2012-06-22, 23:35 | Link #2081 |
Mishaguji-sama
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I do. (And I'm not a fantasy player any more since I'm marking it now.) Unpredictability between top level characters are fine, but I don't particularly care about whether the current rank #25 can actually beat current rank #27 in a straight up match because they're not going to affect the necklaces or the tiara, other than for the sake of SDO calculation. In fact, the difference of strength between just about everyone below around Erio and above Yuno (who will almost surely go 0-35) are pretty volatile, and matches between close ranked characters there could go any way, yet not a lot of people seem particularly excited about them.
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2012-06-22, 23:40 | Link #2082 |
My wolfu is >> your waifu
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Charleston, West Virginia
Age: 42
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I just wanna see Holo in another exhibition or an actual necklace match... come on guys help me help her.
Please! I'm on call, and then this... A sucky day indeed. :[ Oh how the despair is setting-in.
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2012-06-23, 01:04 | Link #2085 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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I can agree with the concept of a newbie being put into Nova if they have not faced the regular round robin before. Even if they are from an existing series that is in Stella. I was surprised a little to see Hecete is Stella with Shana after all these years of Shana being alone. There are only two newbies in Stella this year.
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2012-06-23, 03:11 | Link #2086 | |
ISML Technical Staff
Graphic Designer
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Quote:
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2012-06-23, 04:26 | Link #2087 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
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Damn, glad my vote helped Kuroneko. Sweet pic too. Good day. Not surprised either that a number of KugiRie fans dropped Taiga the moment Shana got a whiff of victory.
So surprisingly (or not) 3 of the 4 jeweleries have gone to Nova characters. Too bad Holo didn't get the Amethyst Brooch though.
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2012-06-23, 07:13 | Link #2088 | |
Senior Member
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The newbie approach (as outlined by Sackett) would create more unpredictability amongst the top level characters too. The reason for this is that newbies don't have well-established strength levels yet, whereas girls in their 2nd year in ISML tend to have this (the only thing that usually shifts this is a currently airing anime featuring one of the top girls - so Eucliwood is now stronger and can make things more exciting, but the other top girls in Nova all have fairly static strength levels). So when two of Aria, Erio, Inori, and the Haganai girls go head-to-head, there's some real doubt as to who's going to win the match. But Kanade vs. Charlotte, or Kuroneko vs. Yuri or Yui, is very predictable. So by having those 2nd year girls in Nova, you make the top level more predictable as well. From the highest tier to the lowest tier, Nova would be more unpredictable if it was only ISML newbies in it. And that would be of great benefit to Nova, imo. When you consider all the benefits that come with the Nova = Newbie approach (many of which Sackett lined out very compellingly, imo), and when you consider all the inherent structural weaknesses of the current approach (as Sackett and I have both pointed out), it honestly seems very clear to me which approach would be the better one for ISML to go with. Well, unless people here really want the next Kanade to languish pointlessly in Nova for two whole years, likely never getting to compete head-to-head with strong and popular vets while she's at her peak...
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2012-06-23, 10:21 | Link #2089 | |
Defying gravity
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Very nice poster for both Ruri and Ikaros.
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Sadly, the only other time she is going to be in an exhibition match is in the tag team division with Craft and win the match before becoming one of the seven girls involved in the longer exhibition match. |
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2012-06-23, 10:23 | Link #2090 |
Mishaguji-sama
Join Date: Oct 2010
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The only unpredictability I find to be truly exciting are between characters who are top level across everyone, nova or stella or whatever. Putting the middle pile of Nova this year on top by eliminating everyone above them is artificial.
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2012-06-23, 10:45 | Link #2091 | |
Senior Member
Author
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This would make the first few Necklace matches that much more exciting, imo, because we'd get to see our first real tests of new girl strength against veteran strength. But it would be a seven-way test, which can give skewed results, so people would have fun interpreting the results of those first few Necklace matches, and wondering what it might mean about the strengths of the new girls in it. I think it would be a fantastic year-long narrative. Instead, what we have this year (so far) are Necklace matches that could have just as well happened last year. They're not bad matches, per se, but there's nothing particularly new or fresh about them. And besides, the "more unpredictability" argument is just one argument out of many that Sackett and I have put forward in favor of a "Nova = Newbie and Stella = Veteran" format. Edit: One more thing I want to quickly add before people raise a point that I can already see coming. "If you had newbies vs. veterans in ISML necklace matches, the newbies would simply get killed!" Two points in response to that: 1. This isn't necessarily true. It may well be true this year, but it might not be true next year. Again, a new Kanade or at least a new Kuroneko could arise. 2. Some of the 2nd-year Nova girls that made it into Necklace matches are getting curbstomped anyway. Yuri and Kirino both managed fewer than 1000 votes for the 2012 Aquamarine Necklace match, and Yui managed fewer than 800 votes for the 2012 Amethyst Necklace match. A total newbie could hardly do much worse...
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-06-23 at 11:10. |
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2012-06-23, 15:14 | Link #2093 |
Cross Game - I need more
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 44
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Well, no decision has to be made until later. We don't have to make a decision today, but it's a good idea to get out all the ideas and thoughts, so that we can see what happens as we go on.
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2012-06-23, 15:27 | Link #2094 | |
My wolfu is >> your waifu
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Charleston, West Virginia
Age: 42
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Well, the only thing that would help at this point then is a miracle called Season III... which I know isn't happening. Sabotage!
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2012-06-23, 15:43 | Link #2095 | |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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Congrats to Kuroneko. Just got enough votes to take the necklace and certainly deserved the honor. A tight competition for the top like that really does make it feel worthwhile to vote .
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And season 3 will happen....probably....don't destroy my dreams!
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2012-06-23, 16:59 | Link #2096 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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For those interested, here are my character rankings from before Amethsyt 1 and after Amethyst 7:
Before Amethyst 1: Spoiler for Character Ranking before Amethyst 1:
After Amethyst 7: Spoiler for Character Ranking after Amethyst 7:
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2012-06-23, 18:51 | Link #2097 | ||
Senior Member
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Spoiler for Why it's important.:
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If nobody else wants to discuss this further right now, then I'll drop it after this post. But I really want to convey my misgivings with the current system, because I frankly see huge flaws in it.
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2012-06-23, 19:36 | Link #2098 |
ISML Technical Staff
Graphic Designer
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@Triple_R: Remember that we were FULLY aware that Kanade would never go 1v1 with Mikoto/Shana/etc... during regular season...and that was a POSITIVE. It adds to the uncertainty of ISML...during the post-season where we would want to them battle it out for the very first time.
Now, someone will argue that it can be more "exciting" if a contestant beat another during regular season and then a reversal happens in post-season. I agree this is also a possibility for excitement. I recall we had more people going with "unpredictability during post-season", but more importantly, overall with both sides I cannot claim that "Kanade would never go 1v1 with Mikoto" is a negative, ever. That's all I'll say on the subject since it was something that happened last year. We're not trying to interfere in this great discussion between the ISML community members, so please go on right ahead!
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2012-06-23, 20:35 | Link #2099 | |
Senior Member
Author
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If the current system was in effect last year, Kanade and Mikoto would never have faced each other in the regular season... correct? Now, as it so happened, Kanade was sniped by Shana in last year's Tiara Semifinal, preventing a Tiara Finals match-up between her and Mikoto. Something like that could have conceivably happened if the current system was in effect last year... correct? So, if you had the current system in effect last year, you might not have seen Kanade go head-to-head with Mikoto at all last year. Now, under the same system, you would not have had Kanade facing Mikoto at all during the regular season this year. So, the Tiara Rounds come around again, and let's say that this time Mikoto gets sniped before she can face Kanade (or maybe Kanade gets sniped again, it would have the same effect). You would now have two full years of no Kanade vs. Mikoto matches... anywhere, regular season or post-season. Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, you would need an highly unfortunate sequence of events for something like this to happen, but it's possible. The format should not allow for even the possibility of something like this. It just shouldn't, imo. But putting all of this aside, keeping the next Kanade or Kuroneko in Nova for two years is just horrible in and of itself, imo. It's even worse than what we have right now with Kanade in Nova, because last year's format meant we've already seen Kanade take on each the strongest vets at least once. The next Kanade won't have that benefit.
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2012-06-23, 21:16 | Link #2100 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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ok, i'm going to butt in and say, that i'm totally against the "Nova = first year in ISML" thing.
My point is that if the point of Nova is to bring new faces to the ISML then it's enough to make it "one year old anime = Nova". if you take animes from Spring last year to winter current year, then there is no way an anime charas that were in ISML could get in, because Nomination period ends in January. And any oldies that haven't been in ISML before should just go into Stella. If chara is weak it'll be weak no mater where it participates. More importantly ISML is about Moe, it's about charas getting support from there fans and winning matches for a whole year , i mean one thing is to get a chara to win and totally different thing is to support the chara for a whole year. Not every chara has that many dedicated fans and supporters. There are bound to be charas that lose support over time and charas that will gain support, and we don't have control over that process. That is why I don't think there is a point in making it easier for oldies to get in ISML. If they lose they lose, nothing more nothing less. ISML is about Moe winning and not Moe losing, we each have our own Moe perception that's why ISML doesn't guarantee a chara that you think is more Moe to win, it's a chara that everybody think is Moe that wins. Basically rule of the majority. And there is no point in making it so some underdog chara would face noob charas, so that maybe it would do better than with others from the same league. Is this a tournament or is this a show? Are we here to make it clear which chara is the most moe or are we here to get some random charas to fight each other for the sake of the show? |
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isml, saimoe, tournament |
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