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Old 2018-05-02, 13:03   Link #1
Pellissier
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Steins;Gate 0 - Spoilers thread

This thread is for the experienced Steins;Gate 0 viewer, its purpose is to allow free discussion about the adaptation of Steins;Gate 0 anime series, it therefore will contain unmarked spoilers.

Since posters are expected to be familiar with the visual novel or the light novel, there is no real need for spoiler tags, but feel free to include them if you so wish.

Adding a Spoiler tag:
Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title that clearly identifies the specific source of the spoiler!
Finally, please remain on-topic and do not use this thread if it's just discussion about the current or previous anime episodes. Also remember that this isn't a light novel / manga discussion thread, if you do want to discuss the light novel then please use the existing thread.
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Old 2018-05-02, 13:07   Link #2
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I believe this thread might come handy considering the direction of the anime as of now.

I initially thought they would go straight to Gehenna's stigma (which would be a terrible choice) as Vega and Altair would be redundant for the grand final, but since we got A stray Sheep right after X day protocol, it is pretty much confirmed they will merge the different route branches into a single narrative.

While I'm happy they might ignore all that nonsense with Kagari impersonating Yuki (avoiding the weird plot hole with the latter not in Tokyo in some worldlines that are barely different on the surface), I'm not sure how they will do that adaptation properly even though they do have 2 cour for it. The pacing is quite... fast for a lack of better terms.
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Old 2018-05-03, 13:56   Link #3
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Uhhhh I don't think they actually merged the branches.



I think we're actually viewing all of the branches at the same time but the show isn't telling us that. This would explain why it's inconsistent and some of the events don't make any sense.

I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not 100% convinced of this. But there's something really weird about the way the story is being told.

Last edited by Dengar; 2018-05-03 at 14:15.
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Old 2018-05-03, 14:41   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Uhhhh I don't think they actually merged the branches.



I think we're actually viewing all of the branches at the same time but the show isn't telling us that. This would explain why it's inconsistent and some of the events don't make any sense.

I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not 100% convinced of this. But there's something really weird about the way the story is being told.
Ohhh... So that was the theory you alluded to in the episode thread? If they actually go that route I'll be genuinely impressed with the adaptation.

Also thanks for making this thread Pellissier. I've been avoiding posting on the episode threads since I can hardly say anything without spoiling
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Old 2018-05-03, 14:55   Link #5
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Then, @Dextro...what could you spoil us about, for now?
In my case, I checked a few things on S;G Wiki, after my brother did so.
Spoilers are no problem to us, you could say it's like an appetizer to us
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Old 2018-05-03, 15:06   Link #6
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The problem is I played the game at release in europe (so 2016) and don't recall all the details so anything I may say can potentially be a spoiler about future events since I don't remember when they happen in story
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Old 2018-05-03, 15:20   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Uhhhh I don't think they actually merged the branches.
Either they completely changed the story to fit a single timeline, or they merged the routes.

The christmas party only occured in the GS/VA branch, whereas it never happened in TA/MG/TR branch. The difference isn't random: Leskinen could get his hands on Katsumi due to the "new encephalitis" thing, and since Okarin talked about that with her after the 1 month stuck in the USSR worldline, it tipped him off regarding all the future stuff, which lead to a lot of consequence for the future and the past.

There is no way the christmas party would be the same in TA/MG/TR, moreso that it would be the real yuki, not kagari in disguise.

That's the anime adaptation is very likely a route merge considering there is no way to have X day protocol and stray sheep occuring one after another without some very weird changes in the plot at large.
There is no way we see "several wordlines" at once for a simple reason: the original SG confirmed there is only 1 worldline active at a time. It isn't a story based on parallel universes whatsoever. They do switch from wordline to another, and there are close to an infinite number of wordlines, but there is only 1 wordline at a given time.
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Old 2018-05-03, 16:48   Link #8
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I actually explained what I think it is right after the part you quoted.

I think what's happening is that the show is showing us all the routes concurrently (separate, but at the same time), without telling us about it. This explains why some of the events seem really weird and out of order.

And the game's mere existence contradicts this notion that they can't show us different worldlines at the same time. Since the game itself shows us five different routes. And you need to finish at least two of them to reach the true ending.

You may argue that the true route is the "only" worldline, but that does not take away from the fact that the audience was shown the other worldlines.
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Old 2018-05-03, 17:04   Link #9
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That's not possible either.
In X Day protocol, Suzuha didn't mention Kagari to the lab members until much later. The reason is that she wasn't sure what to do considering Okarin still refuse to help her, leading to her questioning the reason of erasing the future due to Kagari's outburst. That and Okarin couldn't interact with her for a while because of what happens in Pandora's box.

Yet, the anime clearly have Suzuha telling that to Daru in the lab still decorated with Christmas stuff (which never happened in Stray Sheep route because everyone were busy).

Also, remember that Okarin never could see the end of the christmas party because of the USSR world line change.
Because of this, it cannot be both word lines shown seperately at the same time: a segment of episode 4 is basically both routes and some anime original stuff used to combine X day protocol and stray sheep.

Regarding the route system in 0, you absolutely don't need TA, MG or GS. Those are basically possible world line, similar to the delta, gamme, omega etc sidestories which are never seen in the original sg, yet are possible for the sake of "possibilities".
As for the inconsistency for having PR and V&A necessary to reach MWC, you are missing something: the DRINE is basically the trigger of the change.
Suppose PR is similar to the beta wordline in the original SG, and VA is the alpha wordline, there is no issue there: Okarin basically went through PR route, then changed the past by sending the DRINE. This triggers a world line change, but instead of seeing what happens with the reading steiner at the present, the game basically shows you what happens with the DRINE.
It is worth noting that Stray Sheep starts with a world line change, reflecting the fact Okarin isn't in the same world line as X day protocol, because he doesn't have everything for operation Arc Light and operation Skuld.

Of course, it is also due to the game format following a more classic route structure in a normal VN, instead of being linear with merely branching ends. This also explains why you can go to V&A without the DRINE, but considering how the game was written, VA (and optionally GS) don't make sense without reading PR route first.
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Old 2018-05-03, 17:08   Link #10
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Similar to the original S;G, I will just consider this the anime-canon. As long as everything makes sense in the end, I couldn't care less about it following the VN properly.
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Old 2018-05-03, 17:19   Link #11
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Question:

Why did Okarin apologize to Kurisu for hanging up? It was Maho who did that. Also when did he have the time to call her back? Right in front of Maho?
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Old 2018-05-03, 17:26   Link #12
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Similar to the original S;G, I will just consider this the anime-canon. As long as everything makes sense in the end, I couldn't care less about it following the VN properly.
Just to be clear: I don't think they -have- to follow the VN closely (if anything, I wished they could cut all the stuff about Kagari in VA branch). If anything, I'm rather curious how they will do the "merge" especially considering the very fast pacing even though they have 2 cours.
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Question:

Why did Okarin apologize to Kurisu for hanging up? It was Maho who did that. Also when did he have the time to call her back?
I think it is simply the same as in VN stray sheep: basically, Okarin was sent back to a similar world line in PR branch (As Kanon has deduced correctly, the war sequence was basically a deja vu effect from the reading steiner, albeit very different in the anime).

Considering how the butterfly effect works, it is quite possible that in the "new stray ship world line", Okabe discussed with Amaedeus Kurisu a bit earlier, then got interrupted by Maho. But instead of having his mental breakdown right away, Okabe could felt guilty and call Amadeus right away, apologize, THEN have his mental breakdown, THEN Okarin from the previous world line overwrite this one.

If I were to illustrate that (= just being some random time measure for illustration sake):

world1 : ========================== [Okarin with Amadeus Kurisu] ==== [Maho Intervenes]==== [Okarin mental breakdown] == [World Line Change]
world2 : [Okarin with Amadeus Kurisu] ===== [Maho Intervenes] ==== [Okarin calls back Amadeus] == [Okarin mental breakdown] = [Okarin overwrote by the previous Okarin]

But I admit this feels quite contrived in the anime considering the time frame is way more strict.
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Old 2018-05-03, 18:04   Link #13
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It's becoming hard for me to argue with you on this point. The more and more I try to remember, the more I just can't. So I can neither agree with you nor form a good counterargument.


I could swear that during the whole episode where he was in the war, actual time passed. I don't think he was just dropped off at the very moment he left.
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Old 2018-05-03, 18:10   Link #14
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I simply read it a week ago and connected the dots while reading opinions from other people in various place, and it fit, "somewhat". The wikia also have a handy (albeit difficult to read) timeline which points out where the events of SG0 fits in the general timeline. There is also that very thorough explanation about the ending and why Operation Arc Light is as important as Operation Skuld.

But as I said, this makes sense in the VN, but the anime is a bit loose, because the world line change occured in the middle of his discussion with Maho there, so as you said, it is a bit difficult to imagine Okarin having enough time to contact Amadeus a second time before being overwritten. In comparison, Okarin got his reading steiner reaction while discussing with Katsumi and Kaede in the VN, so there was way more time for the previous Okarin to apologize to Amaedeus in that context.

The only thing I'm still not sure about is how the USSR world line could end after a month, considering there was obviously not enough time for Startfor or DURPA to have enough information about people with the reading steiner to be aware of a world line change to counter the Russians. This is particularly weird because the Americans needed the cooperation from the Japan government to get Okarin and the other persons with a potential reading steiner like Katsumi. So I have hard time to believe it was them that could fix the world line change caused by the Russians.
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Old 2018-05-03, 18:19   Link #15
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Amadeus is always the cause of the worldline changes. While it has no ability to change the timeline on its own, the knowledge Kurisu holds alone can change time drastically when it falls in the wrong hands.

I am assuming that after Okarin meets Amadeus in the war timeline, something undefined happens that undoes the thing that caused it in the first place.


Basically a case of the present affecting the future, which then by extension affects the past.
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Old 2018-05-03, 18:23   Link #16
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That's the only explanation, which also explains the "weird" route changes with just the phone call, because Leskinen and his pals always track her discussion log, so the few extra information he got can dramatically change the future, thus retroactively change the past.

Now that you mention it, it is very likely Okarin's reaction convinced the Americans he knows about Amadeus "true" value, and somehow could fix that by forcing Okarin to tell them about the time machine stuff.
And since they countered the Russians, the world line is fixed by itself, so they also lost the knowledge of the time machine too.

Great, I can finally stop thinking about it thanks to that discussion
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Old 2018-05-04, 03:55   Link #17
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Aw man, I've been looking at that timeline link but I cannot find the information I want. And the information I did find confuses me even more. I can find when Okarin drifts out of a worldine, but not when he drifts in. Like, after spending a whole month in a war torn Japan, does he really return right to the moment when he left?

Also did that event where Okarin hung up on Amadeus (and then called her back while having no memory of it) really happen on the, er, by lack of a better word, "Stratfor" worldline? I could swear that happened on the "DURPA" worldline.


For that matter, on the "DURPA" worldline, wasn't there a worldline shift around the time he was talking to Mayuri's friends, a while before the party? There was a worldline shift where not a whole lot had changed.
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Old 2018-05-04, 11:24   Link #18
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Aw man, I've been looking at that timeline link but I cannot find the information I want. And the information I did find confuses me even more. I can find when Okarin drifts out of a worldine, but not when he drifts in. Like, after spending a whole month in a war torn Japan, does he really return right to the moment when he left?
He doesn't. The moment he left the USSR worldline, he is back in the lab, and the date is plainly 1/21. He definitely spent nearly a month in that world line and came back to a world line that is quite similar to the "original".
Basically:
-He initially is in 1.129848 Beta
-When the Russians screwed the past, Okarin was sent to 1.382733 Beta (1 month in the USSR world line)
-Once the Americans fixed the past, Okarin was sent to 1.129954 Beta
As the number suggests, it is very very similar to the initial world line, but with a very tiny difference (probably Leskinen who learned about time travel from Katsumi).

Quote:
Also did that event where Okarin hung up on Amadeus (and then called her back while having no memory of it) really happen on the, er, by lack of a better word, "Stratfor" worldline? I could swear that happened on the "DURPA" worldline.
I assume "DURPA" worldline is basically the Stray Sheep Branch. As far as it goes, it happened in that slightly different timeline before he overwrote the Okabe who was talking with Katsumi and Kaede.
Just like the previous question, Okarin is in the 1.129848 Beta world line. However, since he didn't interact much with Amadeus (turned off the phone at the shrine), this changed the world line (which explains why Yuki isn't impersonated by Kagari in this case, as Leskinen probably didn't care that much of time travel without Okarin interacting with Amadeus, therefore leading to a snowball effect on his impact in the future).
He then goes to the 1.064750 Beta world line.

So basically, it is the Okarin in 1.064750 Beta World Line who apologized to Amaedeus before the "present" Okarin overwrote him.

Quote:
For that matter, on the "DURPA" worldline, wasn't there a worldline shift around the time he was talking to Mayuri's friends, a while before the party? There was a worldline shift where not a whole lot had changed.
That's exactly what I was referring to: the switch from 1.129848 (Original Beta world line, Absolute Zero and Closed Epigraph) to 1.064750 (Stray Sheep, which is the start of PR/TA/MG routes).
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Old 2018-05-04, 12:38   Link #19
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I don't remember names of endings. I just know the names of the main antagonist organizations. And which one is more prominent is the main difference between the two main branches.


Anyway, so that scene where Okarin apologizes for suddenly hanging up (but then calling back and finding out he had already called her back before), happened in the, er, "DURPA" branch (the "turn the phone off" branch). The branch where the christmas party didn't happen.

Ok so maybe I'm wrong about the concurrent worldline things (not ruling it out entirely yet), but this really just makes the show even more confusing. Would you agree?


Also I've been thinking. This whole business of "there is only one active worldline at the time" is kind of moot. Because canonically the world should already have shifted to Steins Gate months ago. The entirely of SG0 is the exploration of alternate timelines separate from the main one (but end up being of great importance to reaching Steins Gate).
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Old 2018-05-04, 12:47   Link #20
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Can I ask who are the antagonists of this story? Other than Leskinen, of course.
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