(L+CR) Anime-Gataris

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Watched episode 2:

This anime is surprisingly becoming fun to watch.

The argument in the club room somehow reminded me of a few lightnovel purists who keep posting light novel only things at the anime threads without spoiler tag.

Anyway, will keep following this... why is the student council going after them so soon???? >__<

9/10 for hitting right on certain things

I know the feeling. And I've been kind of on both sides. I've had times I read far beyond where things were and found myself trying to word things well to present my tainted perspective without actually referencing anything from outside the material. I've also had several times when people who read the LN first got at me for my opinions that differed from their knowledge. Found it kind of amusing that on one bad occasion of this, they chewed me out for knowing nothing or laughed that I could only think the way I did because the anime stopped before arc X, but when I went back and looked at the LN thread it turned out that the end matched my expectations, in spite of everyone saying it was bull.

I personally would side with the LN girl in this case. She was only trying to point out that while she understood the cut the episode stopped making sense without one missing scene. That's not being elitist or anything like that, and it's not looking down on anime viewers or making fun of them for their perspective based on the adaptation. It's just noting that this one point was hurt by the animators' decisions. I'd say both sides overreacted quite a bit, and largely because both girls had had too many encounters with jerks who were far beyond the other's stance, thus leading them to immediately assume the worst.

Anyway, I'd say as long as someone doesn't say that the anime is inferior to the LN or "just an ad", and they don't go laughing at me for thinking Luke and Leah make a good couple when I still don't have access to the other movies (sorry for the spoilers), I'm fine.

[Stark700]

Episode 3 is out.

Man, I didn't like that Kai at first but he's starting to grown to me now. What a speech.
I'm also starting to like the humor of this anime more, not to mention the numerous anime references.

The anime club lives on!

[serenade_beta]

Spoiler for ep3:

I think the boys-love scene added at the end of the speech was a good touch.
Because without that, it honestly wouldn't have been convincing that Kai's speech somehow moved enough people to vote for them. (Yet a common event in anime)
But by adding that scene, you can say that a few people were moved... and a bunch of girls just voted for them out of their... own interests.

Oh, and the fish died in episode 3, delivering on the "Someone dies on episode 3" rule.

[Liddo-kun]

Watched episode 3:

Really enjoyed the cosplay part. That is true, when Kristine (cosplay friend) and Donna (cos friend) would cosplay in an event, I sometimes can't recognize them unless they call my name. hehe, this episode made want to do some shoots today. ^__^

I do wonder what role neko sempai would do in this anime? Would he give magical girl powers to the female mambers of the club?

[chaos_animagic]

Gonna drop this series at ep 3.


;P


LOL

___ ___ ___

As for the cosplay, yea, because humans remembers others based on their appearance, so if you change your face/hair/head, it's pretty much impossible to recognize who you are. (IE: the same as wearing a Mask)

[SeaDoor]

Whoa! Episode 3 had some serious audience pandering. None the less, I still may drop this.

[grecefar]

It was funny the explanation of the 3 chapter rule, and in the end when one it's starting to ship kai with minoa... it sinks the next second, well they won thanks to that.

[Cloudedmind]

This show was kind of what I was expecting with Gamers from last season, but with video games of course. I'm enjoying this show thus far. Also, that LA Convention Center cameo. xD

[BWTraveller]

Hey, they talked about what I've been telling people for a good while now. The anime's success is based on the anime's sale margins only. It doesn't matter how much the novel/manga sales increase as a result of the show, that won't put a penny in the animators' pockets and as such advertisement is never their sole or even primary priority. Sorry to break it to the jerks who write off LN adaptations as "just an ad" or stuff like that. It's not an ad. It's a legitimate attempt to create the most profitable and hopefully entertaining adaptation they can with the time and resources given to them. And to give the audience as much motivation as possible to buy the Blu-Ray without annoying the same audience so much they quit.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Hey, they talked about what I've been telling people for a good while now. The anime's success is based on the anime's sale margins only. It doesn't matter how much the novel/manga sales increase as a result of the show, that won't put a penny in the animators' pockets and as such advertisement is never their sole or even primary priority. Sorry to break it to the jerks who write off LN adaptations as "just an ad" or stuff like that. It's not an ad. It's a legitimate attempt to create the most profitable and hopefully entertaining adaptation they can with the time and resources given to them. And to give the audience as much motivation as possible to buy the Blu-Ray without annoying the same audience so much they quit.

That's still only part of the picture though. Because anime shows can't rely on things like advertiser money, the show also brought out that they're often headed by a committee. What's important for each member of the committee is going to vary based on what they're bringing to the table. Disc sales are most likely going to be the most important factor for the production studio making the anime. So, yes more disc sales means more money in their pocket. However, when an anime is an adaptation of an LN or manga or game, you better believe one of the main objectives for the license holder who will also be a part of the committee, is to increase readership, viewership or player engagement for their property. So, for them anime adaptions are just another portion of the marketing scheme. They are effectively long ads for the original property. That doesn't mean the anime production studio and the other members of the committee aren't still trying to "create the most profitable and hopefully entertaining adaptation they can with the time and resources given to them," because more disc sales means more money for everyone. But that doesn't change the fact that they are also long marketing ads for the source material to hopefully also raise the sales for those, especially long term.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

That's still only part of the picture though. Because anime shows can't rely on things like advertiser money, the show also brought out that they're often headed by a committee. What's important for each member of the committee is going to vary based on what they're bringing to the table. Disc sales are most likely going to be the most important factor for the production studio making the anime. So, yes more disc sales means more money in their pocket. However, when an anime is an adaptation of an LN or manga or game, you better believe one of the main objectives for the license holder who will also be a part of the committee, is to increase readership, viewership or player engagement for their property. So, for them anime adaptions are just another portion of the marketing scheme. They are effectively long ads for the original property. That doesn't mean the anime production studio and the other members of the committee aren't still trying to "create the most profitable and hopefully entertaining adaptation they can with the time and resources given to them," because more disc sales means more money for everyone. But that doesn't change the fact that they are also long marketing ads for the source material to hopefully also raise the sales for those, especially long term.

Do they really have that much power though? From what I've heard elsewhere, they mainly just provide the money and pay for the time slots and the like. At most I'd imagine they're like the publishers in New Game, who have some say on some matters, particularly things like advertisement and distribution (that is, air time and such things), but not all that much over the actual content of the show. This "one big ad" crap I've heard several times gives the impression, at least to me, of a group unified under the goal of producing something that'll boost book sales without concern over whether they make something that's really entertaining or worth watching or "quality", when really the impression I get is more one of a studio mostly full of people who are indeed trying to make the best product they can while struggling to deal with a single picky investor who has some power to interfere with them. Again like New Game, where some large-scale decisions and approval are handled by this individual but the real act of creation is handled by creators who take pride in creating. The impression cheapens the animators' work, puts blame on them for things that are really the fault of a separate company.

[Liddo-kun]

Watched episode 4:

Surprisingly enjoyable episode... I'm starting to like the cosplay girl. How she organized the team as those who buy materials and those who sew... reminds me of how our cosplay group created the Kotori mogyutto version for my friend (that time some of us bought cloth, and I'm the one who talked to the tailor and made follow ups). XD

Hmm, and the trivia about cd sales of anime is useful too.

Looking forward to next ep.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Do they really have that much power though? From what I've heard elsewhere, they mainly just provide the money and pay for the time slots and the like. At most I'd imagine they're like the publishers in New Game, who have some say on some matters, particularly things like advertisement and distribution (that is, air time and such things), but not all that much over the actual content of the show. This "one big ad" crap I've heard several times gives the impression, at least to me, of a group unified under the goal of producing something that'll boost book sales without concern over whether they make something that's really entertaining or worth watching or "quality", when really the impression I get is more one of a studio mostly full of people who are indeed trying to make the best product they can while struggling to deal with a single picky investor who has some power to interfere with them. Again like New Game, where some large-scale decisions and approval are handled by this individual but the real act of creation is handled by creators who take pride in creating. The impression cheapens the animators' work, puts blame on them for things that are really the fault of a separate company.

For most LN adaptations, the studio isn’t even on the production committee. They’re hired to animate the work after all is said and done. The studio has little creative control over it (which is probably one of the reasons most of these LN adaptations adapt the source material so closely)

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Do they really have that much power though? From what I've heard elsewhere, they mainly just provide the money and pay for the time slots and the like. At most I'd imagine they're like the publishers in New Game, who have some say on some matters, particularly things like advertisement and distribution (that is, air time and such things), but not all that much over the actual content of the show. This "one big ad" crap I've heard several times gives the impression, at least to me, of a group unified under the goal of producing something that'll boost book sales without concern over whether they make something that's really entertaining or worth watching or "quality", when really the impression I get is more one of a studio mostly full of people who are indeed trying to make the best product they can while struggling to deal with a single picky investor who has some power to interfere with them. Again like New Game, where some large-scale decisions and approval are handled by this individual but the real act of creation is handled by creators who take pride in creating. The impression cheapens the animators' work, puts blame on them for things that are really the fault of a separate company.

Spoiler for Putting this in spoiler tags to save space, but it's not actually a spoiler:

Every situation is going to be slightly different. How much input or lack there of each member gets is likely going to be different from show to show. But, calling something an ad for X really shouldn't have any value judgement associated with it. Yes, I've seen people using the term in a negative connotation as well. But that's their problem, not mine. How people personally feel about something doesn't change what something actually is. And what is an advertisement:

-any public notice, as a printed display in a newspaper, short film on television, announcement on radio, etc, designed to sell goods, or publicize an event (taken from dictionary.com).

-a notice or announcement in a public medium promoting a product, service, or event or publicizing a job vacancy (taken from google)

When it comes to adaptations most studios have been approached by a publisher to produce their work. In some cases maybe the studio heard that the publisher was interested in making an anime for a certain product and approached them. That episode in Shirobako comes to mind when they pitched why their studio would be a good fit for the anime that the publisher was looking to have made. Regardless of who approached whom, in the end the studio is being hired to produce and promote someones else work in anime form.

Theirs also the fact that most adaptations are of works that aren't even close to being finished yet. Let's be honest what reasons would the publishers have to even bother having an anime created for a work that's not even completed, unless you also want to promote that work and get more people to buy it. So even if the publisher has little creative input that doesn't change that they're hiring the studio to help market their product, and that they have to have some type of incentive or believe they're going to gain something from this endeavor, and that's usually going to include increasing revenue and sales for the source, as well as sales from discs. That doesn't mean the studios aren't pouring their heart and souls into their works, or that the publishers themselves don't care whether the anime ends up being good or bad though. A bad anime can sometimes have a greater lasting impact over a good one. And nobody wants their advertising campaign to go bad *cough* Dove*cough*.

Of course there are also going to be some situations where the manga or LN is already hugely popular and the publisher wants an anime made to get sales from those who prefer to, or only watch anime. In which case high disc sales may in fact be the main end goal, with increased sales of the source lesser down their list of goals. Were any particular anime falls we may never know as consumers, but my point was that yes many anime are and are going to be another form of marketing and advertising for the source, but no that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Nor does that preclude it from also being something else, like a way to tell a good story in animated form. An anime being another form of advertisement doesn't suddenly make it cheap or devoid of love and care. The two things aren't mutually exclusive, and people really shouldn't see it that way. If other people want to see it that way, well whatever. A bad anime is a bad anime regardless of why it was made, and a good anime is a good anime regardless of why it was made.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Endscape

For most LN adaptations, the studio isn’t even on the production committee. They’re hired to animate the work after all is said and done. The studio has little creative control over it (which is probably one of the reasons most of these LN adaptations adapt the source material so closely)

OK, you're going to have to give me sources for this claim. Especially since I've seen other sourced claims that basically the publishers' roles amount to little more than the financial aspect, including paying for the majority of the expenses and a partial coverage of potential losses and buying the time slots on stations. A very, VERY different image from what, if I understand you right, sounds like the publishers having full control and the studio is just there to draw what they're told to draw. Bear in mind, I'm being very broad and using "the studio" not to refer purely to the animation studio but to every aspect of the project that's about the anime product, not the book.

Also, yes, from the sources I'd seen previously the publishers do approach the other company(s) to produce their work. In some sense it is an ad, to a small extent, as the people that hold the legal license are only consenting to the adaptation on account of potential advertisement value. But again, it's incredibly inaccurate to write it off in such a way when really everyone else makes no money off of just doing their job. The publishers cover some expenses, they don't offer near enough to make it a profitable task; the only way everyone except those publishers is going to make anything out of it is if they make something that'll sell ITSELF, not its original. And even then it has to sell a lot. That's what separates it from an ad. They're not selling an ad to a company, they're getting help from a company in their attempt to make something they'll have to sell to the public. But yes, they are limited in the products the publishers would fund adaptations for. From what I've heard, generally it's limited to a few super-popular series where the publishers think it'll catch a few eyes that don't read enough LNs or manga, slightly-less-popular series that fell under the radar and might get more attention with an anime, and on occasion completed series that the publishers think might get a post-completion boost. It's also a reason why we see big time gaps sometimes, as you need the publishers to believe that the current sales will go higher with a new season, and if they think everyone who'd buy on account of a new season is already buying after the most recent season, the projected profits just won't outweigh the expense.

Basically, there's a difference between a product that couldn't exist unless someone thought it would help advertise another product and a product that only exists for the sake of advertising that other product. Anime adaptations are the former, but sometimes claims of the latter make it sound like the company's not actually trying, and that's seriously insulting. Frankly, the only series I'd buy as "ads" are series based on RPGs, which have the whole material already produced but still seem frequently prone to stopping at the halfway point, finishing off with basically "so that was really the mid-boss, now our adventure truly begins".

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

OK, you're going to have to give me sources for this claim. Especially since I've seen other sourced claims that basically the publishers' roles amount to little more than the financial aspect, including paying for the majority of the expenses and a partial coverage of potential losses and buying the time slots on stations. A very, VERY different image from what, if I understand you right, sounds like the publishers having full control and the studio is just there to draw what they're told to draw. Bear in mind, I'm being very broad and using "the studio" not to refer purely to the animation studio but to every aspect of the project that's about the anime product, not the book.

Think about what you just wrote. Do you really think the production committee is going to shell out all the money, bear the risk of the project and let the contracted studio who isn't on the committee have creative control? It'd be like spending millions to build a house but letting the architect do whatever they want.

For sources, see here

Also, yes, from the sources I'd seen previously the publishers do approach the other company(s) to produce their work. In some sense it is an ad, to a small extent, as the people that hold the legal license are only consenting to the adaptation on account of potential advertisement value.

The word highlighted tells me you're not getting my point. The publishers are not the ones consenting for the anime to be created, they're the main drive behind it, at least in the case of LN adaptations we're talking about.

For more popular IP's that are guarantee to turn a profit, other parties may approach the IP owner, like what happened with Koe no Katachi. But that is almost never the case with the seasonal LN adaptations that people refer to as ads.

But again, it's incredibly inaccurate to write it off in such a way when really everyone else makes no money off of just doing their job. The publishers cover some expenses, they don't offer near enough to make it a profitable task; the only way everyone except those publishers is going to make anything out of it is if they make something that'll sell ITSELF, not its original. And even then it has to sell a lot.

The whole point of a production committee is to ensure that all parties can make at least some profit without eating too much of a loss, since it's a rare adaptation that makes a profit in the short term.

That's what separates it from an ad. They're not selling an ad to a company, they're getting help from a company in their attempt to make something they'll have to sell to the public.

It's more like they're ordering an ad, actually.

But yes, they are limited in the products the publishers would fund adaptations for. From what I've heard, generally it's limited to a few super-popular series where the publishers think it'll catch a few eyes that don't read enough LNs or manga, slightly-less-popular series that fell under the radar and might get more attention with an anime, and on occasion completed series that the publishers think might get a post-completion boost.

Like I said earlier, in the case of the really super popular IP's, the publisher may not have to fund it, since production companies or other entities would be more more willing to bear risk to recoup a greater profit.

But the vast majority of adaptations are not of IP's like that, they're of series that would never have gotten an adaptation if the publisher didn't push for it.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Think about what you just wrote. Do you really think the production committee is going to shell out all the money, bear the risk of the project and let the contracted studio who isn't on the committee have creative control? It'd be like spending millions to build a house but letting the architect do whatever they want.

Reverse that though. Do you think an anime company's going to actually work on something

For sources, see here

Thank you. However, there were a few things you claimed that weren't really mentioned hardly at all. For instance, it doesn't go into any real detail about what level of total control over things like script and overall creation the committee has. Content as I understand it isn't a matter of the serious production, it's a more general thing like whether there's action elements or such things. Again, similar to the investors in New Game who couldn't really control the game itself but had a lot of say about what was and wasn't allowed or demanded. Additionally, it didn't say that the publishers are in control, and they're the only ones involved that are in it for book sales. The music companies aren't going to get any revenue from increases in the publishers' preexisting light novel series, but they will get money from the show's popularity as well as interest in any music they contribute. Again, you're not dealing with something built around the concept of advertisement, you're dealing with a serious work by a lot of people who want to make this specific product work of its own accord.

The word highlighted tells me you're not getting my point. The publishers are not the ones consenting for the anime to be created, they're the main drive behind it, at least in the case of LN adaptations we're talking about.

For more popular IP's that are guarantee to turn a profit, other parties may approach the IP owner, like what happened with Koe no Katachi. But that is almost never the case with the seasonal LN adaptations that people refer to as ads.

Again, that's not what I'm seeing. You have an individual with a lot of influence yes, and they contribute a large amount of money to the production, but there's still more hands in there than that, and everyone except for that publisher is interested first and foremost in making something that sells as an item, not as an ad, because it's the sale of that item's Blu-rays and anime merchandise that will fill their pockets. No one but the publisher will make ANY money off of an anime that bombs but got some more people to buy the book. Again, this is what makes it different from an ad. You've got a company that's still risking a ton on a venture, not with any expectation that they'll benefit in any way from some client's products selling well, but with profits only coming in if they are able to make something that actually sells. Describing it as "just ads" makes the studio sound like sell-outs, but they'd have to be the most imbecilic sellouts in history to sell themselves for what would amount to a huge deficit.

The whole point of a production committee is to ensure that all parties can make at least some profit without eating too much of a loss, since it's a rare adaptation that makes a profit in the short term.

Yet another thing with no evidence from what you gave me. Are you seriously suggesting that the committee would, or even COULD, make the publishers pay part of their profits for their book sales? Because there's absolutely no evidence presented anywhere that I've seen and I've heard other sources state what I said earlier: the publishers pay part of the expenses and cover part of the losses, but the animation studio and other entities don't profit from LN sales at all. As stated in the episode and among the people I've heard, the animators themselves sink or swim based on Bu-ray sales and a few merchandise items connected to the anime; the committee is that dark background group they mentioned that has tons of influence but still doesn't change the source of income.

It's more like they're ordering an ad, actually.

Please explain, I honestly have no idea what you mean by this. How is the animation studio ordering an ad? They're not selling an ad, because generally the publishers won't pay them enough to actually make it profitable without a substantial success in Blu-ray sales. That's not an ad.

Like I said earlier, in the case of the really super popular IP's, the publisher may not have to fund it, since production companies or other entities would be more more willing to bear risk to recoup a greater profit.

But the vast majority of adaptations are not of IP's like that, they're of series that would never have gotten an adaptation if the publisher didn't push for it.

I realize that there are some small number of series popular enough that it switches to animators and other entities seeking to individually fund the production of an item, which would raise issues of its own with the publishers having to debate whether there might be any kind of risk to releasing to any particular point (there may be some concern that people who watched a well-produced anime might not feel the need to buy the books). But I too was referring to the majority, the pushed items, which again amount to the few huge items that they think are so huge the increased audience could produce similarly huge increases in sales, and items that are OK but not great where they think increasing the audience could seriously improve the visibility of the product and thus get the numbers to a more desirable point.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Reverse that though. Do you think an anime company's going to actually work on something

They're getting paid, so yes.

Thank you. However, there were a few things you claimed that weren't really mentioned hardly at all. For instance, it doesn't go into any real detail about what level of total control over things like script and overall creation the committee has. Content as I understand it isn't a matter of the serious production, it's a more general thing like whether there's action elements or such things. Again, similar to the investors in New Game who couldn't really control the game itself but had a lot of say about what was and wasn't allowed or demanded. Additionally, it didn't say that the publishers are in control, and they're the only ones involved that are in it for book sales. The music companies aren't going to get any revenue from increases in the publishers' preexisting light novel series, but they will get money from the show's popularity as well as interest in any music they contribute. Again, you're not dealing with something built around the concept of advertisement, you're dealing with a serious work by a lot of people who want to make this specific product work of its own accord.

Considering that they're not on the committee, for the most part, studios aren't going to have that much say in what to animate. Music producers and merchandise makers aren't going to care about that either, they're here for their own reasons, leaving the publishers and the producers.

Again, that's not what I'm seeing. You have an individual with a lot of influence yes, and they contribute a large amount of money to the production, but there's still more hands in there than that, and everyone except for that publisher is interested first and foremost in making something that sells as an item, not as an ad, because it's the sale of that item's Blu-rays and anime merchandise that will fill their pockets.

No one but the publisher will make ANY money off of an anime that bombs but got some more people to buy the book. Again, this is what makes it different from an ad. You've got a company that's still risking a ton on a venture, not with any expectation that they'll benefit in any way from some client's products selling well, but with profits only coming in if they are able to make something that actually sells.

The merchandising company will make money if people buy the merchandise (which they do), music production will make money if people buy the CD's, etc.

Describing it as "just ads" makes the studio sound like sell-outs, but they'd have to be the most imbecilic sellouts in history to sell themselves for what would amount to a huge deficit.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Why does doing contracted work make them sellouts?

Yet another thing with no evidence from what you gave me. Are you seriously suggesting that the committee would, or even COULD, make the publishers pay part of their profits for their book sales? Because there's absolutely no evidence presented anywhere that I've seen and I've heard other sources state what I said earlier: the publishers pay part of the expenses and cover part of the losses, but the animation studio and other entities don't profit from LN sales at all.

That's not what I said, though? The production committee splits the costs and profits through whatever percentage the members come up with. The person who bears most of the initial cost will get the highest percentage of the profit.

As stated in the episode and among the people I've heard, the animators themselves sink or swim based on Bu-ray sales and a few merchandise items connected to the anime; the committee is that dark background group they mentioned that has tons of influence but still doesn't change the source of income.

The studio is not usually on the committee, so they get an extremely low part of the profit unless they are. You may be confusing the studio with the anime production company.

Please explain, I honestly have no idea what you mean by this. How is the animation studio ordering an ad? They're not selling an ad, because generally the publishers won't pay them enough to actually make it profitable without a substantial success in Blu-ray sales. That's not an ad.

It's the committee that's ordering advertisement, not the studio. The studio gets paid upfront. Here's another link you may be interested in.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Endscape

They're getting paid, so yes.

Sorry, something cut what I said there. I was trying to say do you think they'd work on something that wouldn't make them money because actually their profit comes from sales, not from sponsorship. The sponsors DON'T cover the whole bill. They just cover a large portion of it and provide some insurance against losses, but that still means that the studio is EXPENDING money to make an anime, above and beyond what they're being "paid" for, and thus would be unlikely to do work that won't be profitable as it really only boosts the sales of another product that doesn't affect them.

Considering that they're not on the committee, for the most part, studios aren't going to have that much say in what to animate. Music producers and merchandise makers aren't going to care about that either, they're here for their own reasons, leaving the publishers and the producers.

Once again, it doesn't say how much control the studio has over the actual plot, only the CONTENT. There's a HUGE difference. The content can be a very broad concept involving how violent or nonviolent the show is, how much emphasis is placed on certain fields, but not necessarily the deeper specifics. There ARE limits to how much control an anime studio could afford to relinquish to people who, as you said, don't really care about that.

The merchandising company will make money if people buy the merchandise (which they do), music production will make money if people buy the CD's, etc.

Not my point. My point is that you have a lot of hands in the pot, and only one of them is interested in advertisement of the original product. The rest of the companies are interested in their parts of the product and also the product as a whole because the sales of their products depend on the overall anime being itself popular. Music from an anime is going to see more profit from said anime being popular than it is from some book it was based on being popular.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Why does doing contracted work make them sellouts?

Because you talk of it like instead of making art they're just trying to make a 240-minute commercial to trick viewers into buying books. And it makes them look like imbecilic sellouts because like I said before it would amount to being paid for something that would cost them as much as or more likely MORE than that payment, resulting in them LOSING money.

That's not what I said, though? The production committee splits the costs and profits through whatever percentage the members come up with. The person who bears most of the initial cost will get the highest percentage of the profit.

My point is if it's "just an ad", then the profits all lie in the publisher's book sales, which is not part of the profits the committee is distributing. And thus, again, even if the publisher is forking over the vast majority of the money, you're not going to get an animator willing to work for a committee that's only interested in advertisement and not in actual anime sales.

The studio is not usually on the committee, so they get an extremely low part of the profit unless they are. You may be confusing the studio with the anime production company.

I said earlier that I was lumping a huge area into the term "studio", or did you miss that? When I say "studio" I am referring to the entire company/group of companies that are working to produce an anime, everyone whose profits depend on that anime's sales and not the sales of some other product. I just found "studio" to be a little faster to write than "production company", even though I knew that it wasn't really accurate.

Anyway, my point was that the image of anime, even LN-based anime, as being "nothing but an advertisement for the books" is a gross insult to a huge number of individuals from a variety of companies who won't make a penny off those books and who are themselves only getting money from sales of the anime and related products (like CDs for the music company). The vast array of people who come together to produce an anime are not just getting paid to make someone else's product more popular, and this someone else doesn't pay near enough to make it actually profitable for these people to do so. And again, that's the image that's given in the episode: anime companies depend on the anime itself selling, not any product it derived from. The people that ultimately make the anime are making their decisions based on whether or not their decisions will help make their product into something worthwhile that'll sell. That's why there's more to anime than just "advertisement": it is still art done by artists who want to make quality art with what money they're given, and whose paychecks are dependent on that art selling. And frequently when people say stuff like "it's just a glorified ad" they're being very dismissive and insulting toward people who frankly, wherever their paychecks came from, seem from everything I've seen to still legitimately care about what they're making and want to produce something that'll impress and move in some way. It just doesn't feel right to dismiss something people work so hard on, something that at least for some people involved will only make money if it sells a LOT, so easily.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Endscape

The merchandising company will make money if people buy the merchandise (which they do), music production will make money if people buy the CD's, etc.

Interesting discussion going on, unfortunately I don't have much to add since my only knowledge about anime production comes from watching Shirobako.

Anyway, just a question to you Endscape. Recently, I bought a music cd from Hina Logi anime. Did everyone profit from it or just the music production team?