2008-09-09, 09:24 | Link #2261 | |
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2008-09-09, 09:43 | Link #2262 | |
Gregory House
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2008-09-09, 11:17 | Link #2264 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Montana has been compared to Colorado so it may very well go blue. That said, the polls are in complete disarray currently and those midwest states rarely get polled because nothing interesting comes out of them from regular polling. I'm waiting for Friday-ish until I start pimping statistics and polls again.
In before posting edit: Montana just got very fun. |
2008-09-09, 11:27 | Link #2265 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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This entire election became a personality tug-of-war with the Palin pick, because before then, Obama had McCain decimated on the personality front (Lets face it, McCain is an older gentlemen and delivering a well delivered speech, isn't his strong suit. He's not a gifted orator.). The election only became a personality conflict afterwards because suddenly that status quo was upset. Seriously, before, this election was only a glorified popularity contest. So don't give me that it's the McCain camp that wants this to be all about the personalities, instead of the issues. Because beforehand, playing to the personality advantage over McCain was to the Obama camp's advantage! Now that they've lost that thunder though because of Palin, the Obama camp would like to try and focus on the issues more to deflect that shift, however they still have to focus on attacking Palin because they HAVE to destroy her if they really want any chance to win. On the otherside though, since alot of those attacks are focused on Palin's personality or personal life, then yes there's a focus there since they have to defend against that. |
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2008-09-09, 11:47 | Link #2266 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The poor bastards may have to study Sarkozy's campaign. McCain for "How to be represent change without denying the last few years of his party's dominance", and Obama for "How to attack a woman without looking like a sexist pig".
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2008-09-09, 11:53 | Link #2267 | |
Kuu-chan is hungry
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
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"This election is not about issues," said Davis. "This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates." Anyway, in a war of personalities, McCain has the ultimate trump card of being a POW. It is impossible to smear that and the Obama camp won't try to. Also, while McCain sucks at speeches, he's quite good unscripted settings. Palin also appeals to the "All-American" image. Quite frankly, if it came down to only the issues, McCain/Palin would lose in a landslide. |
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2008-09-09, 12:05 | Link #2268 |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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the best weapon Obama's got for attacking Palin is Hillary Clinton. Ironically Obama's best shot at winning lies with the person he pass over for the vp slot. Bill is going to extract his pound of flesh form Obama for the clinton's help when they have secret meeting on 9/11 in NY.
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2008-09-09, 12:18 | Link #2269 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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All they have to do with Palin is keep hammering on her stated positions and her record on those issues. And... get her into an unscripted debate against Biden where she can't just throw soundbites without challenge.
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2008-09-09, 14:43 | Link #2270 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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On the personality front however, it was defined by Obama in this election, because that's what he's running on. You say that McCain has a trump card in that respect because he was a POW. I say you're wrong, because that has nothing to do with his personality. It's his personal history and it defines a great deal of his character, yes. Personality though, atleast in many a mind is seperate from Character. Character draws a conotation of principles, values and integrity. Whereas Personality tends to draw a conotation of your 'likeability' and appeal to others. As for a landslide election on the issues alone, that's funny. There are plenty of other sources apparently then what you're obviously listening to that believe Obama has been on the defensive for the last five weeks. He's lost his momentum, he's defending his statements and half the time he's slipping even on that, and he's loosing on the issues. There are no more teleprompters from this point on and he sucks at delivering unscripted. But since, I'm obviously an 'ignorant' individual, perhaps you'd care to define those issues for me as you see them, because I personally only thought there were a few big ones in this election. The war, the economy, abortion, foreign affairs, healthcare and taxes. Oh, and energy. Under that context, objectively speaking, I don't think either of them are 'winning' on the issues, unless ofcourse you're bias agrees with one more than the other. Which I believe it does. But since they're virtually tied on the polls, unless you look at the more specific polls, McCain is edging ahead on the 'issues.' Now, personally, I don't care what Obama says about the war. Everyone wants to do this stupid dog and pony show about WMD, the wrong war at the wrong time and Lies, when the reality is clear. We're there now and we have a responsibilty. You want to tell the families of those who have died for that cause that their loved ones sacrafice was all for nothing? I don't! Because that is beyond unforgivable! Oh, and he was against the troop surge, but now he's acknowledged that it worked beyond all expectations... Hmmmm... As for the Economy, if Obama's elected, based on what littled I've learned in Economics 101, and both Micro and Macro Economics on the college level (All of which I got an A+ in, except Mirco... I got an A-), I fully expect our economy to go down the toilet if he's elected (And there are some really fucking smart economist out there who are quaking in their boots aswell). On the issue of abortion, it's not for me to say at this point in my life, though I'm almost certainly not a proponent of partial-birth or post-birth abortions which Obama has supported in the past and has yet to clarrify himself on those issues, but then again I have a different perspective on that then most people. My mother worked for Planned Parenthood as a Woman's Health Practionier with a Masters Degree. No she didn't do abortions or anything like that, but those who were getting them often had to see her beforehand much to her distaste. I've discussed those particular issues with her at graphic length and well, it's more then most people want to even consider on those topics. Foreign Affairs though, look at Obama's reaction to the Georgian cricsis! It took him 9 days to get his response 'just' right! It was like he was actively polling people for the right stance on the issue, and we're suppose to rely on him possibly to answer 'the' phone call at 3 AM where a decision is needed right then and there? -spits- Then what about his proposed Senate Bill to send nearly a TRILLION dollars to the U.N.?! Which is the most corrupt, most worthless organization in the world which isn't intent on doing the United States any favors. Yet he has the gall to talk about our National Debt like he actually cares!? THAT'S NEARLY A TRILLION DOLLARS!!! It would be almost an increase of 10% on the current debt! Has the man actually come out and said, "Oups, my bad, maybe that wasn't such a good idea!" NO! I'll keep our Trillion bucks, thankyou very much! In regards to Healthcare, sure, the system is busted as it is now, but you know, it's funny. For all our intelligence as 'supposedly' great Americans, we can't look at all the other nations in the world that have universal healthcare and realize a very simple fact. It doesn't work! Every nation with it is either cutting back benefits or going bankrupt on those systems! And the quality of the care provide is downright abysmal ontop of all that! I'll agree we need change there, but Obama's idea ain't the ticket! Oh sure, it sounds nice and looks great on paper, but the execution is an entirely different matter. And the notion that simply because were Americans, that we can make it work when others can't is purely delusional. And on the subject of taxes, again, going back to Economics 101. They're both wrong. Now, if McCain came out and said he was going to support tax reform and push for a Flat Tax, I'd be all for that and doing a happy dance (Seriously, as simple as it is, it really does sound interesting in the results. They actually believe it would return more revenue then our current tax system, and tax fraud would become nearly non-existent, because tax would be paid on anything bought and sold). With the current tax system though, raising taxes in an already 'ailing' economy is the epitome of stupidity. Taxing corporations, small businesses and individuals or couples that make over $250,000 is not a ticket for success. These people are the people who create jobs, employ people and spend the most. That said, $250,000 is very arbitrary and rather on the low end of the scale, and yet depending on cost of living, investments and commitments aswell as a number of other factors, that doesn't necessarily mean they're rich. Sure, someone might annually be making more then that, but they might only be living on say $40-60,000. The rest of it can be tied up in the costs of running their bussiness, and that's just 'getting by.' Well! Thankyou Mister Obama, raising their tax rate nearly 20% just put that person out of business and his three employs out of a job! -grins sarcastically with thumbs up- Great job! Yet he has the audacity to talk about 'creating new jobs' and keeping them!? But hey! Obama's now talking about perhaps keeping the tax cuts? Maybe he's wising up! Hmmm... Energy... Well, can we say 'no win situation?' Especially if everyone actually wants to keep the economy going strong durring any transitional period? The inconveinent truth no one in the media wants to acknowledge, is we're STILL going to be using oil 50 years from now at the very least for transportation purposes. There are very few fuel sources that can drive 18-Wheelers or Passenger Jets. Those two means of transportation are virtually the backbone of our economy. Without it, people don't fly and goods don't make it to market. Fuel Cells and Electric just aren't there and they probably won't be for a very long time. Developing all sources of energy is the only option in my mind without coming off as blatantly hipocritcal, because gas is going to continue going up in price, regardless as long as we import. Yet Obama doesn't want to develope Oil or Nuclear. Which I don't get about the nuclear... Europe has massive amounts of nuclear power, and they recyle their nuclear waste! Why can't we? Quote:
Now, the question is, what sources do you go to? And how does their coverage compare to other sources? If it's fairly lopsided then, my question to you, is are you naive enough to believe your voting as an 'informed' voter, or are you nothing more then a talking voterslip that's been influenced to vote the way you will. Oh, absolutely, both Obama and McCain are full of shit. I just think Obama's trying sell us five times as much shit as McCain! As for the Vice Presidential Debates, I'm eagerly looking forward to them! Because Joe Biden is a has-been and a loose cannon. Have you done any research on Sarah Palin? She didn't get where she is on the tailcoats of others. She's a smart, ambitous woman, and said to be a first-rate debater. Now, I will say, I would have loved to have seen a Hillary vs Palin debate... -sigh- I guess I won't be pulling out the popcorn and coke this time around.... |
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2008-09-09, 15:13 | Link #2271 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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@ElldenStorm: Before you go insulting everyone on the thread so easily you should do a bit of history check on what they've had to say in the thread. What I said was that you must using a different set of pipes because you seemed to think the Democrats were not talking about issues. They are and have been - but some news organizations don't see fit to carry that.
I use BBC, PBS and all its investigative elements, NPR, CNN, and online feeds from Reuters and other sources. I have feeds from Europe and Asia just to see what their perspective is. Fox I stopped watching for useful information years ago, but tune occasionally just to see how far into lala-land they are. MSNBC to a large extent just spouts the corporate mantra as does the Wall Street Journal but they're somewhat useful. So.. .get off your high horse before slapping labels around like "talking voterslip" on someone who might have a different perspective than you. I think we can agree that the audience isn't listening at all with the polls splitting 50/50 in which case we're probably going to end up with 4 more years of Bush... McCain, whatever. I've been a Republican for a couple of decades until Bush2 and his pack of .... well, I've stated my position on what the Republican party has become and how they need a LONG time out to re-invent themselves. Defining Biden as a loose cannon may be not-off-the-mark but you err considerably in calling him a has-been given the power he exerts in the Senate. Thank you, I've done considerable research on Palin and the closer I look the farther rightwing she gets. Her own speeches and interviews put her there without any help from the left. Since the Republicans put her up as VP, the nation has not gotten to see a single unscripted word out of her - they want to paint her as "mom and apple pie" running with "Mr. Wrapped in Flag", not running on the opposite side of every issue the majority of women poll as. Your entire response to cors8 was,frankly, contained a lot of insulting language and black'n'white assertions about topics that require a bit more than "econ 101" academic theory or push debatable assessments of the solutions other countries are using. You might take a look at this: http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?...#faq_rules_1_2 if you haven't already.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2008-09-09 at 15:54. |
2008-09-09, 16:21 | Link #2272 | |||||||||||||
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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As for the surge, it didn't work. The reason violence is down in Iraq was the Sunni militias switching sides. They did it before the surge was even thought of. Even if the surge did work, that doesn't mean it was a good idea. It's like a guy who bets his last $50 on a long shot in a horse race. If he wins great, but it was still a bad idea even if it worked out in the end. Saying well everything worked out in the end does not excuse the mistakes made in Iraq. Finally, the Iraqis don't want us there anymore. Hell, even Bushy has finally acknowleded this and is begining to withdraw troops. McCain's position would reverse this. Quote:
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What we should be doing is building more solar, wind, and nuclear plants. Of course there's the issue of money. Raising taxes to cover the costs is one option, but I prefer a more ironic one, sell more coal to China. Of course that won't cover all of it, but it'd help in other areas too and create jobs in some of the poorest parts of the country. Quote:
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If Obama and McCain are both full of shit as you say, why supposrt either of them then? Why not go with a third party candidate? Quote:
Actually I have done research on Sarah Palin, from the looks of it about as much as the McCain vetting commitee did, I googled her name. What I found I didn't like.
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2008-09-09, 16:31 | Link #2273 | ||||
Insane Fangirl
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Home of the 2010 Olympics
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First of all, I'd like to say that I am not American, have no care about what happens to that country, and tend to lean more towards Obama.
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2008-09-09, 16:32 | Link #2274 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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I'll second Vexx's choices of news sources. You can be free to watch any news source you choose, but in all reality the cable news channels get worse and worse every year. The whole media bias thing is overblown half the time, all cable news is biased toward infotainment and useless information cause it can be marketable and entertaining and therefore profitable US broadcast news has always had this problem (all though less so before the 70s and 80s). If your gonna look at mainstream news sources, read the papers. That's really where the news MEAT is at, not tv and definetly not radio.
Debates should be fun. I as of right now don't really care about Russia/Georgia. MAYBE I should but that's something of more immediate importance to the Black Sea states and Europe, average Joe Blow American who doesn't know his history about Slavic states and isn't paying attention to non US coverage of the issue really can't comment with any real wieght on it (I'm one of those americans by the way) cause it's more complicated than what the US media painted it as. Palin yea she seems like a nice lady but this whole coat-tails of VP is overrated isn't it? Like how the Repubs have solidified with social conservatives ralling towards the ticket. Okay that's great, but seriously WHAT WILL BE DONE ABOUT IT. I never got what social conservatives really wanted outside of banning abortion and gay marriage, beyond that I see no real solid issues/arguments from em (those two alone seem iffy to me), let alone anything that can be legislated on. I mean can someone tell me what the far right can really do beyond keeping homosexuals from having civil unions? Quite frankly, the whole culture wars thing is a tired political point cause aside from say child pronography (any sane person would be against that) and certain abortion issues the whole "moral/family values" crock is the biggest bunch of bull I've ever heard pushed into public sphere "debate". |
2008-09-09, 16:41 | Link #2275 | |
Insane Fangirl
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Also, I looked up Sarah Palin, and she really really really doesn't seem like the right person for the job. Seriously: billing the government for you and your families traveling expenses that aren't for work? Ebaying the jet you bought with government money? I don't know, but she seems suspicious...
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2008-09-09, 16:46 | Link #2276 | |
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2008-09-09, 16:54 | Link #2277 | |||
eyewitness
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2008-09-09, 16:58 | Link #2278 | |
Insane Fangirl
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Location: Home of the 2010 Olympics
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http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/gaab3787.doc.htm
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2008-09-09, 17:34 | Link #2280 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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One other factor is that Iraq basically fell out of the news. There are still daily bombings and other events. It is by no means peaceful there. |
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debate, elections, politics, united_states |
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