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Old 2018-05-13, 11:37   Link #13501
DragonOsman
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Yeah, and they also might need a strong ability. So a willpower strong enough to resist a Desperado's power to control fate, and abilities strong enough to beat the Desperado in front of them.

But yeah, with what AP24 just said, it makes more sense. So Edelweiss was referring to Stella specifically at that time and just meant that she doesn't have a strong enough willpower to be able to resist that power. Ikki's also wasn't strong enough apparently since he was completely scared and his soul kept screaming at him to run when he fought Edelweiss.
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Old 2018-05-13, 13:49   Link #13502
AP24
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Desperados are very powerful because of two things. One is that they generally have huge mana, have powerful ability or are strong in combat which makes them even stronger than normal A-rank Blazers. If a normal Blazer isn't strong enough to defeat an A-rank Blazer, then it should be impossible to even defeat a Desperado.

Second is that Desperados can influence fate by enforcing their own will. The only way for their opponent to resist this effect is for them to have strong will themselves. But Desperados have very strong willpower after achieving Brute Soul so the ones who can resist the effect are generally other Desperados. Normal Blazers can resist it if they have strong enough willpower, but it also depends on what kind of fate the Desperados are enforcing.

Desperados like Naseem and Or-Gaule are monsters compared to other Desperados since their fate represents death. It was probably impossible for a girl like Stella to defeat such monsters if she had remained as a normal Blazer.
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Old 2018-05-13, 19:14   Link #13503
DragonEye
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If Edelweiss was just telling Stella that she could only beat them if she were a Desperado, then that's perfect, since it just makes it sound that she needed that to have a chance, not that it's kind of a "rule". If that's the case, then I love it. Well, now I wanna see Moroboshi fighting a Desperado, I don't think he will have a problem regarding willpower. But since Desperados in excessive awakening are enveloped in mana and all that, would a Tiger Bite crush that form?
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Old 2018-05-13, 19:15   Link #13504
DragonOsman
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So if it was against a less monstrous kind of Desperado, she would still have had a chance? She just needed to become a Desperado herself because she had to fight monsters like Naseem and Or-Gaule? Makes sense.

Edit: One post late.
@DragonEye: Good question. Now I want to see that. I wonder if Moroboshi would be able to beat Or-Gaule or Naseem without having to become a Desperado himself. Maybe not, since like AP24 said, their fate represents death itself. Who would have a strong enough will to resist that?
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Old 2018-05-14, 07:44   Link #13505
AP24
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I'm interested in finding out more about Levi. She seems to be an important female figure in the League of Mage-Knight Nations and even wears an eyepatch. Maybe in the next volume there will be a flashback of the time after Iris had been officially adopted by Levi which will provide more info on Levi.
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Old 2018-05-14, 08:47   Link #13506
Rosiero
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I still find all this stuff about "fate" and "willpower" and "killing intent" awfully vague, and it makes fights with Desperados hard to follow. In fact, it kind of seems to go against the series' central idea of thinking outside the box to win against high odds...
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Old 2018-05-14, 09:41   Link #13507
DragonOsman
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Ikki himself generally fights with killing intent and willpower though. It's just that now he's also a Desperado and can control fate. He just has to think outside the box because due to his low mana pool, he has to use trickery and/or strategy to defeat stronger opponents.

@AP24: Agreed.
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Old 2018-05-15, 09:56   Link #13508
AP24
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Even without trickery or strategy, Ikki is already overwhelming to most Blazers. Seasoned C-rank Blazers like Sirius are completely hopeless in front of him. Ikki probably can beat any normal Blazer now, though there are still some Desperados who are stronger than him. He's going to need some strategy to beat Iris who has a very powerful ability.
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Old 2018-05-15, 10:33   Link #13509
DragonOsman
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He might be able to beat Ouma and other A-rank Blazers as a Desperado, but he had some trouble against Ouma before he became a Desperado, back in their sparring match in Volume 9. He had to use trickery against Ouma then.
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Old 2018-05-17, 11:07   Link #13510
AP24
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We overestimated Or-Gaule's strength. It's because he is a Desperado and the main villain of the arc that we assumed him to be very powerful. But it turns out he's said to be no match for Iris, Xiaoli and the current Stella. I suppose it's understandable since he is not suitable for direct combat. But even so, it feels stupid if Stella defeats Or-Gaule without much difficulty. Ikki and Stella are equals so it would be better if Or-Gaule is as strong as Iris. The only way I can see this happen is if Or-Gaule reaches Excessive Awakening.
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Old 2018-05-17, 11:46   Link #13511
Vinkin
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Make me wonder, how smart is Or-gaule is? he is controlling an army and is like a general.
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Old 2018-05-17, 15:18   Link #13512
Rosiero
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We haven't just been overestimating Or-Gaule's strength, but his menace. I mean, his first act without hiding behind a puppet was to make a guy kill his friends and commit necrophilia. Kinda setting the bar high there, and the proof is in how readers were terrified he was going to do something horrible to Stella. But he hasn't really done anything nearly as horrifying since then, so he doesn't feel like that big of a deal.
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Old 2018-05-17, 15:51   Link #13513
DragonOsman
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We found out pretty early on that he wasn't strong in direct combat but was still powerful because of his ability. But the main thing is that he's an incredibly powerful puppet master. If you take away his puppets, and don't let him create more, what's left? His menace is fine, though; right now he's in danger so he can't really show much of it (can he?).
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Old 2018-05-18, 21:29   Link #13514
longdaica09vna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonOsman View Post
We found out pretty early on that he wasn't strong in direct combat but was still powerful because of his ability. But the main thing is that he's an incredibly powerful puppet master. If you take away his puppets, and don't let him create more, what's left? His menace is fine, though; right now he's in danger so he can't really show much of it (can he?).
I wonder if he know he isnt strong in direct combat, why he still aggre 5v5 battle. Even with promise Luna made with him , he should know his team cant win against Vermillion. I think he must have a plan if he wants his team win
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Old 2018-05-19, 09:37   Link #13515
AP24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longdaica09vna View Post
I wonder if he know he isnt strong in direct combat, why he still aggre 5v5 battle. Even with promise Luna made with him , he should know his team cant win against Vermillion. I think he must have a plan if he wants his team win
The League had sent their forces earlier than expected so Or-Gaule probably thought he had better chance of getting Cradleland by agreeing to Luna's term. He probably believed that Nene, Yui and Ikki would be taken care of by his teammates and that he can handle Iris and Stella. Unfortunately, it turns out that he's no match for Iris and Stella has gotten much stronger.
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Old 2018-05-22, 08:42   Link #13516
Alterdream
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At the end of the last chapter, when Iris is about to face Ikki, she is said to a "kenki" or "sword spirit". Is that a name for the ability that Desperados have or just a generic intimidation thing?
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Old 2018-05-22, 10:27   Link #13517
AP24
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Originally Posted by Alterdream View Post
At the end of the last chapter, when Iris is about to face Ikki, she is said to a "kenki" or "sword spirit". Is that a name for the ability that Desperados have or just a generic intimidation thing?
That's just a generic thing swordsmen have. It's basically fighting spirit. First time I heard the term was when I read Rurouni Kenshin.
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Old 2018-05-25, 14:33   Link #13518
longdaica09vna
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I wonder if blazers dont manifeste their device, can they use their abilities as good as they manifeste?
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Old 2018-05-26, 12:37   Link #13519
DragonOsman
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I don't think they can. They seem to need their Device manifested to use their abilities.
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Old 2018-06-11, 13:04   Link #13520
DragonEye
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So, any news regarding next volume or something?
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