AnimeSuki Forums

Fireminer · 2013-11-13, 08:01

So, Original Character is a type of character that was created by fanfic writers to serve a role in their writer. Guess that we all know the above. And I wouldn't go on and debating about Mary Sue/Gary Stu. The problem I want to state in here is: Some of these authors lack imagination. They never seen the big picture, instead choose to fufil their own wish in that tiny cage which we call canon. Or more exactly, I want to complain about is the "un-liveness" of Original Character. Not that I hate them - I've seen some really interesting one - but most of them are just the vision of the writer in that setting. It's true that you need to live with the character, but not live AS the character. A lot of OC writers today are just like that, they let themself clouded. Instead of making their characters "alive" with small details, all could they do is showing of how powerful are their characters.

So what is your though of this? Are everything Ok, or Original Character creation writers should try to have a wider vision?

Kotohono · 2013-11-13, 08:24

I think original characters in fanfiction can definitely work when they don't become the focal point of the work.

I find it especially unforgivable when the OC becomes an author insert for a romance with their preferred character from the series, this type of character is practically a deal breaker for me, if I know a fanfiction uses this type, I find it very hard to be interested in reading it.

While I find generally original characters that work best tend to be in a more villain, or antagonist role rather than someone whom joins the heroes or protagonist randomly since it allows the writer to tell a story in the series while having a new conflict for some party of the story where canonically it's unknown in past or future sense what those characters face at a certain point. Of course it's possible to this badly as well, I just find it less likely to be bad than the above type.

And side characters is mixed, but mostly positive depending on what their role and character is. But for one to become a member of the main cast, well I can't say I've really enjoyed many that took this route.

ZeroXSEED · 2013-11-13, 09:41

Bullshit OC with out of placed origin and hax powerset is the worst example that should be avoided.

Unique doesn't meant gamebreaker, unique means solving things that canon character can't because their inherent limitation in canon.

The task of OC, unless they're featured as well written main character(s) is to make the canon character SHINE. I personally thought the easiest way to write OC without veering into Sue territory is to write them as secondary characters, heroes or villains alike.

Fireminer · 2013-11-13, 09:46

Tch... Right, but it's truly aiming at main OC character writer like Strato here. Alive, that's one of Literature most sacred attribute. After all, doesn't it's the mirror of the Infinity of Life?

ZeroXSEED · 2013-11-13, 09:52

Hence I said easiest, not meant the best way to write OC.

Limited spotlight given to secondary OC can flesh them out, and yet not overtoook the roles that can be done by canon characters.

For me, OC is there fo fill the gap, fixing plotholes, as well as stimulating a whole new dynamic with the closed circle of the canon cast. Not only this made the Canon cast more three dimensional, but it also open a new path toward character development.

That aside, there's nothing inherently wrong with making OC as main characters. This is especially good if you want to write a gaiden/AU sidestories. New history, new perspective, new social dynamic that can bring a whole new flavor to the fandom instead of leaving them disgusted.

SaintessHeart · 2013-11-13, 10:55

@ TS : My suggestion is that you enjoy writing about OCs while you can.

Fireminer · 2013-11-13, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

@ TS : My suggestion is that you enjoy writing about OCs while you can.

I failed to see the connection.

SaintessHeart · 2013-11-13, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireminer

I failed to see the connection.

Go read up on the TPP's copyright segment.

Fireminer · 2013-11-13, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Go read up on the TPP's copyright segment.

Ah that! But who care, like SOPA and PIPA!

Dr. Casey · 2013-11-13, 18:49

It's important that original characters fit stylistically with the series that's being written about, but that's really my only thought on the matter. Depending on the original character and how they're used, the character's presence can be a wonderful thing that enhances and enriches the story or a terrible thing that destroys it. The all-encompassing, black and white hatred that so many fanfic circles hold towards OCs has always seemed pretty irrational to me.

EscapeReality · 2013-11-13, 19:15

I'm a bit of a purist, so OCs make me cringe. If the author is trying to satisfy his/her own fantasies, I can understand that but still I don't like the idea (like what Dr. Casey said, I would like to see them stylistically fit, but that's often hard for someone who's not the original author). But it is a valid thing to create original personalities and to see how they cope with certain surroundings, as doing so can reveal interesting things about the canon itself if done effectively. Fanfiction is all about injecting your own take into an established story, isn't it?

Fireminer · 2013-11-13, 19:36

That is right! The character must be fit to the surrounding, but isn't it the writer job's to expand the surrounding? I mean, we all one to see strong character, canon or not in a fanfic, right? (Beside me. In my Infinite Stratos fic, I actually made Ichika couldn't pilot IS.) The point that I want to state here is: Too many writers are single-minded. What do they dream? A badass character that beating all obstacles, wooing all girls and knowing all things. And they did it straightly. What is worse, a large number of readers are actually encouraging these authors. I fear that this could lead to a lower demanding standard on both the author and the reader.

LeoXiao · 2013-11-13, 20:24

I don't mind it if it works.

Fireminer · 2013-11-13, 22:10

@Leo: More specific, please!

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2013-11-13, 22:15

OC's can be pretty painful to read, since a few authors tend to make them just blatantly overpowered thus supplanting the story with textual self gratification. A character that exists solely to 'fix' problems makes a story boring - conversely ones that fuck things up while trying to fix things are great to read. Romance OC's make me want to punch someone at times.

It's not just limited to OC's though. Even canon characters get a dose of this, especially when added to crossovers. Oh the amount of crossovers I've read where the crossed character is OBLITERATED into a new character that just happens to have the same name... Done right, it can be entertaining as long as the core of the character is still there. For example Auryn an HP/Naruto cross, HP is turned to Naruto's sister, but still keeps his core character traits and his "saving people thing." There is also the curious number of similarities between the two stories as well. Makes a good story, even if you could argue that the new 'Hari' is pretty much a new person.

What pisses me off the most is Harem stories, main character or OC. Unless the situation is played purely for laughs (like Ranma) they become nothing more than a vehicle for the author to jerk off to, which happens Far. To. Much. The personalities become little more then B grade porno characters it's pathetic. Oh, they often go hand in hand with "Dark" characters to, which are often insufferably portrayed as arrogant and overpowered. (It's just I'd like to get more decent Kyuubi based stories that isn't slash or herem like Experiments in Empathy or, Empty/Swapping the Cage, or the amusing family orientated Fox Leaves)

Hmm, god i could go off on a rant about fanfic stuff, even though I love reading it - 6 to 8 tabs on my phone's browser are often stories on FF.net.

TwilightsCall · 2013-11-13, 22:47

It really depends on what kind of story you are trying to tell.

For example, I've been writing a Touhou fanfic with an OC villain. From what I gathered from the feedback I've gotten, she's turned out okay, so hopefully my opinion is a little bit relevant!

Deciding to write in the OC came from two points:
1) I had a story in mind, and to write that story, a gap needed to be filled. Technically speaking, it could've been filled by an already existing character, but to do so would be a rather large deviation from the character's personality, which I feel would be just as bad, if not worse, than a bad OC. On top of that, trying to write an already existing character into the role I needed to fill would either run completely opposite their character, or would run completely opposite their canon strengths and weaknesses.

2) The whole Touhou universe really lends itself well to 'new people.' Whenever something bad happens, it's generally because someone new showed up to cause trouble. I feel like that really helps to set the stage and remove a lot of the reader inhibitions on OCs, greatly helping readers accept the new character.

Writing OCs into a story can be done without too much difficulty, if you know what you're doing. If you want to right a self insert, that's great, you can write a fantastic story about that. People probably won't like it, but if that's the story you've decided to write, then there isn't much more they can ask for.

If you're interested in having happy readers, you really have to clearly distinguish between one of the following two points - either the story is about the OC, OR the story is about how the characters deal with the OC.

When I say the story is 'about the OC,' I don't mean he or she is the superhero. In this type of story, you really need to make the story about their struggles as a character, why they are where they are, what they hope to accomplish, why it won't work out, etc etc. There needs to be depth, purpose, and forward movement. In this situation, the canon characters are really the side characters, just providing you a framework to tell your story in, providing support for the OC as the story follows their story.

The second method is basically was ZeroXSEED already said. The purpose of the OC in these stories is to show the canon characters, show how they develop, enjoy watching how they think and act with a new situation. The OC in this case is really just a means to an end, and you crucially have to remember to keep the spotlight on the canon characters. The OC can be important, but they can't be the most important.

If you write a story about how something terrible is happening to the canon characters, and your OC swoops in to save the day, you're not going to have an interesting story. It's more like watching someone play a video game on easy than reading a story - you know the OC is going to win every time, and after you've seen it once, you can probably guess how they are going to do it every time after that. That's not going to be fun for anyone except the author.

Writing your OC in as an addition to the main cast is similarly going to be incredibly difficult. The main cast was developed the way they were for a reason - adding an OC to that is like trying to add to an already finished painting. Unless you are a better author than the original author - and your readers accept that - its going to be very difficult to pull off a compelling story. Why? Because your OC and the main cast are going to be fighting for the spotlight - neither of them is going to get the attention they deserve and need to develop properly as characters.

Now, that's story building advice, not plot advice. There's nothing to stop you from writing an Angel Beats fanfic where there's a new student that shows up and joins the Anti-Angel task force. Absolutely nothing stands in the way of that being a good, likable story. But you really need to distinguish, for the sake of the reader, why the OC is there - is this a story about the OC, and how he copes in this new environment? Or is it a story about how Yurippe and Otonashi and the rest deal with the new guy? There's some space for flexibility, obviously, and a good author could probably write any story and make it compelling. But if you sit down and write like your OC is just 'one of the guys,' I think you're going to find that it's far too difficult to keep the story balanced and entertaining.

[/barelycoherentandhardlyorganizedopinions]

Ithekro · 2013-11-13, 23:02

Any new villian a new writer introduces is OC by default. It is sort of required for writers that are telling new stories within an existing universe. It happens all the time on television series were there are multiple writers.

Remember an OC does not have to be a protaganist character.

LeoXiao · 2013-11-13, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireminer

@Leo: More specific, please!

Specifically:

The OC "self-insert" thing usually doesn't work. The author him/herself is usually rather boring to read about. But what if they aren't boring to read about? Or if their position in the story actually makes sense or is acceptable given the framework of the universe the author is working with?

I once read an unfinished piece set in the storyline of a videogame. The MC was by admission of the author a self-insert, but the way he wrote his character and had him interact with the existing cast was humorous and rather well done. The story didn't take itself too seriously but it wasn't postmodern nonsense either. This, I would say, is an example of a self-insert done right.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2013-11-13, 23:14

A OC as a villain gets a bit of an easier time than a protagonist I'd say, more leeway with "power" and so on. Since eventually they're gona have to be beat down by the hero. Unless they go all Aizen "Just as planned" Souske - bit of a crapshoot then, haha.

Fireminer · 2013-11-13, 23:27

But the problem it: The number of OC protagonist is quite large. And their creators are stubborn - I had just had a heated debate with a dude that writes Kamen Rider/Infinite Stratos crossover. The character, setting,... everything is rushed. And yet he still get a lot of attention!

Now mention it, how many here could proudly say that the go slow? One of the most grivious flaws of OC creator and writer in large is rushing and un-balancing the elements.

2013-11-13, 08:01	Link #1
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	The self-imposing barrier of Original Character creating Fanfic writers So, Original Character is a type of character that was created by fanfic writers to serve a role in their writer. Guess that we all know the above. And I wouldn't go on and debating about Mary Sue/Gary Stu. The problem I want to state in here is: Some of these authors lack imagination. They never seen the big picture, instead choose to fufil their own wish in that tiny cage which we call canon. Or more exactly, I want to complain about is the "un-liveness" of Original Character. Not that I hate them - I've seen some really interesting one - but most of them are just the vision of the writer in that setting. It's true that you need to live with the character, but not live AS the character. A lot of OC writers today are just like that, they let themself clouded. Instead of making their characters "alive" with small details, all could they do is showing of how powerful are their characters. So what is your though of this? Are everything Ok, or Original Character creation writers should try to have a wider vision?

2013-11-13, 09:41	Link #3
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Bullshit OC with out of placed origin and hax powerset is the worst example that should be avoided. Unique doesn't meant gamebreaker, unique means solving things that canon character can't because their inherent limitation in canon. The task of OC, unless they're featured as well written main character(s) is to make the canon character SHINE. I personally thought the easiest way to write OC without veering into Sue territory is to write them as secondary characters, heroes or villains alike. __________________

2013-11-13, 09:52	Link #5
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Hence I said easiest, not meant the best way to write OC. Limited spotlight given to secondary OC can flesh them out, and yet not overtoook the roles that can be done by canon characters. For me, OC is there fo fill the gap, fixing plotholes, as well as stimulating a whole new dynamic with the closed circle of the canon cast. Not only this made the Canon cast more three dimensional, but it also open a new path toward character development. That aside, there's nothing inherently wrong with making OC as main characters. This is especially good if you want to write a gaiden/AU sidestories. New history, new perspective, new social dynamic that can bring a whole new flavor to the fandom instead of leaving them disgusted. __________________

2013-11-13, 10:55	Link #6
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	@ TS : My suggestion is that you enjoy writing about OCs while you can. __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2013-11-13, 22:15	Link #15
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	OC's can be pretty painful to read, since a few authors tend to make them just blatantly overpowered thus supplanting the story with textual self gratification. A character that exists solely to 'fix' problems makes a story boring - conversely ones that fuck things up while trying to fix things are great to read. Romance OC's make me want to punch someone at times. It's not just limited to OC's though. Even canon characters get a dose of this, especially when added to crossovers. Oh the amount of crossovers I've read where the crossed character is OBLITERATED into a new character that just happens to have the same name... Done right, it can be entertaining as long as the core of the character is still there. For example Auryn an HP/Naruto cross, HP is turned to Naruto's sister, but still keeps his core character traits and his "saving people thing." There is also the curious number of similarities between the two stories as well. Makes a good story, even if you could argue that the new 'Hari' is pretty much a new person. What pisses me off the most is Harem stories, main character or OC. Unless the situation is played purely for laughs (like Ranma) they become nothing more than a vehicle for the author to jerk off to, which happens Far. To. Much. The personalities become little more then B grade porno characters it's pathetic. Oh, they often go hand in hand with "Dark" characters to, which are often insufferably portrayed as arrogant and overpowered. (It's just I'd like to get more decent Kyuubi based stories that isn't slash or herem like Experiments in Empathy or, Empty/Swapping the Cage, or the amusing family orientated Fox Leaves) Hmm, god i could go off on a rant about fanfic stuff, even though I love reading it - 6 to 8 tabs on my phone's browser are often stories on FF.net. __________________

2013-11-13, 09:46	Link #4
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	Tch... Right, but it's truly aiming at main OC character writer like Strato here. Alive, that's one of Literature most sacred attribute. After all, doesn't it's the mirror of the Infinity of Life?

2013-11-13, 18:49	Link #10
Dr. Casey Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tennessee Age: 36	It's important that original characters fit stylistically with the series that's being written about, but that's really my only thought on the matter. Depending on the original character and how they're used, the character's presence can be a wonderful thing that enhances and enriches the story or a terrible thing that destroys it. The all-encompassing, black and white hatred that so many fanfic circles hold towards OCs has always seemed pretty irrational to me.

2013-11-13, 19:15	Link #11
EscapeReality Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Kazamatsuri City Age: 28	I'm a bit of a purist, so OCs make me cringe. If the author is trying to satisfy his/her own fantasies, I can understand that but still I don't like the idea (like what Dr. Casey said, I would like to see them stylistically fit, but that's often hard for someone who's not the original author). But it is a valid thing to create original personalities and to see how they cope with certain surroundings, as doing so can reveal interesting things about the canon itself if done effectively. Fanfiction is all about injecting your own take into an established story, isn't it?

2013-11-13, 19:36	Link #12
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	That is right! The character must be fit to the surrounding, but isn't it the writer job's to expand the surrounding? I mean, we all one to see strong character, canon or not in a fanfic, right? (Beside me. In my Infinite Stratos fic, I actually made Ichika couldn't pilot IS.) The point that I want to state here is: Too many writers are single-minded. What do they dream? A badass character that beating all obstacles, wooing all girls and knowing all things. And they did it straightly. What is worse, a large number of readers are actually encouraging these authors. I fear that this could lead to a lower demanding standard on both the author and the reader.

2013-11-13, 20:24	Link #13
LeoXiao 思想工作 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Vereinigte Staaten Age: 32	I don't mind it if it works.

2013-11-13, 22:10	Link #14
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	@Leo: More specific, please!

2013-11-13, 22:47	Link #16
TwilightsCall Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Age: 33	It really depends on what kind of story you are trying to tell. For example, I've been writing a Touhou fanfic with an OC villain. From what I gathered from the feedback I've gotten, she's turned out okay, so hopefully my opinion is a little bit relevant! Deciding to write in the OC came from two points: 1) I had a story in mind, and to write that story, a gap needed to be filled. Technically speaking, it could've been filled by an already existing character, but to do so would be a rather large deviation from the character's personality, which I feel would be just as bad, if not worse, than a bad OC. On top of that, trying to write an already existing character into the role I needed to fill would either run completely opposite their character, or would run completely opposite their canon strengths and weaknesses. 2) The whole Touhou universe really lends itself well to 'new people.' Whenever something bad happens, it's generally because someone new showed up to cause trouble. I feel like that really helps to set the stage and remove a lot of the reader inhibitions on OCs, greatly helping readers accept the new character. Writing OCs into a story can be done without too much difficulty, if you know what you're doing. If you want to right a self insert, that's great, you can write a fantastic story about that. People probably won't like it, but if that's the story you've decided to write, then there isn't much more they can ask for. If you're interested in having happy readers, you really have to clearly distinguish between one of the following two points - either the story is about the OC, OR the story is about how the characters deal with the OC. When I say the story is 'about the OC,' I don't mean he or she is the superhero. In this type of story, you really need to make the story about their struggles as a character, why they are where they are, what they hope to accomplish, why it won't work out, etc etc. There needs to be depth, purpose, and forward movement. In this situation, the canon characters are really the side characters, just providing you a framework to tell your story in, providing support for the OC as the story follows their story. The second method is basically was ZeroXSEED already said. The purpose of the OC in these stories is to show the canon characters, show how they develop, enjoy watching how they think and act with a new situation. The OC in this case is really just a means to an end, and you crucially have to remember to keep the spotlight on the canon characters. The OC can be important, but they can't be the most important. If you write a story about how something terrible is happening to the canon characters, and your OC swoops in to save the day, you're not going to have an interesting story. It's more like watching someone play a video game on easy than reading a story - you know the OC is going to win every time, and after you've seen it once, you can probably guess how they are going to do it every time after that. That's not going to be fun for anyone except the author. Writing your OC in as an addition to the main cast is similarly going to be incredibly difficult. The main cast was developed the way they were for a reason - adding an OC to that is like trying to add to an already finished painting. Unless you are a better author than the original author - and your readers accept that - its going to be very difficult to pull off a compelling story. Why? Because your OC and the main cast are going to be fighting for the spotlight - neither of them is going to get the attention they deserve and need to develop properly as characters. Now, that's story building advice, not plot advice. There's nothing to stop you from writing an Angel Beats fanfic where there's a new student that shows up and joins the Anti-Angel task force. Absolutely nothing stands in the way of that being a good, likable story. But you really need to distinguish, for the sake of the reader, why the OC is there - is this a story about the OC, and how he copes in this new environment? Or is it a story about how Yurippe and Otonashi and the rest deal with the new guy? There's some space for flexibility, obviously, and a good author could probably write any story and make it compelling. But if you sit down and write like your OC is just 'one of the guys,' I think you're going to find that it's far too difficult to keep the story balanced and entertaining. [/barelycoherentandhardlyorganizedopinions]

2013-11-13, 23:02	Link #17
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Any new villian a new writer introduces is OC by default. It is sort of required for writers that are telling new stories within an existing universe. It happens all the time on television series were there are multiple writers. Remember an OC does not have to be a protaganist character. __________________

2013-11-13, 23:14	Link #19
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	A OC as a villain gets a bit of an easier time than a protagonist I'd say, more leeway with "power" and so on. Since eventually they're gona have to be beat down by the hero. Unless they go all Aizen "Just as planned" Souske - bit of a crapshoot then, haha. __________________

2013-11-13, 23:27	Link #20
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	But the problem it: The number of OC protagonist is quite large. And their creators are stubborn - I had just had a heated debate with a dude that writes Kamen Rider/Infinite Stratos crossover. The character, setting,... everything is rushed. And yet he still get a lot of attention! Now mention it, how many here could proudly say that the go slow? One of the most grivious flaws of OC creator and writer in large is rushing and un-balancing the elements.