2010-07-05, 17:25 | Link #2221 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I've reread that part recently... and I don't remember that... maybe something I missed? But I doubt...
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Everyone dies in the Rokkenjima incident, but then all of them are revived in the golden land. And in the golden land there is no need for any love test. Shannon and George, Battler and Beatrice, Jessica and Kanon. In the golden land all the three couples can succeed.
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2010-07-05, 17:44 | Link #2222 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I think I'll try and attempt at an interpretation for the love trial and see if it works
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2010-07-05, 17:51 | Link #2223 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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there's no such a thing as a "full soul" that was lost in the love trial. Actually there isn't a soul that was lost at all. Simply those that were subhuman (Beatrice, Kanon, Shannon) for not having a full soul, battle each other to decide who will remain, that one will take the others' pieces of a whole soul so to reach a full soul, because only a full soul is entitled to love.
By no mean it was ever said that George is furniture, subhuman, or not possessing a full soul.
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2010-07-05, 17:51 | Link #2224 |
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But Eva and Battler were able to locate the gold without killing anyone, and unless someone was killing in retaliation for that, there was no particular reason for anyone to have had to die thereafter. That they did may not even be connected.
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2010-07-05, 17:54 | Link #2225 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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If I were you I'd try to explain the love trial by imagining that Shannon and Kanon are fictional persona of two different real persons.
Trying to deny that those two aren't human is very difficult considering the circumstances.
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2010-07-05, 18:11 | Link #2226 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I think that now the whole thing about Kanon and Shannon being the same person can be elevated at the red truth status. Zepar and Furfur, the brooch are all pointing at the same idea.
About Shannon being also Beatrice , that's questionable... in my opinion it 3 PERSONALITIES are too much. My theory: Kumasawa = Virgilia ( really evident imho ) Genji = Ronove Nanjo = Gaap ( the whole pitfall thing really sounds like drug to me. ) Shannon + Kannon = 1 person And i have the strong feeling that Beatrice = Jessica. Battler loved girls LIKE Jessica but not her specifically. That would be more than enough for Jessica to change into someone else, not necessarily PHISICALLY. |
2010-07-05, 18:14 | Link #2227 |
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I'm still banking on Shkanon being a big troll, because it just comes across as too obvious. It's not red until it's stated in red. Period.
I mean we could argue Gohda not being the killer is pretty much a certainty, and I'd guess it's more likely than not that such is true, but we can't really say that yet.
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2010-07-05, 18:16 | Link #2228 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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To be clear I never said you have kill someone to sell their soul. Kinzo was certainly alive after he found the gold. I didn't say George was subhuman either. I honestly don't where I was going with this the TIP just seemed to fit with the narrative.
If I were to choose people to be representing by partial souls thing though it'd be Shannon = Beatrice and George = Kanon. That way it turns into some sort of love square between Shannon, George, Battler, and Jessica.
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2010-07-05, 18:24 | Link #2229 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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wincest!
Well I guess we are stuck with either that or homosexuals, and both taboo have been broken before. Incidentally George/Kanon would also explain how Kanon escaped from the closed room. And it also explains why George and Shannon marriage proposal means the end of Jessica love dreams. However it doesn't explains how Kanon could be in Rokkenjima when George wasn't around, or how both Kanon and George could be seen by Battler at the same time. Quote:
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2010-07-05, 18:26 | Link #2230 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
We know for a fact that: - One of them is a trap. - They rappresent the two halves of the brooch - Only the WHOLE BROOCH can guarantee LOVE. - Last time the brooch was split in two piece by propouse, Beato didn't grant any wish. ( She made Battler belive she was trolling them, but i think she simple could not do it because Shannon and Kannon cannot both manifest themself together in front of Battler and George. - The Kanon + Jessica couple was the less promising since the first game. - Kanon is the youngest forniture made by Kinzo ( himself or the next head? ) - BATTLER made use of Kanon to escape the logic error. Best idea ever to corner Erika. - A Kanon disguise or Shannon disguise can be possible just for them. |
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2010-07-05, 18:27 | Link #2231 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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In particular about Gohda, I can quite readily imagine him snapping in terror and killing an assailant without realising he's actually dealing a mortal blow. And all that expertise with knives a good cook has to attain in his line of work would naturally work in his favour.
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2010-07-05, 18:29 | Link #2232 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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2010-07-05, 18:32 | Link #2234 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
He also said he doesn't want to give away the answer so easily because he wants Umineko to be a thinking game, and just settling on Shkanon wouldn't accomplish that. So he's either going to leave it open with some hints for it and some hints against it or he's not going to address the issue at all and let the fans decide on what they like. Quote:
I can't help but think this is the way he's going to do it. Choosing "either or" would get himself lynched by his own fans and he'd never sell a game again.
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2010-07-05, 18:34 | Link #2236 | |
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From an author who has made a game of wordplay, misleading scenes, and cryptic interviews, I would say anything that looks like a free hint that explains some fundamental thing in the sixth episode of eight should be scrutinized like the Trojan Horse. Errr, than the Trojan Horse should have been.
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Most of us don't want to believe it because it would torpedo the story, but not everyone (whether they are of the opinion Shkanon is true or false) thinks that would occur. Beware of geeks bearing gifts, I guess I'm saying.
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2010-07-05, 18:36 | Link #2237 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Hints get bigger as the series approaches the end. I mean, we aren't going to argue Ronove isn't Genji because they are both most trusted servants. If we are to believe that Zepur and Furfur are metaworld representations of real people on the island, I could think of no better than Shanon and Kanon.
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2010-07-05, 18:37 | Link #2238 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Ha! Sorry, I know you hate that but let me quote the game:
Quote:
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2010-07-05, 18:38 | Link #2239 |
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Yeah okay so I'll just fall back to the old never-countered standby of it doesn't actually answer anything. That I suppose could work in its favor since revealing it at this stage doesn't affect anything because it doesn't provide any actual answers or explanations.
But it's kind of the big difference between that and other things. The Genji/Ronove and Kumasawa/Virgilia things remain largely inconsequential since so little is developed of their "vessels." Even if true, what exactly does Shkanon do for us? EDIT: If you think "trust" between author and reader in a damn mystery means taking what the author says at face value, you're the one who isn't trusting them. You have to trust the writer to tell you lies knowing you're going to be able to see through them to the truth. Just like you trust the magician is going to trick you, but you let him do it, because that's entertainment.
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2010-07-05, 18:38 | Link #2240 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
Zepar and Furfur fit perfectly as the Shannon/Kannon meta counterpart. What they say probably gives hints about motives, the whydunnit |
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