Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[Shinn_Kabuto]

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

the fans geez hello 2004 + gsd = 25yrs tribute to gundam!!!

besides where is the honor & yet it was to give fans maybe some thanks for those 25yrs in 04 by giving what the fans want. (i'm watching ya all if ya do it again on gundam 30)

Spoiler for *Joker psychopathic laugh*:

Maybe you don't understand the whole thing... <_<

But then again, it was rumored that during Destiny's run, Sunrise (or at least Chiaki Morosawa) listened too much to the viewers (about how Shinn Asuka sucked @ss and they wanted Kira and the Freedom back) that the series ended up in a mess.

And the 30th anniversary Gundam series is NOT the Gundam SEED movie but a UC series. !'m not surprised though how SEED-lings (like you) are reacting, no SEED season 3 or movie (which is a relief) and heck even if they are the majority of the audience, Japan doesn't really care about it. Japanese are still attached to the UC timeline, and it was fitting for a UC timeline series to serve as a 30th anniversary series.

[StratoSpear]

Originally Posted by Shinn_Kabuto

Spoiler for *Joker psychopathic laugh*:

Maybe you don't understand the whole thing... <_<

But then again, it was rumored that during Destiny's run, Sunrise (or at least Chiaki Morosawa) listened too much to the viewers (about how Shinn Asuka sucked @ss and they wanted Kira and the Freedom back) that the series ended up in a mess.

And the 30th anniversary Gundam series is NOT the Gundam SEED movie but a UC series. !'m not surprised though how SEED-lings (like you) are reacting, no SEED season 3 or movie (which is a relief) and heck even if they are the majority of the audience, Japan doesn't really care about it. Japanese are still attached to the UC timeline, and it was fitting for a UC timeline series to serve as a 30th anniversary series.

Agreed. UC has always been the foundation of Gundam.... and will always be.

So if Sunrise plans on making an Anniversary Gundam show, it's should be either one of the two categories:

- A show based on UC
- A brand new Gundam series based on a fresh new Era.

[Knight_SV]

fukuda has admitted that he have no idea where the direction to take Seed Destiny right? i think because Seed Destiny was never planned to be produced in the first place, but was made because of SEED-lings demand and bandai seeing this as the great opportunity to milking all the SEED-lings, and that's a logic reason why Seed Destiny was made IMO

[StratoSpear]

Originally Posted by Knight_SV

fukuda has admitted that he have no idea where the direction to take Seed Destiny right? i think because Seed Destiny was never planned to be produced in the first place, but was made because of SEED-lings demand and bandai seeing this as the great opportunity to milking all the SEED-lings, and that's a logic reason why Seed Destiny was made IMO

Really? Where did you dig this news from?

[yezhanquan]

While I'm not sure about Fukuda's word on the series, the blatant use of clip shows as filler is quite an insult. When the yonkoma manga is somewhat better than the actual series, I believe we have a problem here.

[RAVNEN]

I guess people who make GSD are either lazy or does'nt have time to pack more different action scene in to the show.That why there are tons of used clip in it.

[yezhanquan]

I felt that the "The Edge" manga series by Kuori Chimaki did a pretty good job of showing Athrun's viewpoint. The extra two volumes also highlighted important events, from the viewpoints of those involved. Some good stuff.

[hero147]

Originally Posted by RAVNEN

I guess people who make GSD are either lazy or does'nt have time to pack more different action scene in to the show.That why there are tons of used clip in it.

It wasn't the fact that the team was lazy, but the fact that they didn't have time to draw and make new battle scenes and such because Chiaki Morosawa kept handing in the scripts late.

[RAVNEN]

Originally Posted by hero147

It wasn't the fact that the team was lazy, but the fact that they didn't have time to draw and make new battle scenes and such because Chiaki Morosawa kept handing in the scripts late.

Oh...poor staff,I wish they have more oppurtinity. But maybe they will redeem themselves in the upcoming SEED movies.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Shinn_Kabuto

But then again, it was rumored that during Destiny's run, Sunrise (or at least Chiaki Morosawa) listened too much to the viewers (about how Shinn Asuka sucked @ss and they wanted Kira and the Freedom back) that the series ended up in a mess.

What is the worth of an unsupported rumor? And would it really make any difference why the creators decided to do certain things?

Originally Posted by Knight_SV

fukuda has admitted that he have no idea where the direction to take Seed Destiny right? i think because Seed Destiny was never planned to be produced in the first place, but was made because of SEED-lings demand and bandai seeing this as the great opportunity to milking all the SEED-lings, and that's a logic reason why Seed Destiny was made IMO

Destiny itself shows that they had a fairly clear idea of what they were trying to achieve by the end - the weakness of the show being that they weren't as good at getting to that end as well as they wanted to.

I suppose that if you wanted to boil it down further, the creative staff really didn't have anything planned for the show before getting the green light, but that's almost certainly true of all Gundam shows. And if you really want to boil it down, all Gundam shows are made with the idea of milking more money from fans, so I don't see what the big deal is here.

Originally Posted by coba

Dude, the only consequence of breaking of that kind of treaty is either you have a cold war situation or you get a war outbreak right away (something which is kinda ironic considering how Lacus' preaching abour peace).

What is the reasoning for this? Plenty of countries break arms limitation treaty with little consequence.

Originally Posted by coba

What I am talking about is not whether you will get punished or not. Heck, you can steal/shoplift in the supermarket and you will not get punished as long as nobody knows. But it still doesn't make you escape the fact that you already sin

My point here wasn't so much about punishment - it was that the lack of punishment is indicative of how light the sin is considered to be.

Originally Posted by coba

It is clearly mentioned that the the Nairobi Peace Conference which basically "the peace negotiations that officially conclude the first war between Earth and the PLANTs" (Gundam official). . If it is only between Earth Federation and Plant, it will say Eart Federation - not earth.

"Earth" has been used as shorthand for the EA for both shows. For example, instead of referring to OMNI troops by name, they're simply called "Earth forces". And even Orb soldiers do this.

Originally Posted by coba

Dude, the Junius treaty clearly states that you are not suppose to use NJC in the MS .
It can't be clearer than that, no matter how you try to avoid this point. This steps is basically for the nuclear weapon disarmament. It is quite similar with the real world version where onbe of the mainsteps is to "create someday the conditions for a halt to the production of nuclear weapons, and treaty on general and complete disarmament that liquidates, in particular, nuclear weapons and their delivery vehicles from national arsenals" (wikipedia).

There's nothing at all clear in the wording:

"The Junius Treaty prohibits the use of N-Jammer Cancelers in mobile suits and military weapons, and all use of Mirage Colloid is banned outright. As a result, both sides are prohibited from developing or deploying mobile suits equipped with nuclear engines or Mirage Colloid stealth systems."

The bolded section could either refer to just the use in new weapons, or mandates the destruction of any existing ones as well. If it's the latter, there would normally be a separate stipulation to that effect.

Originally Posted by coba

p.s: This is the supporting argument on how the "good side" in GSD is not that different from other. Kira and co. preach about peace and now you have a "peace" treaty after the war and congratulation....they are the one who broke it right away. If they are really serious about preserving peace, they really ought to think about some other method instead of rebuilding the Freedom again.

You can blame Lacus and Cagalli for this one, but not Kira - he didn't really know about Freedom. A realist would have known that a lasting peace was impossible and prepare accordingly. It's an eminently sensible thing to do, and frankly, the arms limitation portion of the Junius Treaty was a silly concept from the get go. Out-of-universe, the only reason for having it was to have an excuse for Impulse's gimmick with the rechargeable battery.

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by Shinn_Kabuto

Spoiler for *Joker psychopathic laugh*:

Maybe you don't understand the whole thing... <_<

But then again, it was rumored that during Destiny's run, Sunrise (or at least Chiaki Morosawa) listened too much to the viewers (about how Shinn Asuka sucked @ss and they wanted Kira and the Freedom back) that the series ended up in a mess.

And the 30th anniversary Gundam series is NOT the Gundam SEED movie but a UC series. !'m not surprised though how SEED-lings (like you) are reacting, no SEED season 3 or movie (which is a relief) and heck even if they are the majority of the audience, Japan doesn't really care about it. Japanese are still attached to the UC timeline, and it was fitting for a UC timeline series to serve as a 30th anniversary series.

well at least i'm neutral anime fan.

but just wait for morosawa full recover then gsm & who knows gs 3?!

(by the way if any ya pull the same "thing" again for gundam 30 well geez always aniversity year got lots of "heat".)

[Garrod Ran]

why do we even 'need' a Seed series three , with all the side stories , OVA's manga and other assorted side stories , its like beating a dead horse.
it might not have had the reaction seed did , but im glad for 00 because its at least something refreshingly different.
one can only see that bloody same faced animation on every character so many times before going insane

[elindir]

Originally Posted by Garrod Ran

why do we even 'need' a Seed series three , with all the side stories , OVA's manga and other assorted side stories , its like beating a dead horse.
it might not have had the reaction seed did , but im glad for 00 because its at least something refreshingly different.
one can only see that bloody same faced animation on every character so many times before going insane

I agree, the SEED universe has so many spin-offs that a new series or a new movie is clearly not needed, and this fact is even more obvious if you consider the dubious quality of Destiny.

[coba]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

What is the reasoning for this? Plenty of countries break arms limitation treaty with little consequence.

Sure,... and that's why we never have everlasting peace in the world, do we ?

My point here wasn't so much about punishment - it was that the lack of punishment is indicative of how light the sin is considered to be

Like I told you before, this is about a moral stand. "No matter how small the sin is, it is still sin". Also, for someone who keeps preaching peace and condemn the use of nuke, they also do a taboo by using Freedom. I will be more happy if they don't try to lecture anyone else about what is right and wrong.

There's nothing at all clear in the wording:

"The Junius Treaty prohibits the use of N-Jammer Cancelers in mobile suits and military weapons, and all use of Mirage Colloid is banned outright. As a result, both sides are prohibited from developing or deploying mobile suits equipped with nuclear engines or Mirage Colloid stealth systems."

The bolded section could either refer to just the use in new weapons, or mandates the destruction of any existing ones as well. If it's the latter, there would normally be a separate stipulation to that effect.

No it is clear if this only involves the new equipments, they will clearly said: "The Junius Treaty prohibits the use of N-Jammer Cancelers in new mobile suits and military weapons, and all use of Mirage Colloid is banned outright".

You made assumptuion that this rule is only apply for the new military. Just think about it for a second, the idea of removing the use of NJC in military equipment is clearly to completely wipe out the use of nuke in the long run. That's always the case for the treaty to ban the nuke, there is no point if you don't try to achieve this (you will end up using the nuke again in the future everytime you preserve the existing nuke). That is also clearly the reson why the term "both sides are prohibited from developing or deploying mobile suits equipped with nuclear engines or Mirage Colloid stealth systems". The purpose of this term is clearly try to make sure that the existing NJC can no longer be used for military purpose.

You can blame Lacus and Cagalli for this one, but not Kira - he didn't really know about Freedom. A realist would have known that a lasting peace was impossible and prepare accordingly. It's an eminently sensible thing to do, and frankly, the arms limitation portion of the Junius Treaty was a silly concept from the get go. Out-of-universe, the only reason for having it was to have an excuse for Impulse's gimmick with the rechargeable battery

Well I used the term "Kira & co" to make it faster in writing the response. But still it makes look them (especially Lacus) looks hypocrite. For someone who always preach about peace, she does not even try to achieve this. Here you have a treaty that is meant to promote peace by banning the use of nuclear in the military equipments and she is the one who broke it first by rebuilding Freedom. Heck, if you insists on creating poeace, couldn't you try to contribute something in the first place like scrapping Freedom (especially considering she already has AA + custom Murasame).

[OMG_Zerg_Rush]

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

well at least i'm neutral anime fan.

but just wait for morosawa full recover then gsm & who knows gs 3?!

(by the way if any ya pull the same "thing" again for gundam 30 well geez always aniversity year got lots of "heat".)

neutral? thats the best joke ever.
And for the last time the chances of a third season of seed are near zero

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by OMG_Zerg_Rush

neutral? thats the best joke ever.
And for the last time the chances of a third season of seed are near zero

well because morosawa still recovcering from her cancer during those GS times geez are reason why ya all being harsh to gsd.

[Garrod Ran]

why ya all being harsh to gsd.

because it sucked ?

not everyone has the same opinion of gsd that you do Klac

[Throne Zwei]

Destiny failed period. Gundam X was better than this.

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by Throne Zwei

Destiny failed period. Gundam X was better than this.

uh little history of anime lesson The Real Robot genre (including the Gundam and Macross franchises), which had declined during the 1990s, was revived in 2002 with the success of shows such as Mobile Suit Gundam SEED (2002), Eureka Seven (2005), Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion (2006), Mobile Suit Gundam 00 (2007), Macross Frontier (2008) and Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 (2008).

so thank GS series for being the 1st to revive the real robot genre.

[yezhanquan]

Throne Zwei mentioned Destiny, NOT Seed. As I posted here a long time ago, Seed was ok, not great, but certainly not mediocre either.