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Old Today, 04:07   Link #8901
TommyG
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Join Date: Aug 2018
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He already had an affiliation with her, Dulio, Vali and Issei. Since Vali and Issei are the heavenly dragons it would be pointless to join their teams and Dulio's team is entirely angels, that leaves Rias.
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Old Today, 04:09   Link #8902
Lucidrago
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Typhon, Mahabali, Indra, Surtr, etc. There were tons of teams to choose from. Rias made a deal with him to have him join her team. That's quite a talent of hers.
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Old Today, 04:13   Link #8903
TommyG
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Not really, offering someone something they want and them saying yes isn't really a talent. Convincing Strada to come out of retirement and serve on a devils team takes talent but offering a battle maniac who wants to fight the heavenly dragons a chance to fight the heavenly dragons is like offering an alcoholic a drink. Takes no effort or skill.
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Old Today, 04:46   Link #8904
aw454wtr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidrago View Post
Typhon, Mahabali, Indra, Surtr, etc. There were tons of teams to choose from. Rias made a deal with him to have him join her team. That's quite a talent of hers.
Typhon team probably had no place left after all the gods are taken into account

I seriously doubt the others would trust an evil dragon in their team
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Old Today, 04:53   Link #8905
Lex79
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Originally Posted by syzorst View Post
Which do you think is better. Rias ability to gather talent and strong people under her or Issei's ability to attract irregularities.
Issei's ability made him befriend two Dragon gods. There is no contest.
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Old Today, 06:38   Link #8906
syzorst
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Originally Posted by Lex79 View Post
Issei's ability made him befriend two Dragon gods. There is no contest.
But he also attracted Trihexa which is bad. Issei's ability can be considered a blessing and a curse. He attracts powerful irregularities that can be friends or enemies. The reason I made the comparison is because while Issei does attract more powerful beings it could be friend or foe. Where as to Rias, her ability to gather powerful people under her speaks volumes to her enemies or allies.

A quote from volume 24:

[As comrades, they’re worth boasting about, but as opponent’s, it’s rather scary.”

That was absolutely true. From our normal point of view, we felt rather impressed by Rias’ negotiation skills, but in terms of the World Tournament, it was quite terrifying.]
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Old Today, 06:46   Link #8907
TommyG
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Rias doesn't really seem to attract strong people more as she attracts people with a lot of potential and they grow into their power. Yuuto under her got his sword of the betrayer, Issei got his Crimson queen, Asia reached her balance breaker, koneko got her Shirone mode. Issei seems to attract powerful people but Rias seems to make people powerful.
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Old Today, 06:50   Link #8908
Blazor 98
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Originally Posted by TommyG View Post
Not really, offering someone something they want and them saying yes isn't really a talent. Convincing Strada to come out of retirement and serve on a devils team takes talent but offering a battle maniac who wants to fight the heavenly dragons a chance to fight the heavenly dragons is like offering an alcoholic a drink. Takes no effort or skill.
I think the point Lucidrago is making is the fact that Rias was able receive Crom's loyalty which takes talent. Evil Dragons are not exactly beings that can be trusted. Crom left Rizevim and Apophis and Azi Dahaka betrayed Rizevim. We've already seen that Crom is wild card that comes and goes as he pleases. We saw that he left Rizevim when he had enough of him and even though Crom's purpose of being on Rias team is just for the tournament, he's help out in situations that doesn't involve the tournament. For example, he help to get rid of the Grim Reapers in Volume 24 when he didn't have to. Also in the game between Rias and Vali, we saw that he was guarding Rias when he could've just left her and gone straight for Vali.
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Old Today, 07:59   Link #8909
Lex79
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Originally Posted by syzorst View Post
But he also attracted Trihexa which is bad. Issei's ability can be considered a blessing and a curse. He attracts powerful irregularities that can be friends or enemies. The reason I made the comparison is because while Issei does attract more powerful beings it could be friend or foe. Where as to Rias, her ability to gather powerful people under her speaks volumes to her enemies or allies.

A quote from volume 24:

[As comrades, they’re worth boasting about, but as opponent’s, it’s rather scary.”

That was absolutely true. From our normal point of view, we felt rather impressed by Rias’ negotiation skills, but in terms of the World Tournament, it was quite terrifying.]
I was thinking mostly in term of the potential of the ability, but it's true that Rias talent is safer while still very useful.
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Old Today, 09:14   Link #8910
Lucidrago
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Rias gathers those who are abnormally powerful under her and gets them to work under her. Issei just attracts abnormalities(that includes his clients for his devil job).

Issei just draws them to him. Rias is able to bring powerful people under her and convince them to join her. I would say her talent for that surpasses Issei's. Because Issei has a powerful dragon residing within his Boosted Gear and has the Power of the two most powerful dragons within his body and dragons are embodiments of power and power attracts power. So while Issei is clearly abnormal in that sense, It can be logically explained.

While Rias' talent for gathering monsters under her is just abnormal in every sense and really can't be logically explained. Sirzechs has monsters in his peerage but Rias is on a whole other level. And she's not even a Super Devil like her brother or even a Super Devil candidate and yet she has people like Issei, Gasper, and Kiba in her peerage. That's definitely not normal.
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Old Today, 09:22   Link #8911
TommyG
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Issei, Gasper and Yuuto were all reincarnated after death, it's not like she talked them into serving her. The most significant person she's talked into serving her would be Strada, Issei may attract more significant people because he's a dragon but the original question was what's better Rias' abilities to gather strength or Issei's abilities to attract abnormalities, Issei's abilities are superior.
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Old Today, 09:30   Link #8912
Blazor 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidrago View Post
Rias gathers those who are abnormally powerful under her and gets them to work under her. Issei just attracts abnormalities(that includes his clients for his devil job).

Issei just draws them to him. Rias is able to bring powerful people under her and convince them to join her. I would say her talent for that surpasses Issei's. Because Issei has a powerful dragon residing within his Boosted Gear and has the Power of the two most powerful dragons within his body and dragons are embodiments of power and power attracts power. So while Issei is clearly abnormal in that sense, It can be logically explained.

While Rias' talent for gathering monsters under her is just abnormal in every sense and really can't be logically explained. Sirzechs has monsters in his peerage but Rias is on a whole other level. And she's not even a Super Devil like her brother or even a Super Devil candidate and yet she has people like Issei, Gasper, and Kiba in her peerage. That's definitely not normal.
I wouldn't say Rias talent surpasses Issei's ability to attract irregularities. Not in the slightest. Now you say Rias brought powerful beings under her despite being weaker but the same applies to Issei but on a more grander scale. The fact he was able to attract Great Red himself despite being on the verge of death is beyond anything Rias talent is concerned. Not even Vali is able to attract Great Red despite his goal is beating Great Red.

Furthermore, Issei was able to befriend Ophis and Lilith which is also beyond absurd consider that everyone in the Gremory group saw them to be too dangerous. Then you have Ingvild who is an irregular existence similar to Vali. A Longinus user who is also a Maou descendant. And just so happen to have a high tier Longinus at that. To which Issei was able to make her his queen.

Now you can say Issei's ability stems from power attracts power but never on this grand scale. This the guy who known for creating miracles afterall.
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Old Today, 09:41   Link #8913
syzorst
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Originally Posted by TommyG View Post
Issei, Gasper and Yuuto were all reincarnated after death, it's not like she talked them into serving her. The most significant person she's talked into serving her would be Strada, Issei may attract more significant people because he's a dragon but the original question was what's better Rias' abilities to gather strength or Issei's abilities to attract abnormalities, Issei's abilities are superior.
In a way she did talk them into serving her. In volume 1, Issei was sceptical about the idea of being a devil but changed his mind when Rias used devil's whisper about having a harem. Volume 1:

["Could you please stop talking like this is a recruiting commercial!? But are you serious? I still can’t believe it.”

Senpai starts whispering into my ears while I'm complaining.

Her crimson hair smells so nice. It feels like my brain will paralysed. Oh, is this also demonic power?

“By the way, you might be able to start a life where you can become popular with girls you know?”

—!

Those words started going around my mind.

“How!?”

Words came out of my mouth before I tried to think about it.

My perverted guts, it’s quite remarkable if it’s this bad.]

In the case of Kiba and Gasper, she gave them a purpose and reason to live since they were outcast. The same goes for Akeno as well. The only people Rias didn't convince to join was Asia and Xenovia because they joined due to Issei's influence. Which is why when Issei became independent, they chose to follow him.
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Old Today, 09:46   Link #8914
TommyG
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If she'd talked them into joining that be one thing but essentially all she did was settle their nerves. Also just thinking about it Yuuto really wasn't that special to begin with. I know he had 2 sacred gears but he wasn't a natural holy sword wielder so that means his subspecies balance breaker and one of his sacred gears were entirely useless to him.
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Old Today, 10:30   Link #8915
Jedsada
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Rias's negotiation skills and Issei's charisma have their own strengths and limitations. Rias's skills won't be effective in some non-negotiable situations (e.g. when the person demand something that she cannot fulfill), while Issei can hardly select the type of persons that come close to him. When it come to the personnel recruitment, Rias's method is effective mostly in the short-term (Both Strada and Crom Cruach will leave after the tournament), while Issei's charm can result in the long-term relationship (Bova, Ouryuu, Roygun and Elmenhilde are likely to continue working under Issei).

P.S. In my opinion, Issei's charisma indicates his potential as a leader which may be even greater than Rias herself. Sirzech, Azazel and others also want Issei to succeed one of the seat of the new Great Satans System, while mention nothing about Rias.
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Old Today, 11:40   Link #8916
Tyler.R
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I think the reasons why they want Issei to become a maou is because of he is a potential super devil as well as his popularity not only in the underworld but across all the different factions
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Old Today, 13:30   Link #8917
TommyG
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Something always felt a little off to me, I'm not sure how old Katerea, Shalba and Creuserey were but they were all pureblooded and I assume were somewhere inbetween Rizevim's sons age and Vali's age. Vali was the only Maou descendant who wasn't pureblooded and given that the old maou faction held purity in high regard it seems odd to me that Rizevim would kill his son when only a half blood is left as heir. Do you think it's possible Rizevim or his son had a pureblooded child we have yet to meet? Would the leader of the old maou faction really be comfortable with no pure heirs?
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Old Today, 15:30   Link #8918
Emperor of D.
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Originally Posted by TommyG View Post
Something always felt a little off to me, I'm not sure how old Katerea, Shalba and Creuserey were but they were all pureblooded and I assume were somewhere inbetween Rizevim's sons age and Vali's age. Vali was the only Maou descendant who wasn't pureblooded and given that the old maou faction held purity in high regard it seems odd to me that Rizevim would kill his son when only a half blood is left as heir. Do you think it's possible Rizevim or his son had a pureblooded child we have yet to meet? Would the leader of the old maou faction really be comfortable with no pure heirs?
The thing is Rizevim didn't care much about that.
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Old Today, 15:32   Link #8919
Lord Kai
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Is Strada joining Rias team any bigger of a surprise that Irina joining Issei's team? Many people say it is but I don't see much of a big deal when looking at the circumstances of both characters.
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Old Today, 15:38   Link #8920
TommyG
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The son of the leader of an underworld that believed in purity didn't care about a half blood heir?
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