(L+CR) Darling in the Franxx

[orion]

Originally Posted by leelee85

Well Unless the story can cough up proof that Naomi (703) is alive or not, Who the hell will Hiro partener with?

He can cool off in the hospital and find out what happened to Naomi and the other children that disappeared.

02 can reflect on her partner-abusing ways and change her behavior.

[kampfer91]

Originally Posted by leelee85

Well Unless the story can cough up proof that Naomi (703) is alive or not, Who the hell will Hiro partener with?

He can't , because by having 02 blood inside him turn him into one pony trick , he can't ride with anyone else .

Btw , 02 blood was blue during her childhood , but we saw her blood is red in a couple of episode before , also her skin no long in red , how did she do that , did she bargain with the Witch aka Dr Franxx or APE to turn her into human ( partly ) in exchange for her service of eradicating Klaxxosaur ?

[firemagnet]

Originally Posted by kampfer91

He can't , because by having 02 blood inside him turn him into one pony trick , he can't ride with anyone else .

Btw , 02 blood was blue during her childhood , but we saw her blood is red in a couple of episode before , also her skin no long in red , how did she do that , did she bargain with the Witch aka Dr Franxx or APE to turn her into human ( partly ) in exchange for her service of eradicating Klaxxosaur ?

It's suggested that the act of riding with her various partners made her human as she absorbed their life force, but we don't know for sure.

Hiro is down and out for the next episode, and Zero-Two is now stuck in a rut; she's found her darling, but still viciously hates herself and her slow transformation because she feels that she can't be with him. There may also be another factor of her realizing that she just tried to kill her darling. However it's worth noting that even with their memories recovered, Zero-Two and Hiro are fundamentally different than when they first met as children.

And then Ichigo steps into the mess to resolve her *own* feelings about Hiro, which Zero-Two clearly doesn't take kindly to. Not only is she physically barring Zero-Two from seeing Hiro, but she's also preventing Zero-Two from piloting, as--judging by her continuous nail-biting--Zero-Two still fervently believes that she needs to kill more klaxosaurs to become human.

[KPSJ]

I am still holding out hope for the mech vs mech fights

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

02 had absolutely no control over her life untill now. I don't know what to say about the fact that you don't like her, even when it's clear that it's not her fault. Except that you should have a little empathy and pay attention to the context.

Please don't just randomly accuse people of stuff, such as having no empathy. She has control over what she says, she has control over how she treats people, and she most certainly has taken risks that she did not need to take, and not even at risk to her own life, but somebody else's. Unlike some people here, I have not forgotten the testimony of the other squad some episodes back.

Even if everything she did was 100% against her own will (and not all of it was), she expresses no angst over it. She has never been shown to care for the wellbeing anyone other than herself.

"No empathy." my ass. I wonder if people would be so defensive of her if she was a dude, and her past self wasn't a cute loli.

Just for comparison, another work had a female character who, because of circumstances which are by no means under her full control, has arguably done much worse than what 02 has, but she actually expresses angst over it and ends up taking responsibility for her actions.



And again, this isn't even me harping on her as a character. She's most certainly not badly written. I just cannot see her like a good person, because she has not shown any redeeming qualities thus far. And no sob story can change that.

Disagree with me? Want to change my mind? Name three redeeming qualities she has.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Dengar

And again, this isn't even me harping on her as a character. She's most certainly not badly written. I just cannot see her like a good person, because she has not shown any redeeming qualities thus far. And no sob story can change that.

I don't need my heroes to be nice people, I just need them to do what must be done.

[Dengar]

Well yeah but that doesn't mean they're deserving of any of my respect. I mean the rest of the team also do what needs to be done but most of them actually show some concern for the wellbeing of those around them.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Well yeah but that doesn't mean they're deserving of any of my respect. I mean the rest of the team also do what needs to be done but most of them actually show some concern for the wellbeing of those around them.

"Those around them" have not been torturing them their entire lives. I think that 02 has been showing remarkable restraint in not just killing every adult she sees.

[Twi]

Then they'd drug her until she was a vegetable. They need her to save the world, but they don't need her conscious to do it as far as we know. It's fine and all to say she's showing restraint, but they have significantly more bodies to throw at her than she can reasonably kill and the only reason they let her on the battlefield is because they've got her roped in a lie that gets her to fight for them just like the other parasites.

That flashback made two thing painfully evident: These are just children who APE has had plenty of time to bring to heel and they're not some easily toppled regime. I'm still struggling to see how they'll do anything about the adults when they control all the resources and provide for them with the Klaxousaurs still hounding everyone. Unless they can deal with the latter and possibly restore the planet, the populace will be content with their lives and won't try to rebel.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

i don't think that because here ichigo has/had 0 chances with mc he never looked to her in a romantic way unlike in white album she even already ben slowly changed to her partner as they partnership progress and she get more and more afar from hiro unlike White Album where the "third broken wheel had a chance even if small and even get on date with him.

Here ichigo situation is more a "fanservice"(mc having more than one girl in love with him and a unrequeted love) tham actually a true love triangle.

You could also say that Zero Two has only really known Hiro for all of an afternoon, and Hiro even lost almost all of his memories of that time, while Ichigo has known Hiro for much longer, and she never tried to kill Hiro like Zero Two did. Ichigo just never told him of her romantic feelings for him.

The PV for episode 14 shows that Ichigo isn't giving up either. They also haven't moved away from the snowbound Garden. Unless something major changes in the setting and mood, I'm still getting White Album 2 vibes here.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Please don't just randomly accuse people of stuff, such as having no empathy. She has control over what she says, she has control over how she treats people, and she most certainly has taken risks that she did not need to take, and not even at risk to her own life, but somebody else's. Unlike some people here, I have not forgotten the testimony of the other squad some episodes back.

Even if everything she did was 100% against her own will (and not all of it was), she expresses no angst over it. She has never been shown to care for the wellbeing anyone other than herself.

"No empathy." my ass. I wonder if people would be so defensive of her if she was a dude, and her past self wasn't a cute loli.

Just for comparison, another work had a female character who, because of circumstances which are by no means under her full control, has arguably done much worse than what 02 has, but she actually expresses angst over it and ends up taking responsibility for her actions.



And again, this isn't even me harping on her as a character. She's most certainly not badly written. I just cannot see her like a good person, because she has not shown any redeeming qualities thus far. And no sob story can change that.

Disagree with me? Want to change my mind? Name three redeeming qualities she has.

The tragedy here isn't that bad things happening to a good person. It's that she never had a chance to grow up into a good person in the first place. Does she feel any loyalty toward her fellow man? No. Considering the life she's had thrust upon her since birth, is it surprising?

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Twi

You know the deal:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/jWvwlCSyrjM

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Finally watched this.

I like that bit at the end. Yeah, if we get "original Hiro" back, that would be something that will blindside quite a few people.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The tragedy here isn't that bad things happening to a good person. It's that she never had a chance to grow up into a good person in the first place. Does she feel any loyalty toward her fellow man? No. Considering the life she's had thrust upon her since birth, is it surprising?

It's becoming extremely frustrating that y'all really don't seem to understand what I'm saying at all. People just keep on repeating the same arguments over and over talking about everything she went through and all that. Like, I knew all these things from the get go. I don't need people telling me these things over and over. I'm not a moron, you know?


Maybe you all can just forgive the worst things a person can do on account of a crappy past and say she's the most virtuous person in the world and we should all fall in love with her and want to bone her. I can't. Respect needs to be earned. She does nothing to deserve mine. Two wrongs do not make a right.


Note how nobody actually took up my challenge to name three redeeming qualities.

And you know I don't really mind that I'm the only one who thinks this way. I'm getting kind of annoyed that people get so angry at me for not jumping on the bandwagon all the time.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Note how nobody actually took up my challenge to name three redeeming qualities.

How about the fact that she's saved everybody's lives multiple times? I'd say that's well over the value of three.

Also you're assuming she's had a horrific past but I think it's heavily implied from the "tests" she didn't want to have in the previous episode that her nightmare never ended and she's suffering just as much in the present. You really seem to think her horrible background has 0% mitigating factor just because you think people see it as a 100% mitigating factor, but I don't think anybody is under the delusion that she's fine the way she is now. Some nuance would be nice ya know.

Also, you're getting frustrated with others strawmanning you but you clearly just committed a strawman yourself in the very same post.

[Mistyclear]

Can we agree to disagree here on Zero 2’s character people??

[Dengar]

I suppose I can make some unfair assumptions when I both lack information and am feeling like I'm in some kind of spanish inquisition. I'm only human. I'm sorry.

Ok so she's still suffering right now, apparently? The problem is what reason do I have to feel sorry for her beyond her being a living thing that doesn't deserve to be treated in such a manner? But that's more akin to me feeling sorry for a dog that's being abused by their owner. I still do not respect her.

And exactly when did she save people's lives? I mean she killed some monsters because 1) she was ordered to and 2) she really hates those monsters, which I suppose indirectly leads to some lives being saved. But that's not entirely the same thing.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I suppose I can make some unfair assumptions when I both lack information and am feeling like I'm in some kind of spanish inquisition. I'm only human. I'm sorry.

How ironic that you ask for empathy and understanding in a debate about empathy and understanding.

Ok so she's still suffering right now, apparently? The problem is what reason do I have to feel sorry for her beyond her being a living thing that doesn't deserve to be treated in such a manner? But that's more akin to me feeling sorry for a dog that's being abused by their owner. I still do not respect her.

I'd feel very sorry for a dog that's been abused by its owner, as would I think a lot of people. And I'd feel the same for a human. I don't know why you think that's a bad thing. Nobody's asking you to respect her anymore than the average person. That's obviously not the intent of such characterisation. And you don't have to respect a character to like them either (again, at least any more than you would the average person).

And exactly when did she save people's lives? I mean she killed some monsters because 1) she was ordered to and 2) she really hates those monsters, which I suppose indirectly leads to some lives being saved. But that's not entirely the same thing.

There are multiple instances of her telling her superiors that those teammates will die if they don't let her fight and working with her teammates to kill the monsters and protecting them in some of the choreography. Hardly the actions of someone just doing what they're ordered to.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Haak

How ironic that you ask for empathy and understanding in a debate about empathy and understanding.

Did I? I don't recall asking for anything. I just explained why I made a booboo and then apologized.

Originally Posted by Haak

I'd feel very sorry for a dog that's been abused by its owner, as would I think a lot of people. And I'd feel the same for a human. I don't know why you think that's a bad thing. Nobody's asking you to respect her anymore than the average person. That's obviously not the intent of such characterisation. And you don't have to respect a character to like them either (again, at least any more than you would the average person).

If I don't have to do any of these things then what is this conversation even about anymore?

Originally Posted by Haak

There are multiple instances of her telling her superiors that those teammates will die if they don't let her fight and working with her teammates to kill the monsters and protecting them in some of the choreography. Hardly the actions of someone just doing what they're ordered to.

Ehhh I'm willing to see that as a different possible interpretation that may or may not be the correct one. Never really made that impression to me. Also she has in a similar situation gotten at least one person killed by her behavior, and the only excuse she gave was that he was 'weak'. So I have a hard time believing it comes from the goodness of her heart. Besides, it could also be explained away as her trying to convince them to let her fight, which is something she wants. Also this happened before she went batshit for some reason which is still quite unclear. That being said, I can agree to disagree on this one.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Haak

There are multiple instances of her telling her superiors that those teammates will die if they don't let her fight and working with her teammates to kill the monsters and protecting them in some of the choreography. Hardly the actions of someone just doing what they're ordered to.

Mmm.... except you have to remember that:

1.) She's under the belief that she needs to kill the monsters to be human.
2.) Those were Hiro's teammates, and he would be fairly upset which she was trying to avoid since she wanted him in the Franxx with her at the time.
3.) Hiro's the one who primarily controls her when its time to pilot, meaning a good deal of those actions are his doing.

Zero Two was fine playing ball with Hiro and the others until she noticed her fangs and horns were getting longer. Then she started pushing them away again until she reached the point where she was willing to kill him to stave it off a little longer.

Let's say she went through with it. Then what? Hiro's group was probably the most accepting team she'd been put with and she was willing to throw them away to become human, sacrificing what she had now for a better future for her. It's a very human thing to do, but not everyone is going to empathize with it because everyone has their values.

Personally, I make an effort to try to understand where she's coming from so I really do feel bad for her. She was lied to that she could become human. That's her goal and she was told to kill the monsters, even if devouring as many stamen as needed to do so was needed. Society itself has screwed not only her and them... but the moment she found someone who was willing to stand up for her and partner with her despite her inhuman traits, she let her own self-loathing and desires interfere and put them above the others. It was her own decision there, and while I understand it I can't say that I approve of it or have as much respect for her as I did before because betrayal sits poorly with me in general.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Did I? I don't recall asking for anything. I just explained why I made a booboo and then apologized.

Well in that case, apology not accepted.

If I don't have to do any of these things then what is this conversation even about anymore?

Well you tell me. You're the one asking why people liked this episode in the first place. XP

Ehhh I'm willing to see that as a different possible interpretation that may or may not be the correct one. Never really made that impression to me. Also she has in a similar situation gotten at least one person killed by her behavior, and the only excuse she gave was that he was 'weak'. So I have a hard time believing it comes from the goodness of her heart. Besides, it could also be explained away as her trying to convince them to let her fight, which is something she wants. Also this happened before she went batshit for some reason which is still quite unclear. That being said, I can agree to disagree on this one.

Well she did tell Ichigo she liked her and then licked Ichigo's face. We didn't know why she did that at the time but we do now. ZeroTwo may have had a bad experience with the other team but we only really heard one account and it's clear that ZeroTwo's character is designed to be cryptic.

And besides, you did ask.

Originally Posted by Twi

Mmm.... except you have to remember that:

1.) She's under the belief that she needs to kill the monsters to be human.
2.) Those were Hiro's teammates, and he would be fairly upset which she was trying to avoid since she wanted him in the Franxx with her at the time.
3.) Hiro's the one who primarily controls her when its time to pilot, meaning a good deal of those actions are his doing.

1) True but both motives aren't mutually exclusive
2) That didn't stop her screwing over Mitsuru.
3) Yeah but they also have to be in sync for it to work too.