Spice and Wolf II - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[DreXav]

Originally Posted by karumofin

huh? only one more episode? i smell a cliffhanger...

Originally Posted by h2osprey

(...)they did that for Code Geass.. argh.

There will be one for sure as this arc carries over next season (it's covered in two novel volumes afaik).

[Windows X]

No cliffhanger but another journey like. The name "endless tears" said so itself that we'll get danmed explanation of what she's so scared of.

[velderia]

It's a bit sad that's there's only one episode left. I felt like there could be more. Can't wait to be able to read the light novels. (Also, I'm actually watching season 2 first before season 1, if that matters. >_>')

So far, so good. The rebellion thing was a bit random though, but maybe it's an important part of the end. It's not that impossible to think that there is a rebellion after seeing what that town is going through.

Well, it's a 9/10. Can't wait to see how this concludes. I hope Holo doesn't really depart from Lawrence, but it looks like that could really happen.

[WuWei]

I actually think that Lawrence has finally beaten Horo on the wisdom and maturity scale in this episode.

Horo's concerns are very reflective of a Japanese aesthetic inherited from Buddhism. "The World is Passing, All Things Fade, etc." That's why Horo has been asking "Why don't you act the way you used to? How come i don't startle you or make you anxious anymore?"

Its like Horo just wants to experience the very beginning of a relationship, when people acts like stupid crazy kids in love, or some such. For the more scientifically inclined, she wants her Dopamine high. She seems to think that stagnation/decline are the only things in store for the relationship. Maybe things will get old, maybe it won't be as fun, maybe they'll end up fighting and :gasp: hating each other.

Better to have an idealized portrait of the fun times than deal with the unknown.

Lawrence, IMHO, sees a different outcome thanks to his talk with the Nun. Like Rigolo, it is the humble patient daily pursuit of a dream that makes Lawrence tick.

Rigolo's garden is green all year (a defiance of the decline of all things is it not?), not by happenstance or luck or a blessing. He did that through sheer effort in his pursuit of happiness.

I think Lawrence finally caught onto this, let's hope Horo does the same.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by WuWei

I actually think that Lawrence has finally beaten Horo on the wisdom and maturity scale in this episode.
...
I think Lawrence finally caught onto this, let's hope Horo does the same.

Yeah, it seems Lawrence finally realized how much he depends on Horo in this episode. It's not just that she's important to him, he relies on her being there as well. Now Horo has to realize it and accept it. She seems terrified that she has come to depend so much on Lawrence.

[Anh_Minh]

Just getting started on the ep, but... Bad guys' faces, bad guys' laughs... How could it possibly end well?

Additional remarks:
- even if it had ended well, would Lawrence truly be happy setting up shop in that town? That's was my thought before the other shoe dropped at last. Seriously, aside from the waitress and maybe Rigolo and his friend, it just didn't seem like a nice place. Whether it's government or the potential partners, it just seems so unpleasant.
- the end was oddly comforting. Sure, it's too bad for Lawrence and Horo they got caught up in it. But at least they didn't get betrayed. Abe even went to warn them. And, mostly, I'm happy for the commoners. Sure, a lot of them are going to die. Order's already breaking down, so a lot of innocents are going to be killed, raped, and stolen from (not necessarily in that order). But hell, they'd been toyed with a bit too much. That bishop wanted to starve them for some obscure political advantage? I hope they gut that bastard.

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by NaweG

SO, did anyone else notice Lawrence's surprise after he rubbed the statue of Mary and tasted the result? Pretty sure this means my theory that the "stone" statues are actually Salt, and that someone has been in on some smuggling is correct.

I had suspected that as well (even until the 18th century, at least! salt wasn't very common) so the idea of Abe smuggling it in makes sense, probably with the church's help to get around local government regulations/tariffs.
Oh and Lawrence? You know how you were saying things were going too smoothly? Yeah, don't do that again, Murphy's Law is gonna come and bite you where it hurts for that one.

[aulzon]

Well wow, I did not expect that. Came out of nowhere but they were foreshadowing the political and social turmoil in the town for a while so I should have expected that.

How much of this Abe could sense? The deal seems like a good deal on the surface but if she knew that something like this would have happened, it would have made the deal a lot less favourable. And we finally find out what the deal with the statues are. So does that mean Abe made a much bigger profit because salt is a lot cheaper than stone?

Although the drama starts, one good thing that might end up happening is that Lawrence has an excuse to continue with his journey since the deal fell through.

[h2osprey]

Originally Posted by DreXav

There will be one for sure as this arc carries over next season (it's covered in two novel volumes afaik).

Ugh I guessed as much - volume 5 and later haven't been translated yet though, which is why I can't even spoil the plot for myself even if I wanted to (short of learning Japanese).

Well, the good news is there probably will be a third season.. assuming the ratings don't tank suddenly or anything. Now to wait, very patiently...

[Xander]

Originally Posted by h2osprey

Well, the good news is there probably will be a third season.. assuming the ratings don't tank suddenly or anything. Now to wait, very patiently...

This is the kind of show that depends more on DVD sales than on ratings, I believe, but hopefully it does continue to sell well enough to warrant another season. Having said that...I'll go back to lurking.

[Arashi500]

I can't even think of who the warring sides are. The church is probably one and the other..? An organized slave rebellion would be ironic.

[sacundim]

Originally Posted by DreXav

To illustrate it with a real life example, to take, let's say, 250k credit from bank, you would have to put your house worth 700k as mortgage. Basically, the Derrink Company is loaning a huge amount of solid, cold cash to Lawerence with taking Horo as insurance that Lawrence pays them back. In case he doesn't, Horo's value is more than enough to compensate.

I can't tell if this is just unclear or wrong, but let me put it the way it should be.

First thing: the way your wrote it, one could understand that if you borrow 250k and you have 700k of home equity, defaulting on the 250k causes you to lose 700k worth of house. This is just not so. If you default on your 250k debt, the house must be sold, and the creditor gets paid off from the proceeds of the sale. If there is any money left after the sale, the owner gets to keep that money. So if you default on the 250k and the house (initially valued at 700k) sells for 650k, your creditor gets 250k, and you get the remaining 400k. The creditor isn't entitled to any more than what they are owed.

Second: you make it sound like the collateral must be worth more than the loan. In fact, the value of the collateral has a very loose relationship to the amount of the loan. Typically, in fact, the collateral is worth less than the loan. The point of the collateral is to reduce the risk to the lender, not to eliminate it. So for example, a lender who lends you 800k without any collateral can lose up to 800k; if they lend you that against a 700k house in collateral, then they can only lose 800k minus the value of the house (which may go up or down).

I have to rewatch the episode to work out the details, but if I recall correctly, Lawrence gets a 2000 silver loan with Horo as collateral. This by itself doesn't say much about Horo's value as a slave, but assuming that Lawrence tries to borrow as much as Derrink is willing to lend on that collateral, they value Horo at less than 2000 silver.

[AKnightWhoSaysNi!]

Now that's a good episode!

If it wasn't 1:30, and I was more coherent, I'd probably explain why a bit better. But Horo wanting to leave Lawrence while they both have good memories... so... sad. Thank god it looks like Lawrence figured out the "if it's important to you, keep fighting anyway" thing right at the end... Like hell he should let her go!

That and his tail-touch. Somehow it didn't seem like that hurt her...

Oh and no actual selling of Horo, big plus there.

[seaghyn16]

I just wanted to give my idea, because I haven't seen any body post about it yet...though maybe it's just commonly thought of already, I don't know.

Some people have said the rebellion came out of nowhere, and they were like, wtf?

But wasn't it building? You see the warring sides. The populace on one side, and the supporters of the church on the other. For the church, we already know the bishop is corrupt, and has shady deals to increase his financial margin on his way to greater power. Then we know that the church in this town can't treat it's people properly, as all they are doing is shady dealings.

One such deal was Abe. Instead of Abe raising profit margins through selling the salt statues, what if it was the church who had directed her to do so? In order for them to increase their profits, they wanted to statues sold to the townspeople. But when this years expedition was canceled, they kicked Abe out, because she wouldn't be able to give them that much of a profit gain.

As for the townsfolk, lets say that on top of them being fed up with the church "killing" any who oppose it, they come to realize the statues given by the church were salt and not stone? Then they would realize how much they were paying for them, versus how much they were worth, on top of that the church itself would have been desecrating the image or whatever. All this would of course lead to such a rebellion.

Then the merchants who want the furs and stuff. They all looked shady and stuff, but for them to be behind the rebellion, I can't see it. Merchants have places to go, profits to make, etc. They would never stay and fight in a rebellion unless the profits were enormous. Right? And what could they gain by fighting? Some cheaper furs? and what could they lose? Their lives. Really easily. It's a revolution after all. I'm pretty sure most of the merchants high tailed it and ran, and the fight is between the villagers and their church.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by seaghyn16

As for the townsfolk, lets say that on top of them being fed up with the church "killing" any who oppose it, they come to realize the statues given by the church were salt and not stone? Then they would realize how much they were paying for them, versus how much they were worth, on top of that the church itself would have been desecrating the image or whatever. All this would of course lead to such a rebellion.

I don't think it's that political. People wouldn't rebel over that - they'd just keep their mouth shut, mostly.

It's bread riots that start rebellions, not people disappearing. In this case, the government is interfering with the main trade of the town - what most people live on, directly or indirectly. The cancellation of the expedition already hit them hard, and the church is making it worse by imposing stupid conditions on the deals.

[MeoTwister5]

So how many of you are sad that the next episode is the last for this season, and we'll have to wait another godamn year+ in agony for season 3?

[FlareKnight]

Well Lawrence's instinct was right on here. Things never go completely well for him and Horo. There is degree of bad but it's never a smooth trip. How fun would that be :P? At least this riot should get in the way of selling Horo. Unless those guys decide to force the agreement. But in this situation everyone will be running around in a panic. The tricky thing is getting to the inn and getting their cart. Save the horse!

Originally Posted by AKnightWhoSaysNi!

That and his tail-touch. Somehow it didn't seem like that hurt her...

Oh and no actual selling of Horo, big plus there.

Agree that no selling of Horo is a good thing. Besides a lesson learned from Utawarerumono, you can't just go touching a girl's tail without some consequences. In this case a headbutt .

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

So how many of you are sad that the next episode is the last for this season, and we'll have to wait another godamn year+ in agony for season 3?

Yeah it's just sad to think about the series being just about over. Why must there be the agony of no more Spice and Wolf to watch ? Oh well have to enjoy what is left of the show and then we can be depressed. Now that I think about it maybe the people are rioting for a different reason. They could also be upset about Spice and Wolf ending soon and are picking up arms to demand a third season . *Grabs pitchfork* In that case might be worth giving them a hand .

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Besides a lesson learned from Utawarerumono, you can't just go touching a girl's tail without some consequences. In this case a headbutt .

A consequence I'd happily accept.

This anime season has gone way too quickly, I can't believe we're nearing the end already. Soon I'll be back to my daily visits to the novel translations hoping for updates.

[AKnightWhoSaysNi!]

Originally Posted by Starburst

This anime season has gone way too quickly, I can't believe we're nearing the end already. Soon I'll be back to my daily visits to the novel translations hoping for updates.

Next episode should end vol 5, I think the first bit of 6 is translated, but after that withdrawal will set in quick...

I hope next season gets 26 eps. This show most certainly deserves a full season.

[h2osprey]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

So how many of you are sad that the next episode is the last for this season, and we'll have to wait another godamn year+ in agony for season 3?

This might be wishful thinking, but what are the chances that the third season will be released sometime in the near future (i.e. << 1 year's time)? That only seems to make sense, given how the current arc hasn't even ended..