[Manga] Chapter 416 Discussion

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Freya

No....he's dead. Let him stay dead.

There's no killing the eternal . Itachi could only hope to try and trap him in a Genjutsu seal by some mystic magigy sword but even Orochimaru escaped that as foreshadowed in the snakes getting away.

There's not a thing in the manga that could kill Orochimaru. So they made up some legendary sword used by the strongest technique so far , and that wasn't even enough

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

There's no killing the eternal . Itachi could only hope to try and trap him in a Genjutsu seal by some mystic magigy sword but even Orochimaru escaped that as foreshadowed in the snakes getting away.

There's not a thing in the manga that could kill Orochimaru. So they made up some legendary sword used by the strongest technique so far , and that wasn't even enough

Actually the remaining white snake was swallowed by amaterasu and Oro is in a never ending blissful genjutsu where he rapes Itachi and Sasuke and steals their bodies.

And Kabuto will probably die if he tries to cross Sasuke or Madara, so Oro will never come back and next on the Saanin hit list is Tsunade so sorry Lady Rave but Oro is GONE, G-O-N-E, GONE and he is never coming back, actually I want to see Konan be the one to kill Tsunade all the Saanin so far have been killed by their students.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

The Raikage is an old guy, which means he's going to kick ass (beside the obvious fact that he's a Kage). Because old guys always kick ass, though they usually tend to get taken down eventually in Naruto. So yeah, he's probably going to be a victim for Madara.

It all falls back on that Old saying when it comes to top ranked old men in Manga....."OLD MEN NOT CANNON FODDER!"

[aliasxn]

Originally Posted by Cats

Since all the requirements so far have been somewhat relationship related.

I hope not, sharingan is stupid enough as it is, no more upgrades please.

Originally Posted by Nintendo

its almost like madara doesnt want to destroy the leaf, he keeps on bringing up how itachi didnt want this and how sasuke should follow his path of doing things for the greater good.

it shows madara wants to destroy the leaf, but when hes talking to sasuke its like he doesnt want to destroy it......freakin mind games

It's just like in Devil's Advocate, when the devil keeps tempting Keanu Reeves and at the same time tells him to do the right thing. So when Sasuke finally stops to think about all the questionable choices he's made Madara will just say "Well, I warned you kid"... Brilliant!
I really hope Sasuke is a villain.

[Black-Cat-Sama]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

Sasuke wanted revenge over anything. Which means anything related to his revenge would overpower his desires of whatever is left. Because of that, the moment that his desires on his revenge kicked in, he wanted to leave Konoha. Even after he got rid of Orochimaru, despite the strength he gained, he didn't go back to Konoha.

Yes he is. He is Kishi's secret love/lover.

well once he left he became missing nin and a criminal.. do explain how you expected him to/why he would go back to konoha when he would be just a prisoner.. if anything.

Sasuke is either lying, or taken his emotions back to before. People are acting liek he's gone all homicidal maniac, he said he'd kill people's precious ones so they could feel his pain. (he said to that to kakashi before his Sound 4 assrape...), he seemed pretty serious back then, he probbaly is now. He surely doesnt have an intention to KILL EVERYONE, but most likely kill anyone that has/could have had an effect on his effed up life, and their kids >,> the way i see it, as long as konoha burns and goes into utter chaos, it doesnt matter what else happens... THE WAR BEGINS, also Raikage look's fiendish

[chuckcsf]

all this talk about Sauske, they're all pretty much the same speculations, I am more interested on Naruto's development. I wonder what new jutsu's did he learn or will learn. Will he be able to do the singing genjutsu like the frog couple?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Sasuke didn't go back to Konoha at that point because he hadn't killed Itachi yet.
Why would he return to Konoha BEFORE killing Itachi?

(Somewhat repeating myself, albeit less eloquently, from a recent post.)

The real question is what Sasuke actually gained from leaving Konoha. He, seemingly, learned nothing from Orochimaru (his speed, elemental manipulation, Sharingan advancement, and even Curse Seal advancement could have all been learned in Konoha). Added to that, we know that Kakashi had MS, so it is entirely possible that Sasuke could have gained. Added to that, as we have seen in the current chapter, Sasuke's great powers seem to stem from "the Will of Fire", so running away was actually more harmful to Sasuke's development.

Then again, all of this is a moot point considering the fact that Itachi was never going to kill Sasuke, and as long as Sasuke put up any decent fight (whether with a team or not), I am sure Itachi would have gone through with his plan of staging his death, and I am sure Sasuke could have gained MS without Madara convincing him of Itachi's "sacrifice".

Originally Posted by Black-Cat-Sama

well once he left he became missing nin and a criminal.. do explain how you expected him to/why he would go back to konoha when he would be just a prisoner.. if anything.

Sasuke did not go missing-nin, he has gone rouge. As far as I know he is not considered a criminal or missing, rather he is simply...elsewhere. Political Talk - He went on Long-Term Training Manevours.

[Goshin]

even if he was a "criminal' shounen law says that he would be forgiven

[Black-Cat-Sama]

Originally Posted by james0246

(Somewhat repeating myself, albeit less eloquently, from a recent post.)

The real question is what Sasuke actually gained from leaving Konoha. He, seemingly, learned nothing from Orochimaru (his speed, elemental manipulation, Sharingan advancement, and even Curse Seal advancement could have all been learned in Konoha). Added to that, we know that Kakashi had MS, so it is entirely possible that Sasuke could have gained. Added to that, as we have seen in the current chapter, Sasuke's great powers seem to stem from "the Will of Fire", so running away was actually more harmful to Sasuke's development.

Then again, all of this is a moot point considering the fact that Itachi was never going to kill Sasuke, and as long as Sasuke put up any decent fight (whether with a team or not), I am sure Itachi would have gone through with his plan of staging his death, and I am sure Sasuke could have gained MS without Madara convincing him of Itachi's "sacrifice".




Sasuke did not go missing-nin, he has gone rouge. As far as I know he is not considered a criminal or missing, rather he is simply...elsewhere. Political Talk - He went on Long-Term Training Manevours.

considering we never actually saw HOW he was taught and what went down when he was under orochimaru's wing, it's hard to say he coulda been taught all the things he's good at back in Konoha. and liek you said, we're not sure if Sasuke's MS would have been obtainable under any other standards other than what has happened up to this point. As of now we only know Sasuke left the village, and he's excelled pretty quickly, not much can be said for the people that stayed within the village.

And Sasuke is considered a criminal, he left the village and people were sent to get him back, back then im sure it woulda just been a small talk about what he did, but as now, he's definatel a criminal... he left village without informing anyone, knocked out the one persont hat saw him... and continued on his way to a serious threat to the vilalge (Orochimaru) knowing exactly why Orochi wanted him. and now he's with the S-Class Akatsuki... even in shounen law if he gets forgiven, there will be some kind of epic draw back...he may even become the new outcast of the village if they let him back ...(role reversal with naruto)

and as seen in the Black Book that sai had, a book of people that are threats and must be eliminated, Sasuke was one of them, and you just dont kill people that defected, btu people that defected in order to go to the madman that jsut almost effed up your whole village. ( a Criminal...)

[Fran~]

im gonna lmao when Sasuke gets pwned by the clumsiest ninja ever!

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by james0246

Sasuke did not go missing-nin, he has gone rouge. As far as I know he is not considered a criminal or missing, rather he is simply...elsewhere. Political Talk - He went on Long-Term Training Manevours.

Er you serious? He went to be the student of a Konoha Missing-nin who tried destroying the village and murderer of the former Hokage. Not only that, but he attacked Konoha ninjas, even going as far as to kill them if it weren't for Oro. C'mon, be reasonable.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Black-Cat-Sama

considering we never actually saw HOW he was taught and what went down when he was under orochimaru's wing, it's hard to say he coulda been taught all the things he's good at back in Konoha. and liek you said, we're not sure if Sasuke's MS would have been obtainable under any other standards other than what has happened up to this point. As of now we only know Sasuke left the village, and he's excelled pretty quickly, not much can be said for the people that stayed within the village.

Well, Elemental Manipulation, Genjutsu, Taijutsu, Kenjutsu (maybe not Kenjutsu ), and Ninjutsu could have always been taught to Sasuke in Konoha, even if he clung desperately to revenge in order to force himself to train hard to master these fields. No Kinjutsu have been shown by Sasuke (beside the White Snake abilities, which are now gone), so we are unsure if Sasuke knows any. Again the MS is a possibility, but even if it wasn't, Orochimaru never instructed Sasuke in how to attain the ability, so that is unimportant to the conversation.

And, in the end, even if Sasuke stayed in Konoha, his next encounter with Itachi would have always ended in Itachi's death (since, Itachi would have always sacrificed himself for Sasuke) and possibly Sasuke gaining MS by himself. About the only real difference between Sasuke staying and going was the fact that if Sasuke stayed in Konoha, it is possible that Orochimaru would not have been killed by Itachi. Then again, it is also possible that Deidara or some other Akatsuki member would have killed Orochimaru. Who knows?

You are correct though, it is more possible that Sasuke would have learned under Orochimaru than Konoha, no matter if Orochimaru did not really teach Sasuke anything that he couldn't have learned in Konoha.

Originally Posted by Black-Cat-Sama

and as seen in the Black Book that sai had, a book of people that are threats and must be eliminated, Sasuke was one of them, and you just dont kill people that defected, btu people that defected in order to go to the madman that jsut almost effed up your whole village.

That was a ROOT book, with seemingly nothing to do with the official stance of Konoha.

Originally Posted by Sinaura

Er you serious? He went to be the student of a Konoha Missing-nin who tried destroying the village and murderer of the former Hokage. Not only that, but he attacked Konoha ninjas, even going as far as to kill them if it weren't for Oro. C'mon, be reasonable.

To the best of my knowledge, Sasuke has never be classified as a missing-nin. True, he has declared independece from Konoha, but so far I have not seen anything to indicate that Konoha would not accept him back, which they probably would not if he was classified as a missing-nin.

[Black-Cat-Sama]

Originally Posted by james0246

Well, Elemental Manipulation, Genjutsu, Taijutsu, Kenjutsu (maybe not Kenjutsu ), and Ninjutsu could have always been taught to Sasuke in Konoha, even if he clung desperately to revenge in order to force himself to train hard to master these fields. No Kinjutsu have been shown by Sasuke (beside the White Snake abilities, which are now gone), so we are unsure if Sasuke knows any. Again the MS is a possibility, but even if it wasn't, Orochimaru never instructed Sasuke in how to attain the ability, so that is unimportant to the conversation.

And, in the end, even if Sasuke stayed in Konoha, his next encounter with Itachi would have always ended in Itachi's death (since, Itachi would have always sacrificed himself for Sasuke) and possibly Sasuke gaining MS by himself. About the only real difference between Sasuke staying and going was the fact that if Sasuke stayed in Konoha, it is possible that Orochimaru would not have been killed by Itachi. Then again, it is also possible that Deidara or some other Akatsuki member would have killed Orochimaru. Who knows?

You are correct though, it is more possible that Sasuke would have learned under Orochimaru than Konoha, no matter if Orochimaru did not really teach Sasuke anything that he couldn't have learned in Konoha.



That was a ROOT book, with seemingly nothing to do with the official stance of Konoha.



To the best of my knowledge, Sasuke has never be classified as a missing-nin. True, he has declared independece from Konoha, but so far I have not seen anything to indicate that Konoha would not accept him back, which they probably would not if he was classified as a missing-nin.

yeah ur right, i forgot about the fact that ROOTs book isnt Konoha. but yeah okay we are on the same page , sasuke coulda learned from either side, but the one moment im really thinking of is Sasuke's Manda hijinx, lol even though crazy broken and near impossible, we must thank orochi for sasuke being alive today for everyone to be mad at, (manda...) ah.. and i was just thinking sasuke isnt technically "missing-nin" because he is a friend of naruto who is a friend to the hokage... but i dunno lol maybe ur right >,> sorry for confusion

[james0246]

^LOL, that is true. I completely forgot about summoning. Thanks for the reminder.

And, just to clarify, you are correct, the only reason that Sasuke is not considered a missing-nin, is because of his friendship to Naruto. Without Naruto's involvement, Sasuke would probably be a B to S-class missing-nin.

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by Black-Cat-Sama

well once he left he became missing nin and a criminal.. do explain how you expected him to/why he would go back to konoha when he would be just a prisoner.. if anything.

Considering his best friend happens to have a strong influence on the Hokage...

Originally Posted by Black-Cat-Sama

not much can be said for the people that stayed within the village.

Though most of them haven't been allowed to do much (or in Hinata's case, anything!)...

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by james0246

To the best of my knowledge, Sasuke has never be classified as a missing-nin. True, he has declared independece from Konoha, but so far I have not seen anything to indicate that Konoha would not accept him back, which they probably would not if he was classified as a missing-nin.

He was going to blow up team 7 with his thunder jutsu, that pretty much sums it up. Not to mention that whole Oro thing again. He's also assisting Akatsuki with its goals (the murderers of Asuma and Jiraiyi btw) by capturing the 8 tails, and wanting to waste Konoha's top brass. Don't know about you, but its a tough sell that he's not a missing-nin and that Konoha will readily accept him back.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

He was going to blow up team 7 with his thunder jutsu, that pretty much sums it up. Not to mention that whole Oro thing again. He's also assisting Akatsuki with its goals (the murderers of Asuma and Jiraiyi btw) by capturing the 8 tails, and wanting to waste Konoha's top brass. Don't know about you, but its a tough sell that he's not a missing-nin and that Konoha will readily accept him back.

I never claimed to like it, but, that is the story that Kishimoto is selling us. Sasuke has always (well, at least since Part II) been on the precipice between villainy and heroism, that is why there have been so many debates discussing the morality of his character (Just these last two chapters I have said that if Sasuke helps in the actual extraction, or knows that the extraction will kill HJ, then Sasuke could firmly be described as villainous). He has never killed, only postured, so he cannot truly be said to be a "bad" guy, but he has also hurt Konoha-nin, so he can not be considered a "good" guy. Sasuke is independent and ultimately neutral...currently.

[astayanax]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

He was going to blow up team 7 with his thunder jutsu, that pretty much sums it up.

He wasn't. It was all mind games he was playing with Orochimaru and Kabuto.

Not to mention that whole Oro thing again. He's also assisting Akatsuki with its goals (the murderers of Asuma and Jiraiyi btw) by capturing the 8 tails, and wanting to waste Konoha's top brass. Don't know about you, but its a tough sell that he's not a missing-nin and that Konoha will readily accept him back.

With him assisting Akatsuki now, I agree it is a tall sell; but before he didn't really did anything that would curl Konoha's wrath. Still though, Noone from Konoha should know he is with Akatsuki atm, so they could still be considering him as someone to be 'saved'.

[Rageaholic01]

Originally Posted by james0246

Well, Elemental Manipulation, Genjutsu, Taijutsu, Kenjutsu (maybe not Kenjutsu ), and Ninjutsu could have always been taught to Sasuke in Konoha, even if he clung desperately to revenge in order to force himself to train hard to master these fields. No Kinjutsu have been shown by Sasuke (beside the White Snake abilities, which are now gone), so we are unsure if Sasuke knows any. Again the MS is a possibility, but even if it wasn't, Orochimaru never instructed Sasuke in how to attain the ability, so that is unimportant to the conversation.

And, in the end, even if Sasuke stayed in Konoha, his next encounter with Itachi would have always ended in Itachi's death (since, Itachi would have always sacrificed himself for Sasuke) and possibly Sasuke gaining MS by himself. About the only real difference between Sasuke staying and going was the fact that if Sasuke stayed in Konoha, it is possible that Orochimaru would not have been killed by Itachi. Then again, it is also possible that Deidara or some other Akatsuki member would have killed Orochimaru. Who knows?

You are correct though, it is more possible that Sasuke would have learned under Orochimaru than Konoha, no matter if Orochimaru did not really teach Sasuke anything that he couldn't have learned in Konoha.



That was a ROOT book, with seemingly nothing to do with the official stance of Konoha.



To the best of my knowledge, Sasuke has never be classified as a missing-nin. True, he has declared independece from Konoha, but so far I have not seen anything to indicate that Konoha would not accept him back, which they probably would not if he was classified as a missing-nin.

What's kenjutsu and/or kinjutsu?

[Rahan]

Kenjutsu : sword technique
Kinjutsu : forbidden jutsus.