|
View Poll Results: Who’s Under the Mask? | |||
Madara | 104 | 32.91% | |
Madara’s Son | 14 | 4.43% | |
Madara’s Clone | 30 | 9.49% | |
Madara’s Ghost/Soul/Poltergeist given shape... | 33 | 10.44% | |
Obito | 59 | 18.67% | |
Obito’s Body, but not really Obito... | 55 | 17.41% | |
Someone else’s body (not Obito’s)... | 21 | 6.65% | |
Zetsu’s Love Child... | 23 | 7.28% | |
Tobirama/Sarutobi/or anyone with a 'tobi' in their name... | 16 | 5.06% | |
Bruce Wayne or other… | 69 | 21.84% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2012-09-11, 15:38 | Link #1281 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
|
Quote:
It might be that Obito had in his mind a Madara clone (similarily to Naruto having in his his father, mother, kyuubi and who knows what else ) that he could let take over his mind and fight. That would explain Tobi's performance and personality when fighting Minato. |
|
2012-09-11, 17:10 | Link #1282 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
Quote:
It wasn't ignorance, it was... Well brain damage explains that too. |
|
2012-09-11, 17:23 | Link #1283 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
|
Tobi is Black Zetsu merged with Obito.
Obito has white Zetsu cells now from the first Hokage(That Heal at random instances of time #601!!),then I am assuming Black Zetsu is what Madara left Obito with to train and be his better half. Doesn't Zetsu have the "record" Ability? Would also explain how Madara trained Obito through Zetsu.. |
2012-09-11, 19:54 | Link #1284 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-09-11, 22:43 | Link #1288 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
^There is no shot of Obito watching the fight (after cowering in fear), so there is how way of saying that he saw the technique. Additionally Rin did see the fight, and her thought bubble directly named Minato's speed as Shuushin. So, his students did not know about Hiraishin (at the time).
|
2012-09-11, 23:19 | Link #1289 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-09-12, 00:32 | Link #1291 |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
Hence why I concluded it was brain damage which you countered with lack of experience to which I replied with negative learning curve to which you answered with brain damage.
The cycle is complete! |
2012-09-12, 03:20 | Link #1292 | |
Monarch Programmer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Age: 42
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-09-12, 10:25 | Link #1293 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Joking aside, I do believe as I wrote that Obito simply did not know the full extent of the powers of Hiraishin (which, to be fair, the audience didn't either). Tobi's actions can easily be explained as surprise mixed with exasperation.
|
2012-09-12, 11:49 | Link #1294 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
If we're not joking anymore then no I don't think I can agree with that. Hiraishin isn't a complicated jutsu to grasp, it's a reverse summoning to a designated seal, the seal part is something we know for a fact Obito was aware of.
So I'm supposed to believe Obito wasn't aware that it was instant, ok it's stupid but my suspension of disbelief can take the hit. Then I'm supposed to believe that Obito was still surprised after witnessing it once to the extent that he purposely didn't capture Minato as fast as he could into his own dimension. No surprise can explain that and my suspension of disbelief just crashed in flames. Then I'm supposed to believe that Obito knowing full well and seeing first hand what Minato can do tried to bind him in chains for no discernable reason. Now this isn't about suspension of disbelief anymore it's just mindblowingly stupid, there is simply no way to rationalize that. And finally after all this I'm supposed to believe that Obito still couldn't grasp the concept and was so genuinely retarded he couldn't guess at the most telegraphed move Minato could do. Nop, Yondaime teleporting to his kunai over and over was too subtle a hint apparently. There is no credible rationalization for Tobi's actions. The author simply went for the fangasm route which in general is a bad idea, didn't take the pain to write the scene credibly when it took place which is worse and worst of all did it after his characters explained that the opposite had taken place (re-read Minato and Naruto's comments about this fight in insight, it's priceless). This is the kind of things you should expect from fanfictions, not from a professional writer even in a medium like Shounen manga. Quote:
Last edited by Hunter; 2012-09-12 at 14:41. Reason: typo |
|
2012-09-12, 12:29 | Link #1295 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
Did we? Did we know Minato could transport foreign attacks through his seals? Did we know that Minato could transport other people or even Bijuu? Did we know that Minato could transport himself while the seal is in motion (considering in all other instances the seal was at rest)? No we did not. (I'm also unclear if we knew he could use the technique beyond his kunai (by affixing the seal on a person or another object), but that is a very simple logical step). There was plenty about Hiraishin that was unknown before the flashback (and some that was retconned in). |
|
2012-09-12, 14:47 | Link #1296 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
|
Unfortunately Tobi being the loser Obito seems to be a rational explanation
It reminds me of Naruto who tries the same approach multiple times even if it always failed BTW Kishimoto writes for the average reader, and most of us didn't even notice how stupid Tobi's behavior was until you explained it point by point |
2012-09-12, 15:12 | Link #1297 | ||
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
Quote:
Quote:
Simply put Minato did nothing out of the ordinary or even a little clever with Hiraishin when fighting Obito, the poor kid just suffered from acute moronism for a time. The worst thing is that it wouldn't be very difficult to imagine clever Hiraishin tricks to show off Minato and make the fight credible instead of dumbing down Obito to the point of becoming a drooling fool. Last edited by Hunter; 2012-09-12 at 15:29. |
||
2012-09-12, 15:57 | Link #1298 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
|
Wait, do we know for sure that the Tobi who fought Minato was Obito? I mean, there could be more than one person to wear that mask. It's possible that (say) that was Madara, who later died, after which Obito put on his mask and pretended to be him.
(It's also possible that the writer didn't really think through where he was going with things. If you go reread the first few chapters, it's obvious that he originally intended for Naruto to physically be the nine-tailed fox, say, like in the pilot.) |
2012-09-12, 16:06 | Link #1299 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
|
All of that makes me think that TOBI WAS NEVER OBITO!!! I think kishi forgot that he made tobi to be a new character or at least one we knew but never saw. Then kishi got hit in the head with a boulder an then tobi=obito came out.
from the flash back that we just saw madara was an old man so it couldnt have been him but we never know since we could all be under the moon eye plan |
2012-09-12, 22:08 | Link #1300 |
Fallen Angel
|
I see a lot of people bitter that they were wrong about Tobi not being Obito.
This reminds me of Matrix Revolution where people posted paragraphs upon paragraphs of alternate dimension theories and speculation and getting praise about how they "nailed it" and the most simplest theories were dismissed, and sure enough, the simplest theories were true. Don't dismiss Obito being Tobi as 'plot hole riddled'. This manga has plenty of plot holes. Danzo existing was ENTIRELY a plot hole. Most writers only know the ending of their stories and everything else just fits together but Kishimoto has signaled to us for a LONG time that Tobi=Obito. The alternate dimension Kamui, which seems to be family line dependent, was a major hint. And to me, when Tobi fought Minato, that looked like a late teenager fighting Minato. He didn't look as TALL as Minato. Angles or not. I seriously doubt Kishimoto CHANGED the entire plot of Tobi just for the sake of pleasing fan boys. That's just stupid. It's stupider than Tobi being Obito at all. Believing that is just trying to hang onto the idea that he was more complex for the sake of self validation. As for his ignorance against Minato - I don't think a lot of people knew how Minato fought until they actually fought him. A lot of people thought he was just 'really fast' to the point that he was called the Yellow Flash. That being said, here's my thoughts: We don't know how time passes between death and the after life. It's very possible Madara trained Obito in a fundamental way while he was 'dead'. Probably taught him how to use his Mangekyou, repaired his body with Zetsu and 'brain washed' him to the ways of Uchiha. The nail in the coffin was probably when Rin died. Now since Kishimoto hasn't revealed how Rin died yet, we can assume it was after the Shinobi War ended and before Naruto was born. Whatever reservations Obito had about betraying his village probably died along with Rin, which prompted Obito to begin working for/alongside Madara. Madara probably, at this point, had already given the Rinnegan to Nagato. As for why he said the Rinnegan was 'his', it's probably part of Madara's niche to teach his proteges to act as though they are one. That is, after all, his end game right? To make the world one and hold the world hostage in Genjutsu. It makes perfect sense that with the training of Madara, Obito would jump that many strength levels to being superior to kages. As for where this is going at this point: Madara's Kage Bunshin alone, managed to wipe out all five of the kages and the entire Shinobi Alliance without breaking a sweat. It's safe to say that Madara and Tobi, with their unannounced trump card, are too much of a match for Naruto, Gai and Kakashi, sans Kurama/Hachibi or not. I'm thinking: Sasuke and Naruto have to team up for this. This will not end their rivalry, but will end this arch. |
Tags |
tobi |
|
|