[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Translation Project

[AuraTwilight]

Originally Posted by atruong18

Well I don't hold enough to say anything back, but I need to correct some things with what you said.

Spoiler:

Beatrice was conceptually denied
I made sure and checked back the Episode, and I did not see any red text that was used to deny her, nor did I recall her getting stabbed. It was Battler who was pierced by the Red Key, while Beatrice was eaten by the Goatmen or something of the sort. Battler was pierced by the Red Key, as you said a conceptual weapon, since his theories and arguments were denied, thus his "state of death" from the lost of the ability to think any more."

Sakutarou was conceptually denied
There was no red text that denied him. There was some foreshadowing and hint from EP4 (at the boat) and EP6 (mentioned by Ange if I recall), that there may be more than 1 of him in existence. The statement that "Rosa made [Sakutaro] herself" was not spoken in red text, because that was not the truth. His existence was destroyed by Maria when she saw her mother rip apart Sakutaro, only because she, herself, believed that Sakutaro was one-of-a-kind. Ange discovered the truth, so she performed the 'magic' of ressurection.

The Seven Stakes of Purgatory were conceptually denied
I remembered this scene was in the Tea Party segment. Again, there was no red text used to confirm this. It was stated, but not confirmed. Since it was not confirmed, their existence can be questionable and can continue to exist.

Now for my own answer to the following:
Erika's "conceptual denial" was in the EP6 TIPs after you have completed the Episode. It stated that she fell off her ship and was never discovered. Since the time frame of her disappearance and the Rokkenjima Murder happened around the same time, there were some theories and speculations that she may have landed on the island and was written into the story. However, there was no evidence to back up the claim. I wouldn't say that Devil's Proof would go along with this, because this is after the typhoon passed.

As we learned in EP6, there were many "Bottled-Note" writers (such as Miss AuAu) who made their own story to explain the island and add on to the story. The inclusion of Erika would not affect "the truth" behind the incident, so her existence can be made into the story. Her role is to help discover the truth, but she cannot change or stop it.

As for the number of red truths in Episode 5 and 6 [that conflicts with her], theres the general red truths that applies to all games and the gameboard red truths that only applies to the situation of the current game. Since Erika was made to be included into the gameboard of EP5 and 6, the story was made to include Erika.

Summing it up, Erika's existence does not affect the story, therefore her existence can be made into the story when it was confirmed that there are no signs of her landing on Rokkenjima

Sorry for not spoiling that earlier comment. I didn't bother doing so since it seems everyone in the thread has atleast read that far. Responding, adding on to what this guy added:

Spoiler:

Beatrice was not conceptually denied. She just gave up and "died" in the ways that witches do when they decide to stop living. The "Piece-Beatrice" was just killed normally, and has no bearing on Meta-Reality.

Sakutarou was not conceptually denied. Maria herself just decided he died (which is not the same as denied existence) because his vessel was destroyed. Though Rosa did create Sakutarou. Ur nutz bro.

The Stakes were not conceptually denied. Erika just made up some theory explaining them away. That doesn't mean anything, or Beatrice would've been owned in EP1's Tea Party.

It's also not true that someone's Conceptual Denial has ever been overturned; Erika's the only entity who's ever been effected by it completely and totally like this; there's no precedent, but it's worth noting that Executing her in the Meta TIPS just blanks her out totally, instead of giving a "death" script.

Let's go back on topic; sorry for this diversion.

[einhorn303]

Originally Posted by Shiro Kaisen

Spoiler:

"Furudo Erika" or "Erika" is a title given to a piece on the board! For example, what if it was Shannon?

Spoiler for :

The red truths contradict that theory:

Erika existed on the island at the end of EP6: "The game ended while I [Erika] was inside the guest room."
Tha Erika existing on the island is Erika herself, and not someone pretending to be her: "It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people."

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Spoiler for :

The Stakes were not conceptually denied. Erika just made up some theory explaining them away. That doesn't mean anything, or Beatrice would've been owned in EP1's Tea Party.

That's what Conceptual Denial is: to deny one's concept.

Spoiler for :

Saying that "Erika's conceptual denial is different from everyone else's because of how her tips was written" basically seems to me like swallowing a massive red herring from ryukishi07. The writing format of tips is not Red Truth, and "you can't trust any words that aren't red."

[Evil_Dream]

Great job Witch Hunters, your translation best of all.

Only a few questions I has.

Spoiler for Will's preview:

Is this scene from future and culprit may be Shannon or Kumasawa (as I got they talked about woman, this woman called victim "master")?

Spoiler for Will asks Shannon:

Shannon accepted his objection, but why he aborted order about seeing Kanon with her? And who can control Shannon (even Bernkastel gave Will spectator authority and hasn't need (or has, but couldn't prevent it) to block his orders)?

[Klashikari]

1) That was completely unrelated. It was a quick introduction for Will and his view of mystery genre

2) There is no definite explanation, but Will definitely conclude "something" after that "glitch".

[Altimus]

Hi, I have a little problem with the patch for episode 7, I can't download it, don't know, can someone please tell me if the server is having problems or something and if posible can someone please upload it to Megaupload, Mediafire, Rapidshare, or any of the sort, thanks in advance.

[Roto]

Originally Posted by Altimus

Hi, I have a little problem with the patch for episode 7, I can't download it

What happens, and what patch are you trying to download (Windows, Mac, or platform-independent zip?) I just checked and all of the mirrors are working fine.

[legomaple]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Mentioned only 3-4 times. Didn't appear at all in Episode 7.

Spoiler for Episode 7:

Thank fucking god, i really hated her. She mind raped us all the time. Good thing Will pointed out in the beginning that you don't want to be a intelectual rapist. Sadly he never met Erika.

[AuraTwilight]

I think Erika made a good villain, at the very least. You have to admit, she's REALLY good at being the bad guy.

[Acinem]

I must say something because Erika is my fav character. Ep 8 withoud her is gonna be boring. I think that there is possibility that she is going to show in ep8 but unfortunately she wouldn't have as big role as she did in eps 5 and 6.. and

Spoiler for For ep 7 and 8:

Umineko hasn't ended in ep6 or ep7, cause goal is that whole family returns home after 5th or 6th october. In ep6 Erika made sure that that is impossible. In ep7 we will see *giggle*giggle*

[Zero Sora]

Originally Posted by Acinem

Spoiler for For ep 7 and 8:

Umineko hasn't ended in ep6 or ep7, cause goal is that whole family returns home after 5th or 6th october. In ep6 Erika made sure that that is impossible. In ep7 we will see *giggle*giggle*

Not what we are talking about. We are talking about parts of the story which have ended. For instance:

Originally Posted by Ryukishi

I don’t intend for this to be the end of the story.
Episode six was the end of Battler and Beato’s tale.
Episode seven was the end of (spoilers omitted)
Episode eight is…

[Thunder Book]

Wait woah huh.

How can it be the end of Battler's tale? Seems kind of abrupt if that's the case.

[Leafsnail]

Spoiler for ep6:

I think it means the "end of the fantasy plotline". As in, the battle and romance between Battler and Beatrice in the meta-world, and everyone's progress to the golden land.

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, it's pretty much about their romance. We know everything about the relationship between the two of them, now, pretty much.

[Zero Sora]

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

How can it be the end of Battler's tale? Seems kind of abrupt if that's the case.

I think Ryukishi means it's the end of the romance tale for those two

[einhorn303]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

I think Erika made a good villain, at the very least. You have to admit, she's REALLY good at being the bad guy.

In my view, Erika isn't a villain, but a victim of Bernkastel's coercion. She nearly drowns and is saved by a witch, who threatens her with an endless hell for disobeying. I don't think the average person could resist acting evilly with the threat of an endless hell being held over them.

Some might say she's malicious, but I believe there's something similar to the "Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure" statement for her: All of her villainous acts were committed for the pleasure of intellectual competition, and not for the sake of pleasure in harming people.

Plus, she treats Episodes 5 and 6 like what they really are: the game board of a game. The characters are just "pieces" in a thought experiment/fiction, not actual people existing in reality.

Though I believe that without "love" for her, the truth of her nature cannot be seen.

Edit: Fixed typo.

[AuraTwilight]

You mean Bern's coercion?

Though Bern never made the "endless hell" threat until partway through the 6th game, so that's not any sort of rationalization for Erika's actions. I'd rather talk about this in the appropriate thread though. Or in PMs.

[rogerpepitone]

Anybody else think that Erika didn't fall off the yacht -- instead, she jumped?

Also, have there been any hypotheses about what's with Battler's weird name? (Why didn't he get a typical western name, and why is his name made from the meanings of the kanji, not the pronunciations?)

[Thunder Book]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

You mean Bern's coercion?

Though Bern never made the "endless hell" threat until partway through the 6th game, so that's not any sort of rationalization for Erika's actions. I'd rather talk about this in the appropriate thread though. Or in PMs.

Except Bern did make threats to Erika in the Episode 5 ??? IIRC. I can't remember if she made anymore.

[OgodItsKanon]

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Anybody else think that Erika didn't fall off the yacht -- instead, she jumped?

That could be true. But why would she jump, then?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Anybody else think that Erika didn't fall off the yacht -- instead, she jumped?

Also, have there been any hypotheses about what's with Battler's weird name? (Why didn't he get a typical western name, and why is his name made from the meanings of the kanji, not the pronunciations?)

I pointed out a long while back that there was a WWII ship in the royal navy called the HMS Battler.

But a lot of people have already mentioned the similarity to "Mr.Battle" in the Christie novels.

I'll add another one to the list though. In Australia the term Aussie Battler refers to a working class of people.