2013-11-28, 18:53 | Link #41 |
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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I'm still not sure what his original plan was. He had no idea Kabuto would recreate him with a younger, stronger body than he ever had before, so he was going to have Obito revive his old broken one?
A plus about this though is that Madara won't throw around wasteful jutsu now, and will be far more focussed than he was before, given that he only really took hits before from techniques he never feared could cause him a problem. He never seemed too fussed that he was pinned down by Hashirama either, and was probably still playing around to keep him distracted whilst everyone else took on Obito. Now we'll really see what he is truly about. There's probably more to the rinnegan than we currently know as well, and there may have been more on that Uchiha tablet than he has currently disclosed.
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2013-11-28, 20:35 | Link #42 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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as we saw with edo-nagato, the rinnegan has a chakra absorption tech that restores youth and health to the user. madara was probably planning on using that after he got rinne tensei'd.. but that begs the question why he didn't just use that in the first place instead of giving his eyes to nagato
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2013-11-28, 20:53 | Link #43 | |
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Join Date: May 2013
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Eventually, Obito went to the Hidden Rain village to retrieve Nagato's Rinnegan for himself. At that rate, he could rely on himself to be the Juubi's Jinchuuriki and reviving Madara would be unnecessary. Or perhaps Obito still believed that Madara was essential and planned to revive him as a back-up plan of some sort. What he thought at the time does not matter because Kabuto gave Obito quite a shock by revealing that he had revived a younger Madara with the ability to use Mokuton. Obito got one-upped, but it was an advantage. An invincible, and controllable, Madara at his peak performance level revived from a jutsu with no drawbacks. Unfortunately, the controllable aspect did not last when Kabuto lost to Itachi. So that's how things happened. Nagato and Kabuto ruined the original plan, but Madara found a way out. |
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2013-11-29, 08:15 | Link #44 | ||
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I get the plan, I just don't see how it would work well because... Quote:
*edit* Which is what makes me think there may be more to the rinnegan than we currently know.
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2013-11-29, 11:22 | Link #45 | |
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Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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When Madara met Obito he reformulated his original plan to include Obito. I guess he realized that he could make of Obito a great asset. But he had the risk that Obito will not execute his plan so he implanted black zetsu to gain control over Obito if necessary. And of course both the original and new plan must be working without Madara's precence, because he is dead. The problem is however that in this chapter we see how black zetsu had to be activated manually by Madara, which doesn't make sense since Madara couldn't have predicted that he will be back as an Edo Tensei. And this one seems to be a real plot hole. of course one could say that Madara's new plan included the old plan too, where Nagato is the one who actually resurrects Madara. But even then if Obito doesn't want to resurrect Madara he could do something to Nagato to prevent the resurrection. So the new plan then had to include black Zetsu forcing Madara's will on Obito at any time when Black Zetsu realizes that Obito betrayed Madara. And this actually makes sense, because as we see Black Zetsu was always around Obito, even if it looked like he was Obito's subordinate. And if we look at Obito's apparent crazyness when he calls himself Madara we can also come to the conclusion that Obito wasn't so much crazy as he was acting for Black Zetsu, he was acting the "good guy", so that Black Zetsu would not suspact a betrayal (remember when Obito tells to Zetsu that Nagato betrayed him, as if he himself was Madara, maybe he was just acting for Zetsu). We see that Obito removed Black Zetsu from the real battlefield by sending him to some far away place to fool around with the feudal lords, that could also be to remove B. Zetsu from the scene when he actually begins his betrayal. Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-11-29 at 11:40. |
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2013-11-29, 12:34 | Link #47 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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if it turns out to be random then it will be stupid. as stupid as obito was for believing it to be random and believing madara had nothing to do with him witnessing rin's death |
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2013-11-29, 13:03 | Link #48 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Indeed, it seems more likely to me that Obito falling into Madara's hands was planned. The timing of Rin's death shortly afterwards is way too convenient, and likely something Madara set up to get full control over Obito.
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2013-11-29, 15:18 | Link #49 | |
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Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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Of course Madara could make a plan where he orders Zetsu to keep an eye on the strongest young Uchiha. But Kishi should have at least given us one clue, i didn't see any. If his plan was to have one of these watched guys be heavily wounded AND left to die by his comrades then it was quite a success. The guy had to be heavily wounded in order to be able to implant Zetsu in him, so later he can be controlled. He had to be abandoned by his comrades so that he is likely to fall for Madara's little theories about the evil world. Also the whole thing with Rin might have been Madara's plan too, because he realized that Rin's existence is ruining his plan of controlling Obito. It would make sense. But there wasn't even the slightest hint that it could be Madara's doing. I even checked those chapters for this when they came out and didn't find anything. Maybe i missed something... And of course this plans would have to be all executed by Zetsu, since Madara was about to die and was on life support. But how could Zetsu make all that happen, it seems impossible considering how passive Zetsu was during the whole manga ( crap! i said impossible, when i say that it becomes part of the plot sooner or later ) Also why making a plan that depends on both Nagato and Obito, both being not completely sane mentally, it's much more risky than concentrating only on one. But i guess since crazy plans are the stadard in this manga this could be the case I'm expecting at least one flashback of Madara, what happened after he lost to the 1st and before he died. But right now it does seem that Kishi just wanted the manga to last longer so he attached more and more new characters (Tobi) but couldn't work out some way to perfectly fit the story parts together. And of course the weakest part of the story: Madara somehow implanted his rinnegan eyes into Nagato. Then apparently he abandoned Nagato who almost died many times in his childhood. ( Funny thing Orochi wanted to kill him and his 2 friends, and if that happened then there would be no revival of Madara, no akatsuki to collect tailed beasts, etc. ) So if the eyes are lost because then Madara's plan instantly fails. Therefore if he planned all this with both Nagato and Obito in the plan then its completely idiotic to risk the key to his resurrection by putting both eyes into Nagato. Why not put one into Obito from the start. Then either of them could revive him. That would be a real plan B with Obito. The way Obito approached Nagato so late in the story means that Obito was not in the plan. Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-11-29 at 17:36. |
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2013-11-29, 15:34 | Link #50 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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I don't think Madara planned this all along. His original plan was getting revived by Nagato as a normal human (Not Edo, I think) and then become the host of the Ten Tails. As this failed, he planned to sacrifice Obito to revive him and become the Ten Tails' host but this plan failed again. Now, he is using his last card to do what he wanted in the first place. In comparison to other masterminds, Madara's plans are far from perfect which seems like something good to me. Didn't he also tell the First Hokage he was planning something in case Obito won?
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2013-11-29, 16:27 | Link #51 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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What I don't understand is why Madara's plan is still Tsuki no Me. The whole idea it was based on was that there could never be peace among the nations and that this was the only way to attain some form of peace. But look at the situation now. Ninja from every nation are fighting together, not under the banner of a village, but under the banner of Shinobi. Doesn't this prove that there can be peace? All it took was a common enemy, apparently.
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2013-11-29, 17:02 | Link #52 | |
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Personally, Madara's motives still confuse me. I understand what he is supposedly trying to do, but his attitude in trying to accomplish said goals seems contrary to his actions. You can't go acting like a crazed villain who takes glee in war and fighting and then try and convince others that you are fighting for some form of peace. |
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2013-11-29, 17:45 | Link #53 | |
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Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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What comes to my mind are the really bad action movies: the hero plans to attack and beat the evil army one by one. And you see him fighting the the evil guy while all the others are just running or jumping in the background waiting for their turn So they are not allowed by the plot to attack him all at once, but that doesn't make the hero's plan good |
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2013-11-29, 17:47 | Link #54 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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That's what I thought too, but it does seem like the five Kage have formed a strong bond, and I think if they put some effort into it they could maintain this bond. Hell even Raikage who was determined to kill Sasuke, is now happily fighting alongside him.
I guess for me it's reversed. I'm not surprised about Madara's personality, everyone who ever talked about him spoke of how he wanted war and not peace. What surprises me is that his plan is supposed to be the opposite of that.
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2013-11-30, 02:47 | Link #56 |
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Does anyone else feel like this whole war has felt really chaotic and haphazard? Especially the current fight seems disorganized and random. (The best part of the whole thing has been the brief chapters where Naruto/Sasuke/2ND/4TH were trying different combos on Obito)
I just marathon watched 600 episodes of One Piece and the analogous "big fight" in that series seemed much more cohesive/organized. Spoiler for spoiler:
That might simply be a consequence of animation vs drawings, so maybe this bazillion person fight against obito/madara will be better when animated. What do you guys think? Is this a case of simply too much action to be properly captured in drawings, or is the setup fundamentally poorly thought out? |
2013-11-30, 04:47 | Link #57 | |
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Join Date: May 2003
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Ideally it should even be the seed for his failure, Madara may dream of peace but what he truly yearn for is battle. An illusion world under his command would inevitably fall into violence, chaos and strife. |
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