(L) Re:Creators

[RDNexus]

Getting something published may not mean much in this case.
It may really be a matter of recognition and impact on the masses.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Since Selesia came from the anime, wouldn't this mean that the changes to her character or her world made by the author & illustrator won't do jackshit until it's actually broadcast in the anime? And even that can't be 100% guaranteed to be successful .

[DemonneoPT]

Originally Posted by xrick

Getting something published may not mean much in this case.
It may really be a matter of recognition and impact on the masses.

If that ends up being true then it eliminates the hypothesis of the Military Girl being a creation of the suicide girl or from Souta. Unless she came from the future or something like that...

[nicky.]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Since Selesia came from the anime, wouldn't this mean that the changes to her character or her world made by the author & illustrator won't do jackshit until it's actually broadcast in the anime? And even that can't be 100% guaranteed to be successful .

Correct, that is exactly why the logic is bs.
In addition, even IF new material airs on TV, there's no guarantee it will stick in the mind's of the fans or be well received by the audience. It's a cop-out plot convenience.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Since Selesia came from the anime, wouldn't this mean that the changes to her character or her world made by the author & illustrator won't do jackshit until it's actually broadcast in the anime? And even that can't be 100% guaranteed to be successful .

Actually, there is a way around a that: fanon. What if fanon is strong enough that it can change how a character's act?

Originally Posted by DemonneoPT

If that ends up being true then it eliminates the hypothesis of the Military Girl being a creation of the suicide girl or from Souta. Unless she came from the future or something like that...

MUP seems to be a special case.

[Wandering_Youth]

Originally Posted by xrick

Getting something published may not mean much in this case.
It may really be a matter of recognition and impact on the masses.

It's probably something like the strength and power of a diety depends on the faith, zeal or number of followers etc etc. If more people are exposed to the drawing or scene and get really hyped about it then it will give power to the redhead to manifest her new abilities. Three nerds in a room just ain't going to cut it to allow her to manifest her newly created powers. : ) They need to post that picture or scene on reddit, 4chan, animesuki and whatever major anime forums out there!

[Alhazred]

The theory incorporating the importance of the "impression on the audience" is consistent with Meteora's earlier theory that the "created" worlds are the inadvertent result of information density. Greater mind-share in the cognition of a larger audience means more information generated. An anime popularizing a work might tilt the conditions of the created world toward the anime's presentation of it- so yeah, "published canon" might not even be that key to way the created worlds work, if the fanon is strong enough in the public consciousness.

[nicky.]

Originally Posted by Wandering_Youth

It's probably something like the strength and power of a diety depends on the faith, zeal or number of followers etc etc. If more people are exposed to the drawing or scene and get really hyped about it then it will give power to the redhead to manifest her new abilities. Three nerds in a room just ain't going to cut it to allow her to manifest her newly created powers. : ) They need to post that picture or scene on reddit, 4chan, animesuki and whatever major anime forums out there!

So then they should be calling the people (fans) the "God", not the writers; since apparently the authors hold zero power at all, for some dumb reason.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by nicky.

So then they should be calling the people (fans) the "God", not the writers. Since apparently the authors hold zero power at all, for some dumb reason.

The authors are the creators because they made the story. The fans are the ones who bring it to life.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by nicky.

So then they should be calling the people (fans) the "God", not the writers. Since apparently the authors hold zero power at all, for some dumb reason.

These are all still theories that the characters are actively testing and proving/disproving. They still don't know that the people who initially conceived of them are somehow less important after the point of conception, so the way they act errs on the side of what "feels right" to each one of them. What, do you want all the rules of the world spelled out in clear, concise language by some mouthpiece character who knows all?

[nicky.]

Originally Posted by bakato

The authors are the creators because they made the story. The fans are the ones who bring it to life.

That make no sense. How come it all of a sudden happened now and not, for example, 2 years ago? Why not with animes and novels that came out earlier/are from the past.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by nicky.

That make no sense. How come it all of a sudden happened now? Why not with animes and novels that came out earlier/are from the past.

Learning "How and why did this happen now?" is probably central to plot of the story. They aren't just going to tell us. That would be no fun.

[nicky.]

That's a valid point. In which case, this should probably be labeled as a "mystery" genre as well.
Someone should probably change the tags on here to prevent confusion for future individuals.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by bakato

The authors are the creators because they made the story. The fans are the ones who bring it to life.

But what about MiliHime? I'm assuming Sota has a great deal of knowledge about popular characters in stories, yet, he did not recognize her at all. Can we be sure that fans are the catalyst to bring it to life?

[nicky.]

Originally Posted by frubam

But what about MiliHime? I'm assuming Sota has a great deal of knowledge about popular characters in stories, yet, he did not recognize her at all. Can we be sure that fans are the catalyst to bring it to life?

I hope it's not the catalyst, that's all I know.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by nicky.

Correct, that is exactly why the logic is bs.
In addition, even IF new material airs on TV, there's no guarantee it will stick in the mind's of the fans or be well received by the audience. It's a cop-out plot convenience.

Uh no. It's not a plot convenience since the change made by the author & illustrator doesn't work (yet). It will only be plot convenience if the changes actually works before it being published. In fact, I think this episode executed how the characters are trying to experiment on what the author can and cannot do very well. And it's also thanks to Meteora's sharp scientific mind that they quickly get to the points and tried everything they can to add changes to Selesia, and when that doesn't work, they deduced that the problem might be because the lack of acknowledgement by the audience.

As for Creators being "useless", well that pretty natural when it comes to multimedia and working with a lot of people. Some creators don't even know how to draw their characters (hence the need for illustrators) and more or less got left out when it comes to anime adaptations. Since Selesia came from the anime, it's makes a lot of sense for the creator (of the light novel) to not being able to do much.

Originally Posted by nicky.

That make no sense. How come it all of a sudden happened now and not, for example, 2 years ago? Why not with animes and novels that came out earlier/are from the past.

That's pretty much the point of this freakin' show: to uncover why these things are happening now and what the characters will do about it afterwards. That's why we follow the show episode by episode. My god, you don't even know the point of this show, do you?

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Actually, there is a way around a that: fanon. What if fanon is strong enough that it can change how a character's act?

Uh, if fanon is strong enough to change things, I think it will be pretty chaotic .

[nicky.]

I suppose I must not know the point of this show then after all. I mean, it's been ambiguous thus far; your guess is as good as any.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Uh, if fanon is strong enough to change things, I think it will be pretty chaotic .

If it turns out that fanon can be a factor then we probably aren't talking about it on a scale of "one or two otakus' personal headcanons." If information density is the key then it would probably need to be widely assumed/accepted fanons- but that wouldn't necessarily preclude a case where a single creator can strongly affect a world, if the world is not strongly influenced by the cognition of others (unpublished?) and the creator is absolutely obsessed with the world to the point of disassociation with reality and possibly self-destruction, such that they can single-handedly imagine all the information necessary to realize a fully formed world (perhaps Setsuna/Suicide Girl's relationship to Gunpuku's world?)

[nicky.]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

If it turns out that fanon can be a factor then we probably aren't talking about it on a scale of "one or two otakus' personal headcanons." If information density is the key then it would probably need to be widely assumed/accepted fanons- but that wouldn't necessarily preclude a case where a single creator can strongly affect a world, if the world is not strongly influenced by the cognition of others (unpublished?) and the creator is absolutely obsessed with the world to the point of disassociation with reality and possibly self-destruction, such that they can single-handedly imagine all the information necessary to realize a fully formed world (perhaps Setsuna/Suicide Girl's relationship to Gunpuku's world?)

Hmm, you might be giving this anime too much credit.

[Diluc]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

We know that Yuya is almost certainly wrong about why they appeared in this world. It's not because they're popular.

And I was pretty sure the revision attempt wouldn't work. You can't revise a "created" world. The old one doesn't cease to exist, because the old copies still exist. What you would end up doing is creating a new world that is similar to the old one but with the revisions incorporated. They wrote a new story that had Celestia with the flaming sword ability. If they summoned the Celestia from that new story, she would have that ability.

No, i think he figured out handly but not on all straw, i think there are two method to summon fiction character : one is from popularity and another is from unknown way that does not require fandom recognition and Himegimi definitely came from second option.


Also i'd like to say since it revealed characters summoned from their own adaptation not from series ( seles from anime not from ln ) this mean the world of ln/manga/anime are difference, there are possibility to have same character from different source summoned at same time.
I wonder how characters from ln/manga will look like?
They are probably white and black