AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > News & Politics

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2017-11-01, 15:03   Link #13081
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Have you ever talked to an educated Southerner or Texan about the causes of that war and why they think it happened. I am not talked the Podunk hillbilly or rednecks here, I'm talking college educated people, computer programmers, and the like. Oh things get really interesting in those conversations.
I haven't. What's their stance on slavery? Or are they somehow unaware of its role in the civil war? (In which case, how "educated" can they be? I got most of my education on the American Civil War from Les Tuniques Blueues and Abraham Lincoln, Vampire hunter, and even I know slavery was involved.)
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-01, 15:14   Link #13082
Valky
Radioactive
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The Big Durian
I don't think so either.

I think it was mentioned in one of the late shows, what was it, state's right or something like that? Even though the mentioned state's right is actually the right to own a slave. Weird stuff like that from a supposedly "educated" people.
__________________
Valky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-01, 16:14   Link #13083
Ithekro
The Comet has Come
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 40
They pan slavery as an excuse for an excessive increase in power of the federal government over the state governments and the north governments as an act of aggression against the southern states, who they feel had every right to succeed after the supposed breach of contract of the Tenth Amendment as far as the states governments were concerned.

They view it as the balance of power in Congress being tipped by dogmatic abolitionists and industrialists for the gain of the Federal government over the states, and the compromises of 1850 only delayed the conflict for ten years anyway. The conflict over how many representative the southern states had as allies in Congress was in question, as was their numbers in the Senate as California came in as one huge state that broke the Mason-Dixon Line and the balance of power leading to Missouri being above said line in compromise. It played out like a balancing act with the major parties attempting to stay in power, rather than a struggle to liberate slaves.

They see the slavery card as just that, a card played to keep the British and French out of the conflict post-1863, and to get the local slaves to potentially rebel against their masters with "false promises" from the northerners.

The other issue other issue you'll get from a southerner is the occupation afterwards. That truly did go to hell in a handbasket...or carpetbag perhaps would be the better term.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-01, 16:24   Link #13084
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
"Dogmatic abolitionists". That's a good one. As opposed to what, "pragmatic slave owners"? Bitching about the North's "false promises" is another. As if they're concerned about the fate of the poor slaves.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-01, 17:03   Link #13085
Ithekro
The Comet has Come
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 40
Remember, as far as they were concerned, the slaves weren't humans, just backwards godless peoples from Africa. The old Southern line was it best their everyday needs are taken care of on the plantation, rather than doing nothing and dying on their own. Almost like one would say of farm animals.

Remember all those old movies and even cartoon depictions of Africans from the 1870s to the 1930s (some even lasting until the 1960s) of them being lazy, dumb, happy-go-lucky simple people at best. Thieves and rapists or even demons at worst (The Birth of a Nation as an example of this was made in 1915). That was how Africans were seen in stereotype for generations. Prior to the Civil War they were seen as those that should no be without a white master, because otherwise they'd be lost. "What could those godless dark skinned people do really?" It was not a friendly place for an African in North American. A good number of abolitionist just want to liberated them so they could ship them back to Africa an thus be rid of them entirely. A century or more later that would probably be called, "cleaning up the genepool".

History is not clean or friendly. But it does tend to have many points of view.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-01, 17:10   Link #13086
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Remember, as far as they were concerned,
Who's "they"? "Educated people from the South"? Because it's their point of view we were discussing. It's not my intent to judge people from centuries ago by today's standards. But to see people glorifying - or even condoning - slavery today? No, those "educated people" don't get a pass.

Quote:
Remember all those old movies and even cartoon depictions of Africans from the 1870s to the 1930s (some even lasting until the 1960s) of them being lazy, dumb, happy-go-lucky simple people at best. Thieves and rapists or even demons at worst (The Birth of a Nation as an example of this was made in 1915). That was how Africans were seen in stereotype for generations. Prior to the Civil War they were seen as those that should no be without a white master, because otherwise they'd be lost. "What could those godless dark skinned people do really?" It was not a friendly place for an African in North American. A good number of abolitionist just want to liberated them so they could ship them back to Africa an thus be rid of them entirely. A century or more later that would probably be called, "cleaning up the genepool".
While I'll grant that the North wasn't entirely made of angels, I'm still not buying that slavery and the fight to maintain it was at any point for the good of the slaves.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-01, 18:04   Link #13087
Ithekro
The Comet has Come
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 40
"They" as in the slave owners of the time.

As for educated Southerners, remember that as far as they are concerned, slavery is an excuse for Northern Aggression, not the cause of it. The balance of power in Congress had shifted and as far as the Southern States were concerned, the increased power of the Federal Government was a breach of contract on the Constitution and Bill of Rights (Tenth Amendment specifically) thus given them the right to leave the Union. The Northerns then (as far at the South is concerned) invaded, pillaged, burned, and occupied their homeland.

And then set the slaves free just to mess with the locals.

I remind Northerns and Southerners that the West was the cause of that war. The rapid expansion west cause the balance of power in Congress to shift radically as more Free States entered the Union than Slave States. This is shown clearly in the Election of 1860. The election showed a heavy split in the votes, but even with the entire south voting for anyone other than Lincoln, Lincoln became president by Electoral College votes (180 out of 303) and the majority vote (39.8%) over the next highest, ironically the Northern Democrat Stephen Douglas, with only 12 out of 303 and 29.5% of the vote. The Southern Democrat John Breckinridge got the next highest electoral vote with 72 out of 303 votes, but 18.1% of the popular vote, while Constitutional Union party John Bell got 39 out of 303 and 12.6% of the vote. Even with the entire South voting against him, Lincoln won easily. They succeeded before he took office. Not even giving him a chance to make a deal with them.

Without the rapid expansion that balance would have been retained, and slavery, regardless of how terrible it is, wouldn't have cause a war to break out. Not enough people in the North cared about slaves to start a war, and southerns only cared about the balance of power, not what was causing that power to be in question.

This imbalance of power would allow the Northern states to pass just about anything without the South being able to do a damned thing about it. The Northern states held a majority in Congress and if the trend continued, they would hold a supermajority in Congress as soon as enough of the new territories obtained statehood. The only way the Southern states could gain more votes in Congress would be to split up Texas (Senate increase only) and/or start invading Latin America, and the Southerns didn't want to add Catholics to their Protestant country if they could avoid it. Plus aside from Brazil, slavery was being abolished around the world already, and one does not tangle with the Empire of Brazil in the 1860s, they'd have issues with the locals on that issue as well. (There was one more way, which was ironically, to free the slaves and count them as a full person each for the census to increase the state's populations and gain more seats in Congress) So they were basically stuck with a means of livelihood that relied on something that was on the way out in the civilized world, and being made an issue by the Northerners to a point were it might be forced in an heavy handed way. Instead the South decide they would make their own destiny and formed their own country (without the North's blackjack and hookers), and in their minds, make their own way towards the future. The more reasonable seem to think that had the Confederacy been left to its own devices, slavery would have eventually died off within another generation or two like it was heading for in Brazil in the 1880s. The slower transition might have made life better for the present day African Americans as a lot of the segregation and other racist issues into the 20th century were reactionary to reconstruction following the end of the Union occupation of the South as a result of the Election of 1876 and the Compromise of 1877. The backlash pretty much crippled race relations until the Civil Rights Movement effectively restored much of what was lost a century later.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!

Last edited by Ithekro; 2017-11-01 at 18:50.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-02, 01:21   Link #13088
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
"They" as in the slave owners of the time.

As for educated Southerners, remember that as far as they are concerned, slavery is an excuse for Northern Aggression, not the cause of it.
The way I see it, it doesn't matter. It's like a mugger stopped a rapist mid-rape to steal his wallet. And his "educated" descendant are whining the mugger was horrible and build statues of their rapist grandfather.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-04, 21:42   Link #13089
AnimeFan188
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Libyan Comic Con raided by armed militants for ‘attack on Islam
and fascination with foreigners’:


"A comic convention was deemed blasphemous in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, where an
Islamist paramilitary group shut down a gathering of superhero fans for "inciting
violence," detaining and reportedly beating some 20 participants.

The second Libyan Comic Con opened in Tripoli on Thursday, bringing together local
comic book lovers and cosplayers who dressed up as their favorite heroes. The party,
however, was crashed on Friday by the so-called RADA Special Deterrence Forces (SDF)
paramilitary group, which raided the event, detained some 20 people and seized
computers and other equipment."

See:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...-99/ar-AAus5qq
AnimeFan188 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-05, 02:33   Link #13090
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
Osama Bin Laden was an anime fan and played pirated Naruto games
__________________
MrTerrorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-05, 22:43   Link #13091
Cosmic Eagle
西の魔女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Remember, the B on the bootleg Naruto's headband stands for "Boruto's Dad"



Although using a bootleg Kaspersky....do bootleg AV software even work...
__________________

す べ て の 想 い に  巡 り 来 る 祝 福 を
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-05, 23:47   Link #13092
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
Anger over Trump support for coal at UN climate talks

Either they're serious or just a bunch of trolls.
__________________
MrTerrorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-13, 22:53   Link #13093
AnimeFan188
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Japan's Ministry of Defense Discusses Gundam
Realization Projects After 10 Years:


"The Liberal Democratic Party of Japan created a buzz in 2012 after it "seriously
considered" a "Gundam Development Project." Before that, the now-defunct Technical
Research and Development Institute in Japan's Ministry of Defense included a ground
equipment exhibit titled "Towards the Realization of Gundam (Advanced Personal
Equipment System)" in a symposium in 2007. With rumors about the Japan Self-Defense
Forces developing real-world Gundam robots spreading for the past decade, the Oricon
News website decided to investigate the current status of Gundam development
projects."

See:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...-years/.123565
AnimeFan188 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-14, 05:48   Link #13094
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
Cop gives himself a ticket after accidentally parking in handicapped spot

Kinda wish more cops be like this guy.
__________________
MrTerrorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-17, 05:25   Link #13095
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
Germany replaces US as country with best international image

A certain world leader is fuming right now.
__________________
MrTerrorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-17, 05:54   Link #13096
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Germany replaces US as country with best international image

A certain world leader is fuming right now.
"Americans themselves nevertheless viewed their country more positively than in 2016."
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-18, 06:56   Link #13097
Haak
Dehydrated
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 26
Penis In The Sky
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-19, 01:11   Link #13098
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
"Americans themselves nevertheless viewed their country more positively than in 2016."
Makes sense, to some extent.

2016 - America actually elected Agent Orange.
2017 - America confirmed checks and balances aren't entirely broken
GDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-19, 19:24   Link #13099
AnimeFan188
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Archaeologists find mysterious, 4,000-year-old
dog sacrifices in Russia:


"Ancient structure full of charred dog bones points to a ritual related to werewolf myths."

See:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...ces-in-russia/
AnimeFan188 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
humor, news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.