AnimeSuki Forums

Haak · 2011-09-20, 09:03

I don't know how to measure military strength so I don't know. I just assumed that Israel had a stronger military than most of the middle east countries combined due to the results of the previous wars (at least when the US helps) even though it could've gone both ways in 1973. I'm sure the US would help. Isn't it like, law for them to do so now?

Besides the muslim countries are too busy hating each other and cracking down revolutions to unite against Israel. I heard that during the Egyptian revolution, anti-Israeli sentiment was stirred up by the government but they still protested anyway. And I think the anti-Israel propaganda is just rhetoric and the actual governments aren't really gonna help the palestians anymore. At least that's the impression I got with reading about their history after the Camp David accords.

As for Jeruselum I do agree that none of them should have it but I think the best apporach would be to give it to the UN, not kill everyone or destroy buildings.

Ithekro · 2011-09-20, 09:04

It is hard for Arabs to be anti-semitic, since they are semites, just like the Jews.

Just putting that out there.

SaintessHeart · 2011-09-20, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

It is hard for Arabs to be anti-semitic, since they are semites, just like the Jews.

Just putting that out there.

But they are putting themselves as Muslims first. They are semites, but most of them no longer worship Horus or Ra anymore.

Haak · 2011-09-20, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

It is hard for Arabs to be anti-semitic, since they are semites, just like the Jews.

Just putting that out there.

Lawl. I thought anti-semitism was more idiomatic in it's meaning these days.

biodude711 · 2011-09-20, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

But they are putting themselves as Muslims first. They are semites, but most of them no longer worship Horus or Ra anymore.

However, Muslims are semites, just like the Hebrews and the Christians.

Ithekro · 2011-09-20, 09:13

The problem with the Camp David accords now is that the Islamic countries governments are changing. Most have no reason to follow the accords anymore (Turkey was an ally of Israel in the Cold War because it meant US friendship against the Soviet Union, which was on the Turkish border....Israel isn't on that border. Today Turkey has no reason to be friendly with Israel...there is no Soviet Union and friendship with the US isn't a priority due to NATO and the EU. Jordan remains friendly-ish because they like being freinds with the United States (the new King is a huge Star Trek fan), but Egypt is gettting hostile again if they new government doesn't maintian the peace, or Israel does somethig stupid again. Saudi Arabia does their own thing. Syria and Lebennon have no love for Israel, but have their own problems currently. Iraq is currently a non-issue politically. Iran has been war drumming for a decade or more against Israel and the US...and who knows what they will do if given the chance.

SaintessHeart · 2011-09-20, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by biodude711

However, Muslims are semites, just like the Hebrews and the Christians.

But they are putting themselves as Muslims first, regardless of where they originate from.

Technically speaking, it is some sort of hypocrisy if an Arab claims to be anti-semite but doesn't hate himself.

Ithekro · 2011-09-20, 09:18

Semite is a language family by the way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages

It also include Ethiopians

**Solace** · 2011-09-20, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Alternatively, after levelling those religious buildings, construct a holy building made to worship magical girls. Feminists around the world would stop complaining immediately, and it would certainly be filled everyday with worshippers.

I'm good with this solution.

I'm aware of the religious slant to all of this, but no solution is an easy one because each feels they must control it. Ideally it would be best to simply make it a neutral area, but there's no way that would fly. They'd never agree on who would be the neutral party.

biodude711 · 2011-09-20, 09:36

In other news,

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy banning gays in the US Military ends

ganbaru · 2011-09-20, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Alternatively, after levelling those religious buildings, construct a holy building made to worship magical girls. Feminists around the world would stop complaining immediately, and it would certainly be filled everyday with worshippers.

First you will need a Holy Book and a Messian to start the cult

bladeofdarkness · 2011-09-20, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

As for Jeruselum I do agree that none of them should have it but I think the best apporach would be to give it to the UN, not kill everyone or destroy buildings.

why should the U.N have it ?

saying "neither side deserves to have it, is one thing, but it doesn't explain why the U.N deserves to have it.

Haak · 2011-09-20, 10:27

For lack of a better alternative? If you can think of a better neutral party then be my guest. Besides corpus separatum was meant to be the original plan.

bladeofdarkness · 2011-09-20, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

For lack of a better alternative. If you can think of a better neutral party then be my guest. Besides corpus separatum was meant to be the original plan.

and there, in two words, is where you and i completely disagree.
and for the record, search the meaning of the words below my avatar (which have been there for months, not just changed for this discussion) to understand the position of the U.N in the eyes of most Israelis (and i do mean MOST, like over 80%)

bladeofdarkness · 2011-09-20, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

I'm well aware of that already (though I can't say I'm finding much about "GNR")

galaxy news radio

and my point was that the U.N isn't neutral
its a kangaroo court

Ithekro · 2011-09-20, 11:25

Be that as it may, the UN is the only international body that is viable as a caretaker for a city that would otherwise be fought over or destroyed. It does have representation by all the religions involved in the region.

It is better than a King Solomon-like "glass it with atomic fire" option, don't you think?

ganbaru · 2011-09-20, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Be that as it may, the UN is the only international body that is viable as a caretaker for a city that would otherwise be fought over or destroyed.

It is better than a King Solomon-like "glass it with atomic fire" option, don't you think?

''King Solomon-like'' would be to cut it in half, not to erace it.

Ithekro · 2011-09-20, 11:31

Cutting a baby in half destroys it, remember, as it would be dead. You can cut a city in half with atomic weapons, but the city is just as dead.

bladeofdarkness · 2011-09-20, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

is viable as a caretaker for a city that would otherwise be fought over or destroyed.

who's fighting over it today ?
last i checked, under Israeli control all religions have control over their own holy sites. you know, unlike the way it was when the city WAS divided.
and i categorically reject the premise that the eventual result of the fighting would result in the city being destroyed.
its blatantly absurd to assume that anyone would destroy that which they fight over.

besides.
the Vatican for Christians, and Mecca for Muslims.
why should the Jews be denied control their own holy city.

Ithekro · 2011-09-20, 11:56

Yet it seems to remain a main issue stopping the peace process. The Christians aren't fighting for it anymore, but always seem concerned about its safty. The Muslims (well Palestinians at least) want it as their capital as well since it is also in the West Bank area, and if I recall there is still a dispute over the treaty terms from 1967. Also remember that there are a lot of crazies out there that believe the whole 2012 world ending nonsense. They will try to make the world end...and one of the main features for that ending is Jeruselem.

Mind you that the Vatican and Mecca are second choices for holy cities. Jeruselem was always the first choice it seems. Both were picked because Jeruselem was out of reach, or overly violent when the choice was made.

What I am surprised about, it why didn't Israel just take over the whole place when it had the opportunity. Drive them off the lands and claim it in full rather than the occupied state you all left it in. By the time you started with the settlements in the West Bank it was too late. By then you were negotiating with the Palestinians rather than driving them out. By then you have the United States and everyone else poking around. You won a Six Day War, but didn't capitalize on it. Now you have this mess that looks like it is about to blow up (again) in your faces, and the rest of the world (US included) looks like it is far beyond ready to just let Israel fall this time around (even though the world had very little to nothing to do with any of Israel's victories in the last several wars).

I respect Israel for its ability to win and defend itself. But its policy shifts and seeming (at least from some news sources) suggested racial superiority, are rubbing that respect the wrong way. Either do it or don't do it...this halfway nonsense is making things worse for both sides. Make a deal or cast them out....leaving them as the occupied party just invites more violence in the long term. Be the caring neighbor or the conquorer...don't be the idiot politician or scumbag hood that tried to get rich on the backs of your own and your enemies.

2011-09-20, 09:03	Link #16641
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	I don't know how to measure military strength so I don't know. I just assumed that Israel had a stronger military than most of the middle east countries combined due to the results of the previous wars (at least when the US helps) even though it could've gone both ways in 1973. I'm sure the US would help. Isn't it like, law for them to do so now? Besides the muslim countries are too busy hating each other and cracking down revolutions to unite against Israel. I heard that during the Egyptian revolution, anti-Israeli sentiment was stirred up by the government but they still protested anyway. And I think the anti-Israel propaganda is just rhetoric and the actual governments aren't really gonna help the palestians anymore. At least that's the impression I got with reading about their history after the Camp David accords. As for Jeruselum I do agree that none of them should have it but I think the best apporach would be to give it to the UN, not kill everyone or destroy buildings. __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners

2011-09-20, 09:04	Link #16642
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	It is hard for Arabs to be anti-semitic, since they are semites, just like the Jews. Just putting that out there. __________________

2011-09-20, 09:13	Link #16646
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The problem with the Camp David accords now is that the Islamic countries governments are changing. Most have no reason to follow the accords anymore (Turkey was an ally of Israel in the Cold War because it meant US friendship against the Soviet Union, which was on the Turkish border....Israel isn't on that border. Today Turkey has no reason to be friendly with Israel...there is no Soviet Union and friendship with the US isn't a priority due to NATO and the EU. Jordan remains friendly-ish because they like being freinds with the United States (the new King is a huge Star Trek fan), but Egypt is gettting hostile again if they new government doesn't maintian the peace, or Israel does somethig stupid again. Saudi Arabia does their own thing. Syria and Lebennon have no love for Israel, but have their own problems currently. Iraq is currently a non-issue politically. Iran has been war drumming for a decade or more against Israel and the US...and who knows what they will do if given the chance. __________________

2011-09-20, 09:18	Link #16648
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Semite is a language family by the way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages It also include Ethiopians __________________

2011-09-20, 10:27	Link #16653
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	For lack of a better alternative? If you can think of a better neutral party then be my guest. Besides corpus separatum was meant to be the original plan. __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners

2011-09-20, 09:36	Link #16650
biodude711 Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: USA Age: 32	In other news, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy banning gays in the US Military ends

2011-09-20, 11:25	Link #16656
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Be that as it may, the UN is the only international body that is viable as a caretaker for a city that would otherwise be fought over or destroyed. It does have representation by all the religions involved in the region. It is better than a King Solomon-like "glass it with atomic fire" option, don't you think? __________________

2011-09-20, 11:31	Link #16658
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Cutting a baby in half destroys it, remember, as it would be dead. You can cut a city in half with atomic weapons, but the city is just as dead. __________________

2011-09-20, 11:56	Link #16660
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Yet it seems to remain a main issue stopping the peace process. The Christians aren't fighting for it anymore, but always seem concerned about its safty. The Muslims (well Palestinians at least) want it as their capital as well since it is also in the West Bank area, and if I recall there is still a dispute over the treaty terms from 1967. Also remember that there are a lot of crazies out there that believe the whole 2012 world ending nonsense. They will try to make the world end...and one of the main features for that ending is Jeruselem. Mind you that the Vatican and Mecca are second choices for holy cities. Jeruselem was always the first choice it seems. Both were picked because Jeruselem was out of reach, or overly violent when the choice was made. What I am surprised about, it why didn't Israel just take over the whole place when it had the opportunity. Drive them off the lands and claim it in full rather than the occupied state you all left it in. By the time you started with the settlements in the West Bank it was too late. By then you were negotiating with the Palestinians rather than driving them out. By then you have the United States and everyone else poking around. You won a Six Day War, but didn't capitalize on it. Now you have this mess that looks like it is about to blow up (again) in your faces, and the rest of the world (US included) looks like it is far beyond ready to just let Israel fall this time around (even though the world had very little to nothing to do with any of Israel's victories in the last several wars). I respect Israel for its ability to win and defend itself. But its policy shifts and seeming (at least from some news sources) suggested racial superiority, are rubbing that respect the wrong way. Either do it or don't do it...this halfway nonsense is making things worse for both sides. Make a deal or cast them out....leaving them as the occupied party just invites more violence in the long term. Be the caring neighbor or the conquorer...don't be the idiot politician or scumbag hood that tried to get rich on the backs of your own and your enemies. __________________