To Aru Kagaku no Railgun archived manga discussion

[kache]

Finally caught up.

Spoiler for GUTS!:

GUNHAAAAAAA!!!!!!

[Shinhwa]

Originally Posted by kache

Finally caught up.

Spoiler for GUTS!:

GUNHAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Oh please, Touma is full of Guts too! XD

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

Umm yes please, but please do so in the LN thread since it Railgun hasn't even come close to this area.

Sure thing

Originally Posted by Shinhwa

Oh please, Touma is full of Guts too! XD

Hey, I am full of guts too! Intestines, liver, pancreas, colon...

[Shinhwa]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Sure thing


Hey, I am full of guts too! Intestines, liver, pancreas, colon...

I didn't mean it that way!!! DX

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Hey, I am full of guts too! Intestines, liver, pancreas, colon...

Post of the year.

[Sasukeuzi]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Hey, I am full of guts too! Intestines, liver, pancreas, colon...

Can your guts be used to crash through walls and hit lightning to the ground?!

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Sasukeuzi

Can your guts be used to crash through walls and hit lightning to the ground?!

Post of the year No.2. This one tore my sides and guts.

[alexandros_19]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Sure thing


Hey, I am full of guts too! Intestines, liver, pancreas, colon...

What a disgusting show of guts.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by Shinhwa

I didn't mean it that way!!! DX

Of course...
That's what I want you to think...

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Post of the year.

My, thank you, always doing my best to satisfy my audience

Originally Posted by Sasukeuzi

Can your guts be used to crash through walls and hit lightning to the ground?!

Yours don't allow that?

Originally Posted by alexandros_19

What an disgusting amazing show of guts.

I think you made a typo, fixed it for you

[Reality_Breaker]

Originally Posted by Sasukeuzi

Can your guts be used to crash through walls and hit lightning to the ground?!

And here I thought everyone's did, excuse me while I go check with my doctor.

[Nym]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Sure thing

Hmm ... while its true that his precognition has nothing to do with esper powers, it is wrong that he has no esper powers at all.

It is often mentioned in the novels that it is impossible for anyone to not develope any powers after the curricullum they went through in AC. Even lvl zeros have a kind of power inside them, while not being strong enough themselves or the power not being developed enough to use them (as we can see in the Level upper arc with Saten.) Touma even mocks himselfas a failure one or two times because of that.

A lot of people are actually expecting him to HAVE some kind of power, be it lvl 0-3 or yeah even lvl 4-5, its just that his arm is cancelling it out instantely so he cant use it himself nor does AC have the chance to detect a power in him with their machines.

so if he should ever lose his arm for a longer time and the invisible power that resides inside him does not restrict supernatural things anymore, then it may as well be possible that he has some kind of esper power of an unknown lvl.

I guess the only one who would know it for sure is aleister with a certain list. (and even for him that might be an unknown factor since we dont know how they get the data for the list. Toumas amount of power or rather lack of power is a mysterie in itself....poor, unlucky guy =( )

[Bakaizer]

how was touma determined to be level 0 and what was the basis?

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by nikohowell

how was touma determined to be level 0 and what was the basis?

because tests showed that where other espers showed some signs of psychic power, even other level 0's showed trace amounts of AIM fields, Touma shows nothing. While he may in reality be a level 5 esper that is canceling his own power, nothing shows on tests so that makes him a level 0. As he puts it the lowest of the level 0's.

[desrtsku]

^ What makes an AC esper in general is their ability to substantially change reality by mere observation of their environment (on the quantum level).
But what makes a high level esper is the ability to expand and control those changes using various equations and great computing power.
And IB just cancels the changes in the environment, it's doesn't nerf people's brains.

That is the reason why Touma can't be a level 4+. His brain's feats aren't just on par with that of high level AC espers ... he can barely solve the problems in his highschool level homework.

But that's because of his misfortune, he's too busy fighting LV.5s and magicians to study

Meanwhile, Saiai can solve top class mathematical problems -that requires expertise in weapons and computer simulations- on the fly ... and she's a 12 years-old full time gangster who doesn't even attend classes.

[Reality_Breaker]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

^ What makes an AC esper in general is their ability to substantially change reality by mere observation of their environment (on the quantum level).
But what makes a high level esper is the ability to expand and control those changes using various equations and great computing power.
And IB just cancels the changes in the environment, it's doesn't nerf people's brains.

That is the reason why Touma can't be a level 4+. His brain's feats aren't just on par with that of high level AC espers ... he can barely solve the problems in his highschool level homework.

Meanwhile, Saiai can solve top class mathematical problems -that requires expertise in weapons and computer simulations- on the fly ... and she's a 12 years-old full time gangster who doesn't even attend classes.

What about all of his fights against magicians and espers where he has limited info on their abilities? What about all of the times he had to improvise in the middle of fights that could have killed him in less then a second if they wanted?

The kind of calculations he has to make in the middle of his fights almost everyday put him (and this was said in Vol. 20 I think) on the same level as the level 5 of AC. From what I know when it comes to school it was never said he was failing because he wasn't smart only that his missing school and him not being able to use any abilities even while being in the curriculum were the reasons he was always at risk of failing, that's why he needs extra-assignments, you know which he can't do because he's always either saving the world, the city or a girl.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Reality_Breaker

What about all of his fights against magicians and espers where he has limited info on their abilities? What about all of the times he had to improvise in the middle of fights that could have killed him in less then a second if they wanted?

Quick witted =/= having a powerful brain.

Originally Posted by Reality_Breaker

The kind of calculations he has to make in the middle of his fights almost everyday put him (and this was said in Vol. 20 I think) on the same level as the level 5 of AC.

Please, now that's just plain ridiculous.
Do you resolve some college level equation in your head before you dodge an attack?
No, you don't.

Do you use some super high computation ability when you try to guess your opponent's next move when you play a fighting game?
No, you don't.

It's called priming, it's about gaining experience and being able to react automatically to certain stimuli. It has no direct correlation with how high your computation power is.

Originally Posted by Reality_Breaker

From what I know when it comes to school it was never said he was failing because he wasn't smart only that his missing school and him not being able to use any abilities even while being in the curriculum were the reasons he was always at risk of failing, that's why he needs extra-assignments, you know which he can't do because he's always either saving the world, the city or a girl.

I already said it in my post, Saiai doesn't attend school and she's a freaking genius. Touma isn't a genius with powerful computation abilities, it's fact.

[dKmps]

Also, I think it was in vol.7, that Touma ask Mikoto for help to study xd (is mentioned only)

[Nym]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

^ What makes an AC esper in general is their ability to substantially change reality by mere observation of their environment (on the quantum level).
But what makes a high level esper is the ability to expand and control those changes using various equations and great computing power.
And IB just cancels the changes in the environment, it's doesn't nerf people's brains.

That is the reason why Touma can't be a level 4+. His brain's feats aren't just on par with that of high level AC espers ... he can barely solve the problems in his highschool level homework.

Meanwhile, Saiai can solve top class mathematical problems -that requires expertise in weapons and computer simulations- on the fly ... and she's a 12 years-old full time gangster who doesn't even attend classes.

Very nice. I really really like the way you put that. Never thought about it that way. It really is true. Most of the lvl 4 and nearly all of the lvl 5 esper (except for gunha who is...well...different and maybe Misaki (whom we dont know alot about except that she has top scores in every test but is lazy and would surely cheat with her powers to achieve those scores) are really geniuses.

But on the other hand we have to ask the question...did their personal reality change because they were so intelligent and could grasp the concepts of what you described....or did the possibility of being able to alter the world to their liking in a kind of way (be it level 3,4 or 5) play a thing in their way of understanding, leading to a way to obtain great knowledge? Would have, for example Touma (or any other lvl zero) have a higher chance to become clever if the person would be at least somewhat able to use their powers? And what if Aogami really IS the last lvl 5? he always seemed kind of stupid, didnt he?

Or easier put: did they reach great power through intelligence or did they reach great intelligence through the input of great power?

To be honest iam really sure your explanation is right and it is the former but it is a nice thing to think about.

[SilverTalon]

Originally Posted by Reality_Breaker

The kind of calculations he has to make in the middle of his fights almost everyday put him (and this was said in Vol. 20 I think) on the same level as the level 5 of AC. From what I know when it comes to school it was never said he was failing because he wasn't smart only that his missing school and him not being able to use any abilities even while being in the curriculum were the reasons he was always at risk of failing, that's why he needs extra-assignments, you know which he can't do because he's always either saving the world, the city or a girl.

Wasn't it also said in vol 20 (or maybe it was in nt 7) that his precognition isn't something he thinks about and if he really stopped to think about it, it would fail. Clearly sounds intuitive to me and not calculative.

He was taking make up classes due to attendance iirc, but a middle schooler solved his homework problems effortlessly. In fact it was said that this specific middle school actually teaches college level classes. So no matter how smart he would be if compared to people outside AC, he clearly is no where near the top of AC academically. Also, I don't think that level has anything to do with passing your classes.

Originally Posted by Nym

Or easier put: did they reach great power through intelligence or did they reach great intelligence through the input of great power?

I don't think theres enough information to say conclusively, but I'd guess its sort of both. Something like potential for power is somewhat predetermined but you need the calculation ability to reach that potential. So I'd guess it isn't one causing the other but one thing you start with that appears to grow with the second because the second thing is required to utilize the first. I could be off, but if it is that way, the paramater list makes sense in that they want to use resources on the people they know to have high potential to help them reach it. For example, they clearly knew Mikoto would reach level 5 or asking for her DNA when she was that young would be stupid.

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by SilverTalon

He was taking make up classes due to attendance iirc, but a middle schooler solved his homework problems effortlessly. In fact it was said that this specific middle school actually teaches college level classes. So no matter how smart he would be if compared to people outside AC, he clearly is no where near the top of AC academically. Also, I don't think that level has anything to do with passing your classes.

That was Mikoto, pretty sure. Referencing the Fake date, I believe.