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Old 2018-04-16, 17:18   Link #861
Questman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pervypig View Post
SAO is a very bad example of a fanboy's wet-dream mutating into corporate cash-cow. Depending on who you asked, it WAS popular as a WN (when there's even a R18 Chapter), not so much for its good writing but for hitting all the right spots in gamers' wish-fulfillment fantasies. Then we had the anime, and the rest is history.

I have the tiny hope that the anime of Goblin Slayer makes the franchise popular enough exspecially in the west, so that I can get my hands on the lightnovels faster.
I am pissed that the release date for Volume 5 got postponed for months (but let's not dwell on that ^^).

And it seems that SAO novels were not postponed and have been released regularly because it has a critical mass of popularity. I dare to assume the popularity of SAO came with the anime as there are just not that many book readers around that could have picked SAO Lightnovels right away. I hope Goblin Slayer can achieve the same.
(Mind you I just assume it, I have no data to support my assumption)


As a side note, I am not fond of SAO myself. I have seen glimpses here and there and it has everything I try to avoid.
Cheap villains, a harem, boring everyman niceguy protagonist and a story that tries to elevate gaming into something heroic and important.

As an avid gamer myself I get a headache everytime I see a story where gaming is saving the world or something. The portrayal is so wrong and when I see a Kirito that defeats some thugs with overpowered stats (like gamebalance and noob protection is not existing at all), it makes everything absurd.

Gamer-wishfulfillment is a phrase I have in mind as well when I look at SAO. But maybe I am getting too old for this kind of junk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pervypig View Post
Back on topic though, I can't wait for GS anime too, but the thought that it might cover only 3 volumes kinda poured cold water on me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
AS long as they stay as close as possible to the LN/manga and not delve into harem bullshit then I'm fine with it being only 3 - heck, even 2 - volumes.

I am with you on the harem thing. Harems are bound to make a story stupid.
But I doubt they will do that. They will catch the same vibe like the manga and the LN.
And as far as I know in all those 7 LN books we never had a situation where any female partymember went 'GOBLIN SLAYER SAMAAAAA!!!!'
So I trust the author will keep it that way.

They have a bond and do care for each other, but this is just genuine caring and not love. That is why I can buy the High Elf Archer and Priestess interaction with Goblin Slayer (and Guild Girl and Cowgirl), because it is kept normal without the mindless fawning I have seen in other works.

But we will have fanservice...
At least they get resolved quickly and Goblin Slayer's nonchalant reaction makes it bearable.


They can only cover so many books with an anime that is newly introduced. They have to stop somewhere. But hey, if it gets successful, we will see more.
Everything that can earn money will be animated sooner or later.

So if everything goes well, we will see all the books animated (unless the author writes until volume 42 and still continues).
There have been cases where an entire LN collection got animated.
I think 'Shakugan no Shana' got every book animated, which is a surprise since the first two seasons are boring. The third one was well done though.

Last edited by Questman; 2018-04-16 at 17:28. Reason: Misunderstood a statement; therfore removed a line. I added additional stuff I forgot to write.
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Old 2018-04-17, 01:03   Link #862
pervypig
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^ At least this harem won't be one where you get the MC walking into a bath filled with nude heroines and then getting his face punched out... GS wears a helmet all the time.
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Old 2018-04-17, 02:12   Link #863
BladeMancer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questman View Post
I have the tiny hope that the anime of Goblin Slayer makes the franchise popular enough exspecially in the west, so that I can get my hands on the lightnovels faster.
I am pissed that the release date for Volume 5 got postponed for months (but let's not dwell on that ^^).

And it seems that SAO novels were not postponed and have been released regularly because it has a critical mass of popularity. I dare to assume the popularity of SAO came with the anime as there are just not that many book readers around that could have picked SAO Lightnovels right away. I hope Goblin Slayer can achieve the same.
(Mind you I just assume it, I have no data to support my assumption)


As a side note, I am not fond of SAO myself. I have seen glimpses here and there and it has everything I try to avoid.
Cheap villains, a harem, boring everyman niceguy protagonist and a story that tries to elevate gaming into something heroic and important.

As an avid gamer myself I get a headache everytime I see a story where gaming is saving the world or something. The portrayal is so wrong and when I see a Kirito that defeats some thugs with overpowered stats (like gamebalance and noob protection is not existing at all), it makes everything absurd.

Gamer-wishfulfillment is a phrase I have in mind as well when I look at SAO. But maybe I am getting too old for this kind of junk.







I am with you on the harem thing. Harems are bound to make a story stupid.
But I doubt they will do that. They will catch the same vibe like the manga and the LN.
And as far as I know in all those 7 LN books we never had a situation where any female partymember went 'GOBLIN SLAYER SAMAAAAA!!!!'
So I trust the author will keep it that way.

They have a bond and do care for each other, but this is just genuine caring and not love. That is why I can buy the High Elf Archer and Priestess interaction with Goblin Slayer (and Guild Girl and Cowgirl), because it is kept normal without the mindless fawning I have seen in other works.

But we will have fanservice...
At least they get resolved quickly and Goblin Slayer's nonchalant reaction makes it bearable.


They can only cover so many books with an anime that is newly introduced. They have to stop somewhere. But hey, if it gets successful, we will see more.
Everything that can earn money will be animated sooner or later.

So if everything goes well, we will see all the books animated (unless the author writes until volume 42 and still continues).
There have been cases where an entire LN collection got animated.
I think 'Shakugan no Shana' got every book animated, which is a surprise since the first two seasons are boring. The third one was well done though.
What are you talking about? Guild Girl, Priestess, Cow Girl, SM, Archer. They all love him, or is it some sort of advanced friendship I haven't heard of? Make no mistake, they all love GS in their own way but they all share a common goal; to heal his scars.
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Old 2018-04-17, 03:27   Link #864
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Originally Posted by pervypig View Post
^ At least this harem won't be one where you get the MC walking into a bath filled with nude heroines and then getting his face punched out... GS wears a helmet all the time.
Yes, it's that kind of harem where MC wakes up with naked Onee-san in bed instead
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Old 2018-04-17, 04:28   Link #865
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^ Can't say that's an improvement but fanservice is an essential building block of any harem, nay any anime/manga. If you don't get it from the goblin rape scenes, then that's the only other place where you can expect it.
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Old 2018-04-17, 04:54   Link #866
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Originally Posted by Questman View Post
I am with you on the harem thing. Harems are bound to make a story stupid.
But I doubt they will do that. They will catch the same vibe like the manga and the LN.
And as far as I know in all those 7 LN books we never had a situation where any female partymember went 'GOBLIN SLAYER SAMAAAAA!!!!'
So I trust the author will keep it that way.

They have a bond and do care for each other, but this is just genuine caring and not love. That is why I can buy the High Elf Archer and Priestess interaction with Goblin Slayer (and Guild Girl and Cowgirl), because it is kept normal without the mindless fawning I have seen in other works.

But we will have fanservice...
At least they get resolved quickly and Goblin Slayer's nonchalant reaction makes it bearable.
What I mean by "harem bullshit" is the anime ignoring all the other stuff and dial up the harem aspect, not that GS doesn't have harem undertone.

Cow Girl, Guild Girl, Priestess and Elf Archer are all interested in GS with varying degrees, but they all know what kind of person GS is and thus is more worried about his mental health then of the romantic aspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Yes, it's that kind of harem where MC wakes up with naked Onee-san in bed instead
Only once, and it was necessary else it's death.
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Old 2018-04-17, 05:11   Link #867
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of course it was necessary. It would never work if author decided create life saving ritual involving clothes!

Cow girl wearing bikini armor, and best girl going commando is also important part of world building, because GB is extremely prudent work void of necessary (though not unwelcomed) fan service.



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Originally Posted by pervypig View Post
^ Can't say that's an improvement but fanservice is an essential building block of any harem, nay any anime/manga. If you don't get it from the goblin rape scenes, then that's the only other place where you can expect it.
I don't think anyone is supposed take rape in GB as service of any kind though.
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Old 2018-04-17, 06:32   Link #868
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Thinking about a good place in the Light Novels for the anime to end might be the right after the climax of the fight at the farm. That would have it end on a big battle with everybody present. So that's my guess for a 1 cour.

As for the recent harem discussion, I really don't get a harem vibe even though some elements look like they are present. If Cow Girl has an actual rival it would be Guild Girl, but I think GS would only have eyes for Cow Girl if he would ever turn down the anti-goblin crusade a notch or two and apply himself to other aspects of life.
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Old 2018-04-17, 07:26   Link #869
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post

I don't think anyone is supposed take rape in GB as service of any kind though.
Not for titillation anyway. It's world-building. Goblins are a hostile species that can only breed with other species. Unless its something like in Grimgar where there are females or Dan Machi where something else spawns them, there's really only one other way they can come about.
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Old 2018-04-17, 07:34   Link #870
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Even that is secondary imho. Real reason is make goblin real threat. If you loose to dragon you die. If you loose to goblin you pray you can die. They are to be hated, to be feared, yet they need to be weak and smart just as child. This is way to check all these boxes.
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Old 2018-04-17, 16:54   Link #871
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Originally Posted by BladeMancer View Post
What are you talking about? Guild Girl, Priestess, Cow Girl, SM, Archer. They all love him, or is it some sort of advanced friendship I haven't heard of? Make no mistake, they all love GS in their own way but they all share a common goal; to heal his scars.
To avoid musunderstandings, let's set up some definitions and clarifications, so that we don't talk about different things. This post will be quite meta and long, so if you don't care about the harem topic, I suggest you skip this post (no hard feelings from me ^^).




First clarification: What does harem actually mean?


There is a difference between multiple loveinterests and a harem.

Multiple Loveinterests is a situation where multiple persons are interested in one guy. It is only an interest, there is nothing set in stone like a firm love declaration or a marriage.

Harem is a situation where the guy already has all the girls. They are fawning over him, yearning for his affection and it seems that all of them are willing to share this guy.

The anime 'Clannad' is the first example, the protagonist has multiple love interests, but in the end he chooses only one girl.
(Storys like that are absolutely okay, I like Clannad =3)

The anime 'Campione' is the second example, there the protagonist has all the girls already and all girls are kind of willing to share the protagonist, since he is so nice, and smart, and handsome and so kind and all the other fluff stuff...
(Interesting at the beginning, but Campione got really carried away later and I could not take it serious anymore)


Goblin Slayer has multiple loveinterests, but no harem. All women show interest, but nothing is set in stone.
When I talk about harem, I talk about the possibility of Goblin Slayer getting all the girls (as in ALL OF THEM), and I don't want that.
I like all characters and I have my favorites, but a harem outcome would shatter the entire worldbuilding. All persons in Goblin Slayer, exspecially the women, act like real persons would (well, for the most part).
They are realistic enough that I can comprehend the world, it's inhabitants and their actions. A harem ruins it, since a harem just makes no sense.


So yeah, Goblin Slayer has loveinterests, which is totally okay (I even like that fact), but he has no harem.
Let's keep those two terms in mind so we don't misunderstand each other.






Next Clarification: The difference between caring for someone and loving someone!


What confuses me here is that people are quick to interpret almost every action a girl does as a form of love or interest in the person she is helping out.

It is either love or no love with nothing inbetween, like a true/false mindmap or a yes/no question.
You should see human feelings more like a scale, with different degrees of affection displayed. From 1 to 10, the middle number 5 is neutral (no hate or care), below 5 is dislike to hate, and above 5 is liking to genuine care, with the number 10, and only 10, the ultimate form of caring and interest which we call love.


Do all women Goblin Slayer is in contact with have an affection level of 10? I say no.
Some are, but not all of them.

In all volumes up to Volume 4 I have read in english, This is the case for Guild Girl, Cow Girl and Sword Maiden (I totally forgot her )
They either admitted affection or they showed clear signs of jealousy.

Priestess and High Elf Archer on the other hand are not on level 10, more like 7 or 8.
I haven't read a single line that clearly (!) states this might be the case.
Priestess was never flustered, jealous or anything when other women were around Goblin Slayer. There was not a single move she did to infatuate him.
The same with High Elf Archer, she even flat out denied any interest in him in book 3.
Elf Archer likes to adventure with him, but does not love him.
(HEA: I told you. I am not thinking of him that way.)

To give a comparison in terms of infatuating someone:
Female Knight, the partymember of Heavy Swordsman, is in love with that Heavy Swordsman. Not only did she admit it to Goblin Slayer in book 3, but she even went to a shop to change her attire so she can get Heavy Swordsman's attention. Later she went on a date with him.

In comparison to that, Pirestess and Elf Archer did nothing of the like.
I do expect a move with the clear and obvious goal to conquer the heart of the person you are in love with. Just helping along is not enough to convince me.



In conclusion, I think the term 'advanced friendship' does apply here. Everyone, women included, who help Goblin Slayer does it out of camaraderie.

If someone thinks otherwise, make sure you find a line in the book to support your claim. Discussions based on 'I think, I believe and I imagine' leads to nowhere.




PS: I never expected to write so much about relationships in a series that isn't about relationships.
We should not focus too much on harem and loveinterests since Goblin Slayer's main point is something else. Love is a nice addition in the series, but not the main point.
It is like watching 'Lord of the Rings' for the romance. (Spoiler: there isn't much)

Last edited by Questman; 2018-04-17 at 18:44. Reason: Replaced the word 'female' with 'girls' and 'woman'. Piece of advice: using 'female' as a noun instead of woman is an insult.
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Old 2018-04-17, 17:14   Link #872
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By the way, I never understood the whole 'healing his scars' stuff.

In my eyes they only give him advices how to interact with other people so he can get along better with his party members, which is kind of crucial since he starts to relie on teamwork a lot and social skills are important.

You guys make it sound like his party is a division of psychiatrists and the whole story is a journey of rehabilitation.
It is less rehabilitation and more like he discovers additional aspects to life. He is not socially inept, but rather he chooses to not care about it since it is irrelevant to him in terms of killing goblins.
Only when he got himself a party did he start to care and to evaluate those aspects, as he has an interest to get along well with others.


And my guess is that he will never be 'fixed' anyway since his quirks are defining him. Without him behaving like Goblin Slayer, he will just stop being Goblin Slayer.
It is like Batman becoming normal.

I don't think he needs that much rescue anyway since Goblin Slayer is at it's core a simple adventure story. A deep 'soul salvation journey' doesn't reallly fit in that setting.
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Old 2018-04-17, 17:21   Link #873
blitz1/2
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@questman: I would say Sword Maiden would be at least a 9. With her, confessing her love (at volume 2, regretting her social status in volume 4 that she can't meet GS, writing the quest to GS at volume 5 which the other girls sounded like a love letter.)
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Old 2018-04-17, 18:08   Link #874
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Since I said something about fanservice and it got some responds, I might explain it as well, because why the hell not...
(I wrote a lot already anyway)

With one exception* I like the fansevice parts storywise because they serve the purpose of character interaction and are not there just to show some boobies.

Cow Girl and Priestess trying on bikini armor was friendship development. Guild Girl and Elf Archer had interesting smalltalk while trying on some underwear (I had to roll my eyes at the context though, why underwear out of all things?).

What I find mildly annoying though is that those scenes all get a colored page in the novels (except book 1 and 6).

Book 3 with Priestess in festive attire is okay, since a festival was the main plot. The Hot Bath thing in book 5 I can let pass, since it looks more like a conversation that just takes place in a bath, and Priestess and Elf just sit there doing nothing.

But naked Priestess in bed in book 2, all of them in underwear in book 4 and all of them in bikini in book 7? Really?
This is just soft porn im my eyes.


But as stated, it is only mildly annoying. It is just one color page and I deal with it. Good thing is that storywise those scenes do move and develop the story, so I can tolerate the color pages.



* the exception is Priestess having to help Sword Maiden saving Goblin slayer by lying next to Goblin Slayer beeing naked as Swordmaiden has to be.
It makes no sense to me that a beginner priestess (even if gifted) suddenly has to help an overpowered gold ranked Arch Bishop out of nowhere.
And don't tell me that virgin stuff as a reason, it was never explained in the books why Priestess had to help, only that she did help.
That in my eye was a lousy excuse just to get Priestess nude.

At least the scene got resolved very quickly and Goblin Slayer remained as stoic as ever.
More annoying than fanservice are male protagonists who always panic in those situations (like they have been raised by the Vatikan).
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Old 2018-04-17, 18:17   Link #875
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Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
@questman: I would say Sword Maiden would be at least a 9. With her, confessing her love (at volume 2, regretting her social status in volume 4 that she can't meet GS, writing the quest to GS at volume 5 which the other girls sounded like a love letter.)

It is no surprise. Swordmaiden is like a teen girl who fell in love with her hero.

And the scale thing with 1 to 10 is more like a symbolic explanation. It is not really important if she is a 9 or 10, the numbers are just there to bring my point across.

I think we can agree that Sword Maiden's affection for Goblin Slayer is really high. Putting her feelings in numbers won't do it justice.
(Since feelings can not be put in numbers anyway, it is also pointless ^^)
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Old 2018-04-17, 21:35   Link #876
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Spoiler for for Short:
There is no such thing as "multiple love interest genre". Well there is, but it's called "harem" and Clannad certainly is harem. Genre where everyone are willing share in other hands is called "true harem".

Well I agree High Elf archer doesn't have explicit romantic affection and that Portable barrier-chan is not aware her adoration has romantic subtext, even if it's bit obvious.
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Old 2018-04-18, 02:37   Link #877
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Originally Posted by Questman View Post
Spoiler for Too long:
You should really get your facts straight of what constitutes the harem genre before trying to lecture people about it...

Just like Tenzen said, the fact of there being multiple love interests already constitutes of a harem. Which, by the way, Clannad is one without doubt.

Here's a link if you want to know more about the genre itself: Harem Genre
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Old 2018-04-18, 03:43   Link #878
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Harem genre doesn't necessarily mean he has a literal harem of multiple willing love interests willing to share him. It's a figure of speech. There are multiple characteristics of the harem sub-genre and they aren't mutually exclusive either.

And yeah, you can have situations where the hero is surrounded by multiple hot girls and picks or is loyal and devoted to only one. Case in point, something like Chivalry of a Failed Knight, where the hero actually gets paired up with one girl early on in the story and is faithfully devoted to her throughout the entire story. Despite the fact that he has multiple girls who like him and are attracted to him and would probably like to jump his bones. With that in mind, a lot of people called Chivalry the "anti-harem" story. it has a lot of similar characteristics of harem stories, but you have the hero going for one girl and sticking with her from the outset.

Goblin Slayer I wouldn't call it a strict harem story, but it's definitely got some of the traditional qualities. The hero is drawing a group of women around him who all like him or are attracted to him and want a relationship with him. In these situations you will have a bunch of different protagonist types. Some are wishy washy about picking a girl. Some are perverted and want all of them rather than wanting to settle down with just one. Sometimes the guy EVENTUALLY will finally pick one at the end. Sometimes he won't. Once again, there are tons of variations to it, but they are still essentially are still the harem type of story.

However, Goblin Slayer is too dense to return any of the affection of the women who like him. Cow Girl and Guild Girl are both of consenting age and are clearly infatuated with him. But Goblin Slayer can't let go of his quest to kill all the goblins. And he's still broken socially and psychologically.

But yeah, the dude's got a harem, whether you like it or not:

Priestess
Cow Girl
Guild Girl
High Elf Archer
Sword Maiden

So that's five women. A harem by any other name, still a harem!
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Old 2018-04-18, 11:14   Link #879
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GS's true route is with the goblins. Girls stand no chance.
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Old 2018-04-18, 18:41   Link #880
Questman
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
There is no such thing as "multiple love interest genre". Well there is, but it's called "harem" and Clannad certainly is harem. Genre where everyone are willing share in other hands is called "true harem".

The more I know, thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
You should really get your facts straight of what constitutes the harem genre before trying to lecture people about it...

Just like Tenzen said, the fact of there being multiple love interests already constitutes of a harem. Which, by the way, Clannad is one without doubt.

Easy there, I never used the word 'fact'. I said 'clarification'.
I am well aware that I don't know the entire definition of harem. That was not the point to begin with.

Since harem contains just to many possibilities that can be considered harem, my point was to set some differences, as in I want to 'clarify' that the harem I talk about is not the same harem you talk about.
Or that Goblin Slayer is not the same as Sword Art Online.

Maybe my wording was not the best, but I certainly did not write: THIS IS HOW IT IS!! IGNORANT SAVAGES!!!

Clannad is certainly harem, but you just can't compare it with SAO, which is harem too. Both harem, but still different.
I wanted to point out the difference.

By the way, thanks for your link, too. No, really.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeljack83 View Post
But yeah, the dude's got a harem, whether you like it or not:

Priestess
Cow Girl
Guild Girl
High Elf Archer
Sword Maiden

So that's five women. A harem by any other name, still a harem!

I disagree with Priestess and High Elf Archer. And since it seems that you don't like to read long posts carefully, I will shorten my reasons.

Those two more or less just hang out with Goblin Slayer. Just beeing with one guy and helping out said guy is by no means a sign that they are infatuated with Goblin Slayer.
In book 3 Elf Archer flat out denied that she has a romantic interest. She said it with her own words.

What I expect to see are the kind of advancements that Guild Girl, Cow Girl and Female Knight (in love with some other guy) did. Their actions are in the name of love, there is no doubt.

Compared to that Priestess and Elf Archer are just passive bystanders. They do just nothing.
And curing his mental state is not a sign of love. Actually I doubt that it can be called curing to begin with, for me they are just giving advices (I explained it in a previous post).

If you think otherwise, feel free to quote a passage from the lightnovels that shows Priestess or Elf doing the same course of action Cow Girl, Guild Girl and Female Knight did. Just helping out Goblin Slayer does not convince me.



And in the end we all should not focus too much on the harem aspect because it is not that important to begin with. Goblin Slayer is an adventure story and not the best choice if someone is looking for romance.
Therfore let's change the topic. We both waste too much energy for the wrong things.
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