Kokoro Connect Bullying Incident

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

One thing I always consider: What people see second-hand never really conveys the feelings when seeing first-hand. Basically, "decent" folks here would be those who saw knowing the details from a secondary source. It's always difficult to apply that standard to first-hand, on-the-site people.

Well, we know "first-hand, on-the-site" people's feelings.
For one, the atmosphere was clearly frozen, if you watch the video. The only ones laughing were the people on the stage.
Then the people who did the bullying. Some stay quiet, some "apologize" by saying it is all a misunderstanding or threatening people.

And if you continue to attempt to defend King Record by saying "You have to be there or what you are saying don't count!" <-- (Pretty much what the staff's excuse is themselves)
Then how about from the victim himself:
https://twitter.com/mitsuhiroichiki/...81233361911810
https://twitter.com/mitsuhiroichiki/...84752835964929
https://twitter.com/mitsuhiroichiki/...99004518920193
https://twitter.com/mitsuhiroichiki/...99879350075392

[Pikawil]

Am I the only one here who is reminded of the Roman Polanski extradition scandal a few years back and the Phil Fish "Japanese games suck" fiasco this year by this incident? For I believe the great question that binds these three cases together is whether or not we should let our enjoyment of some works of art be clouded by the behind-the-scenes shenagians of their creators...

[stormtrooper]

Even if we really knew what was going on, we could have said different things about this incident.

I thought that this is done already but it seems to me people are still discussing this days after.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

And if you continue to attempt to defend King Record

I defend no one in this sorry excuse of a prank and witch hunt. What I fight against is the witch hunt based on standards that are easily ignored when the criticizers themselves do it. Fortunately Animesuki doesn't have many of those hypocrites, but the reaction that people have shown clearly reminds me of all the double standards people impose on the entertainment industry.

Of course, the way some people have anonymously been implying I'm on the payroll of Yamakan and such was a bit annoying, but then I figure they don't have the confidence to say it outright in public.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Of course, the way some people have anonymously been implying I'm on the payroll of Yamakan and such was a bit annoying, but then I figure they don't have the confidence to say it outright in public.

It's worth pointing out for the umpteenth time that Yamakan was in no way involved with Kokoro Connect or the hazing incident apart from one Twitter comment after the story went viral. The producer Yamanaka is not Yamakan.

[Sumeragi]

I was just quoting what was left behind. It specifically asked "Are you on the payroll of Yamakan?"

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Good point. I hadn't, but now I just watched the YouTube eight-minute version, and it actually didn't change my mind. They were acting like seiyuus at a staged event. I didn't sense much of their real feelings.

That could leave some doubts to a certain extent (save perhaps Terashima, but that's my personal opinion). What actually sparked more flames imho were Kanemoto and Terashima speeches in the radio. People definitely can put great act if they are talented, but I share Guardian Enzo's point of view: I have hard time to see anything else than a real enjoyment behind that.

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

...but the reaction that people have shown clearly reminds me of all the double standards people impose on the entertainment industry.

I still don't get your claim of "double standards imposed on the entertainment industry", and so far, you didn't elaborate.
Sorry, but I don't even think it is a matter of moral put on the industry and whatnot: people have no idea what shady deals and all are done behind the scenes, but that doesn't mean they accept them whatsoever. And if they see something of that kind occuring, I see no damn reason to think it is hypocrite to react to these.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It shouldn't be lost in all this that Kokoro Connect was on track for very modest BD/DVD sales before any of this bullying stuff came up. If people are planning to blame poor sales (which will sadly be the reality, be it delayed by a month or not) on this incident, that isn't supported by what was being reported in terms of pre-sales, stalker points, etc. Those things aren't 100% accurate but they're generally fairly good predictors - within 10-15% either way - and Kokoro Connect was going to be South of the Manabi line even if the figures were off on the low side.

Are you certain of that? IIRC, the pre-order were around 5k, and they are now around 1K after all the incident has been exposed. Unless i'm completely mistaken with these numbers, that's a major "setback".

[Guardian Enzo]

I wish I'd saved the exact numbers but I'm pretty certain the preorders were nowhere close to 5K.

Edit: Here's the chart. I'm not fluent enough to interpret it in detail, but it doesn't look like it was ever close to 5K.

[jamdox]

How common is this sort of thing in the anime industry? Can we start keeping a record of abusers so that we can avoid future tainted products?

You know, I buy things from China all the time. I expect there to be cruelty in the world. But this was just so... personal. Not just exploitation, but personal, targeted maliciousness...

[stormtrooper]

I don't think the preorders reached 5k. To be honest it's just my estimate.

Save for my laptop, I don't think I really bought anything from China unless I wanted to.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I wish I'd saved the exact numbers but I'm pretty certain the preorders were nowhere close to 5K.

Edit: Here's the chart. I'm not fluent enough to interpret it in detail, but it doesn't look like it was ever close to 5K.

Back in mid-August before this whole issue got public attention, the infamous "Stalker Points" (rough estimate of sales based on Amazon pre-order ranking extrapolation) showed the first volume at 1,012 points. So yeah, it was never trending towards close to 5k sales even back then.

The latest data show that, though there was a pronounced dip while this issue was in the spotlight, there was a bit of a rebound, and pre-orders are basically remaining around the same rather middling levels.

In the end, I don't think there's evidence to say that this issue had a profound impact on disc sales, but the sales were never looking too promising to start with. (It's hard for me to think of any cases where a show like this has sold particularly well. These sorts of character-based emotional dramas are a real niche in terms of the Japanese buyer's market, which is why we don't see them that often.)

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Pikawil

Am I the only one here who is reminded of the Roman Polanski extradition scandal a few years back and the Phil Fish "Japanese games suck" fiasco this year by this incident? For I believe the great question that binds these three cases together is whether or not we should let our enjoyment of some works of art be clouded by the behind-the-scenes shenagians of their creators...

This. And besides, Phil was right.

[Lenneth4]

If i knew it about that in time , i would drop the series.
I truly hate this kind of bullying

It's really really Lame
how some people who works and have great job like this can enjoy doing this

This anime is still running ?

[vansonbee]

The anime is still going.

It's currently on #12 and there 5 more. I'm crossing my fingers for a second season, because the series is real good. The plot/situation is unique than the average anime.

This incident did threw me off and I had a hard continuing the anime, but I'm glad I did. I treated the incident and the series separately.

[Lenneth4]

Thanks
I saw until episodes 10
I stopped for the moment

The concept is great but the characters are killing me
Maybe i'm biased by the bullyiing incident but i'm not sure of continue the tv series.
It's pretty bad in my book despite the great beginning (especially until episode 5)

Anyway they should remove the seiyuu no matter what

[Dextro]

I saw this at the regular Kokoro Connect thread and thought that it might be relevant here as well: Kokoro Connect BDs/DVDs to Use Different Opening Theme

It seems like the OP change a couple of episodes back was really related to this incident and I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that it was all a stunt as they claim it was.

[bhl88]

Eri is also involved (they are boycotting her even though she's not): from what I read on the responses

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Dextro

It seems like the OP change a couple of episodes back was really related to this incident and I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that it was all a stunt as they claim it was.

It doesn't mean that everyone peripherally related to the situation was behaving appropriately (or necessarily that everyone knew). It may (or may not) be instructive that, when the official apology came out and listed all the people who were aware and apologized to, they did not mention eufonius in any way. But besides, the band itself could be having some rights-related struggles at the moment related to Hajime Kikuchi's stepping away from the group, so the production committee may not have had much choice but to make the switch. It's hard to get a clean read on the internal politics at play.

[DonQuigleone]

I don't know, from what I can see, this guy is a fairly well established seiyuu already. It's not like this prank was preying on some young innocent newbie. I thought this kind of thing was fairly common in the Japanese celebrity/talk show circuit?

[Marcus H.]

I do remember that he is well-experienced too, but what makes him a target of this incident was Yamanaka himself and that seiyuu's tendency to be "vulnerable" to pranks like this.

I thought this kind of thing was fairly common in the Japanese celebrity/talk show circuit?

I think so, and it's quite saddening, actually.