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Old 2014-03-30, 17:36   Link #1441
Ravagerblade
The Fearless
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: "United" States
If that were true than it would go full circle towards everybody no? unless we go with reality don't work like that.

Maybe I just like redemption stories from tragedy. If by the world is Black and White than gray must also exist. I believe for the most part everybody can be forgiven, though crossing the line is a whole nother dimension. I don't think Yomi had truly crossed that line.
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Last edited by Ravagerblade; 2014-03-30 at 17:42. Reason: thought of more things to say.
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Old 2014-03-31, 13:46   Link #1442
careph
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravagerblade View Post
Maybe I just like redemption stories from tragedy. If by the world is Black and White than gray must also exist. I believe for the most part everybody can be forgiven, though crossing the line is a whole nother dimension. I don't think Yomi had truly crossed that line.
I am curious what to you means "crossing the line". The way I see it, there aren't many lines that Yomi hasn't crossed.

If I were to draw up a list of the most terrible atrocities a human being can be responsible for, then Yomi could check a lot of items on that list.

Murder your own family, including your cousin and uncle. Check.
Betray and brutally slaughter your colleagues, acquaintances and allies. Check.
By weakening the protectors of humanity, make a lot of innocent humans suffer from evil supernatural influences. Check.
Execute your little sister's father. Check.
Put the person you claim to love the most through insufferable torment. Check.
Try to destroy the world. Check.

If the manga is taken into account:

Butcher dozens of civilians. Check.
Try to destroy the world a second time. Check.


To put it bluntly, the only thing Yomi isn't responsible for is the Holocaust.

Sure, she back-pedaled at some point. She tried to at least restrict the potential for damage by isolating herself in the woods.

But that she crossed the line to me is indisputable. And when the people you wronged are dead, it becomes very difficult for them to forgive you. As the lyrics of a favourite song of mine go:

"But I'm more than just a little curious
How you're plannin' to go about makin' your amends
To the dead"
(A Perfect Circle - The Noose)
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Old 2014-03-31, 14:28   Link #1443
Ravagerblade
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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What she's done is highly wrong yes, done a lot of villainous things. Lines were crossed I'll agree to that, but to me, she didn't do the evil things just to do them, can she really be all that responsible, maybe.

Anyways I may not be 100% right in what I think, But I do want to discuss it for the most part.
I wanted to ask you about the red stone, Does it Heighten ones negative emotions passed what they'd normally be right? Her emotions(therefore the way she acts, in a way) are amplified no?

Was she Justified?
Yes and no I believe. something's that happened I... I just think I can't really hold against her. What about you?
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Last edited by Ravagerblade; 2014-03-31 at 14:48. Reason: Added more text.
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Old 2014-03-31, 18:11   Link #1444
Ravagerblade
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Ahhh, just watched Ga-rei; Zero again, it's such a sad story. it just makes me want to protect/care for Yomi somehow. Somehow the sadness of the others pale in comparison to yomi.
I LOVE her!!! lol From what I've read in here I can really understand how she's a popular character.

There's so many things I want to see her more in, even with the anime and manga wasn't enough to sedate my "thirst" for the character. need more story about her.

Off/Topic I can't help but think Linkin Park's Leave Out All The Rest - Song fits Yomi pretty well for the most part if not some parts of the lyrics, in a way.
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“No, I don’t get it at all. I may claim to ‘understand’ Othinus, but I only know her as a girl. I don’t understand anything when it comes to her being a Magic God.” - Touma NT13

Last edited by Ravagerblade; 2014-03-31 at 19:52.
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Old 2014-04-01, 14:38   Link #1445
careph
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravagerblade View Post
What she's done is highly wrong yes, done a lot of villainous things. Lines were crossed I'll agree to that, but to me, she didn't do the evil things just to do them, can she really be all that responsible, maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravagerblade View Post
Was she Justified?
Yes and no I believe. something's that happened I... I just think I can't really hold against her. What about you?
In my opinion, Yomi acted on strong motivations during her darker moments. She was driven by her lust for revenge (Mei, Mei's father, to some extent Noriyuki), by hatred (see the lyrics of the ending theme "I hate this world") and by envy (toward Kagura, see their fight in the tunnel; toward Kazuki for "stealing" Noriyuki). To me, they were her lust for revenge, her hatred and her envy; not the death stone's.

The above is a way of explaining her actions through emotions. But there is also room for what E. A. Poe called the "imp of the perverse": "I am not more certain that I breathe, than that the assurance of the wrong or error of any action is often the one unconquerable force which impels us, and alone impels us to its prosecution. Nor will this overwhelming tendency to do wrong for the wrong's sake admit of analysis, or resolution into ulterior elements. It is a radical, a primitive impulse - elementary."
Like Poe, you may reject all explanations for her behaviour and argue that the evil influence of the death stone was responsible for all she did; that Yomi was at no time in command of her own actions or thoughts; that she was merely the puppet of an extraordinarily strong evil influence that overrode her entire being and used her body as it pleased.
I am skeptical. I find too many details in the anime that point in other directions. And I think that Yomi's behaviour is explainable - at least to a degree. In the woods, when Yomi was alone with Kagura, it became clear that her words were meant as a provocation: She tried to make Kagura kill her. Looking back, then, raises the question: How much of her behaviour when possessed by the death stone was an act to get others to kill her, rather than its influence? To what extent and when was she in command of her body? And if so, then which part of her? Her remorse for what she did and her intention to kill herself, or her destructive impulses?
You could, for instance, argue that torturing Kazuki in the underground tunnel was simply meant to hurt Noriyuki - Kazuki was Noriyuki's best friend, and killing him was revenge for abandoning Yomi, the crippled murderer, in the hospital. Or you could argue that she only tortured Kazuki so that Noriyuki would be forced to kill her and thus save his friend. Or you could argue that it was all just the death stone's doing. Period.

One scene, three possible interpretations. They do not necessarily exclude each other - some variation of each of the interpretations could be true. But a definite answer is difficult if not impossible to find.

Nevertheless, even if the death stone was responsible for everything and there was nothing Yomi could have done, she is still responsible: because it was her who chose to fuse with the death stone. It is true that she was in a difficult situation, that she had recently lost her beloved father figure, fought her cousin to the death, was reduced to a cripple and hardly able to move, was abandoned by her fiancé and badmouthed by her former colleagues, and saw her beloved little sister's idealized conception of Yomi broken to pieces - but even considering all of that, she still could have rejected the death stone when Mitogawa offered it to her. She still could have "said" no.

A drunk driver may not be in control of his body when he hits the family van on the highway. But he is still responsible for killing the family in the car accident. He chose to get drunk, and then to get into the car. That he used alcohol in an attempt to drown his problems, that he got into the car in order to get a clear head - none of that justifies or excuses his actions.

Yomi did not "say" no, she accepted the death stone. She was full aware of its destructive potential - since she had seen what it did to Mei - and perhaps even welcomed its power when she took it. Whether or not she was in control of her body when she slaughtered all these people is not so important. She had already failed before, not only as a designated protector of humanity, but also and fundamentally as a conscientious human being. She had put her negative emotions above the well-being of her loved ones and the community she swore to protect even before the death stone began to influence her.
That to me is utterly irresponsible and unjustifiable.

I can understand that you like her. I like her too. I will not enumerate her strong points here, you know them. I can also understand that you want the people (real or illusionary) you like to be happy, and keep harm from them. But as much as I wish her happiness, I doubt she deserves it. As much as feel impelled to defend her, I cannot let go of all the atrocities she committed, I cannot excuse the injustice she brought into the world of Ga-Rei Zero.
For I would misunderstand her character. I would make the same mistake that Kagura made when she created a flawless Yomi in her mind and idolized it; a Yomi that is quite incompatible with feelings like revenge and hatred, with actions like murder. Yomi isn't just the proud and fierce warrior, or the caring, loving and protective older sister. She is also the cold-hearted mass murderer, the cruel, powerful, relentless enemy of humanity. She does not only feel love, pride, duty. She also feels envy and hatred, like any human being would.
I feel that if I acknowledged only her good sides, her picture in my mind would devolve into empty idolatry. If I tried to explain all her bad sides away or sought to justify them, I would attempt to avoid a moral conflict that Yomi herself experienced strongly. I would miss some of what makes her who she is.

In the end, I do not feel I even need to justify or excuse her actions. I just like her. And I realize that I have no influence on her well-being. All I can really do is wish her well, even if her happiness is just the peace of the grave, and keep her memory alive - in my mind as well as those of others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravagerblade View Post
Anyways I may not be 100% right in what I think, But I do want to discuss it for the most part.
I wanted to ask you about the red stone, Does it Heighten ones negative emotions passed what they'd normally be right? Her emotions(therefore the way she acts, in a way) are amplified no?
I cannot give you a definite answer to that, since the anime leaves much room for interpretation.There was a lengthy discussion about that back in 2009. It starts with post #1095 on page 55. I suggest you read up on that discussion. Perhaps some of the ideas presented there will help you to form your own opinion on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Ravagerblade View Post
Ahhh, just watched Ga-rei; Zero again, it's such a sad story. it just makes me want to protect/care for Yomi somehow. Somehow the sadness of the others pale in comparison to yomi.
It took me a long time to properly appreciate Kagura's suffering, and even understand or even accept Noriyuki to some extent. I do not think that Yomi's sadness exceeds the pain that either of them go through in the course of the anime (and the manga). But then again I do not want to start a competition of "who suffered the most". They all faced traumatic experiences and tragedy, and they all reacted to them in their characteristic ways. Some reactions seem more noble than others, but they are all ultimately human.
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Old 2014-04-01, 16:45   Link #1446
Ravagerblade
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I see your points, I'll agree, she did act on her feelings. I don't think it was the death stones emotions; I'd rather think of it as an enabler, she has/had those feelings (I mean who hasn't feel like doing something but refrained. no?)
I never really intended to do the same as Kagura did and put Yomi on a pedestal, my own emotions must have got the best of myself, She did do terrible things.

Favoritism does cloud judgement;
Quote:
It took me a long time to properly appreciate Kagura's suffering, and even understand or even accept Noriyuki to some extent. I do not think that Yomi's sadness exceeds the pain that either of them go through in the course of the anime (and the manga). But then again I do not want to start a competition of "who suffered the most". They all faced traumatic experiences and tragedy, and they all reacted to them in their characteristic ways. Some reactions seem more noble than others, but they are all ultimately human.
I'll also agree I've also looked at it from their point of view. I don't dislike noriyuki (some of the feeling is still there) as much as I did before, while he did, in a way, leave Yomi when she needed him, In his own way I guess he was trying to help her but maybe not the most helpful*?*?


we are all human we all make mistakes and we all have to live with them. But do you really think she can't be forgiven even if its just a little? some of it at least.
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“No, I don’t get it at all. I may claim to ‘understand’ Othinus, but I only know her as a girl. I don’t understand anything when it comes to her being a Magic God.” - Touma NT13
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Old 2014-04-01, 23:37   Link #1447
FlareKnight
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Interesting discussion going on .

On the Yomi topic all I can really say is that she is certainly a tragic character. Yeah, she definitely had her faults and there's no avoiding the mass of corpses that popped up after she was joined to that stone either. But certainly the road getting there was something I could feel sorry for. I mean damn all she went through and then getting utterly destroyed by that small jerk. The physical and mental anguish up to the point she went dark was something I couldn't wrap my head around. And certainly not a situation where I could say I'd have turned out much better if circumstances were similar. People can just do horrible things when the worst of circumstances line up.

Just plain sucks for the guys who got killed in the aftermath. Of course if we're talking about sympathies I feel for the guys in the first episode who had the idea they were main characters .
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Old 2014-04-01, 23:44   Link #1448
Ravagerblade
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Indeed. Yes I wouldn't mind seeing Section 4 more. Bike chic and Tooru something or other.
Her smirk when she accepted the Stone, it was like *hell yeah I'm going to get my just desserts*(in a way).
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“No, I don’t get it at all. I may claim to ‘understand’ Othinus, but I only know her as a girl. I don’t understand anything when it comes to her being a Magic God.” - Touma NT13
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Old 2014-04-02, 13:05   Link #1449
careph
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight
And certainly not a situation where I could say I'd have turned out much better if circumstances were similar.
Tarnished Treasures is a fanfic that plays with this idea: what if not Yomi, but somebody else, got under the influence of the death stone? A chilling piece of fiction and highly recommended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravagerblade View Post
we are all human we all make mistakes and we all have to live with them. But do you really think she can't be forgiven even if its just a little? some of it at least.
There is nothing for me to forgive because Yomi never wronged me. I am not willing, however, to excuse or justify her evil actions.

If Kagura chooses to forgive Yomi for killing her father and their comrades, then that is fine by me. If Noriyuki lays the scarring memory of his best friend's death to rest and embraces his love for his fiancée, then who am I to object?
The living - whose relatives and friends were wronged by Yomi - may forgive her, but the people she killed cannot. In that respect, there is no forgiveness or redemption for Yomi.
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Old 2017-10-24, 12:38   Link #1450
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
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'Thor: Ragnarok' Writer Developing Manga 'Ga-Rei' Into Live-Action Series
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Old 2017-10-24, 20:59   Link #1451
blakstealth
Cinderella Gang or Die
 
 
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hahahhahaha oh my god. This is incredible.

...nah, but really, though. That was an interesting read. Craig Kyle seems to have a pretty level head when it comes to adaptations. I liked Ga Rei Zero, but never read the manga for the original series. I hope he does it well.

also....
Quote:
"What it has more than anything is wonderful, wonderful characters," Kyle said. "That's the one component, above all else, that will guarantee a success if handled properly by those you entrust with those characters and the IP. Everyone who wants the next Game of Thrones, I will make the bold statement that Ga-Rei has that potential."
snaaaap
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Old 2017-10-25, 11:53   Link #1452
Sageblink
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The manga was less... "tragic" in a way. But if well played, this is gonna break my heart...
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