Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Admiral Larsen]

Originally Posted by monster

Nope, just one: haters hating on Kira.

After what happened with Kira in SEED Destiny (not to mention its influence on later Gundam shows), well can you blame them.


As as for Fukuda, well after what he had done, well if he hates it, then its got to be good.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Zeydra

As far as I'm concerned Shin was never "the" main character of Destiny. Destiny had multiple main characters, Athrun, Shin, and Kira. Athrun was the focus of the early part of the series, Shin had the longest stretch in the middle due to being the new character, and Kira shared the focus with Shin near the end.

Nope. Fukuda insists that Shinn was the main character throughout all of Destiny even before the focus shift from him to Kira. It'd make more sense if it treated them all as the main character with each of them getting their own focus evenly throughout the entirety of the show... but that's clearly not what happens with Destiny. First it was mainly Shinn with some Athrun, and then it was all Kira with Athrun jumping ship.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Facts are facts, Shinn beat Kira in a duel and at the Orb neither Kira nor Shinn could gain the upper hand against each other. Than Athrun shows up and trashes Shinn like he was nothing, kinda puts all of Kira's efforts to shame. Of course Shinn tends to be unstable when he fights Athrun while he less unstable when he fights Kira since he doesn't know Kira.

Have you forget that Kira can use SEED mode whatever he want?
If that was beam = game over for Shin.(Kira was just playing with him.)
Also even when Shin used SEED mode > Kira have the upper hand before Ray joined the battle don't to mention in last battle Kira > Shin.

What the heck are you rambling on about? No one said SRW canon takes priority. SRW canon is SRW canon, in L Shinn is a very nice guy that befriends Kira and likes him since Kira understands Shinn and helps Shinn save Stella instead of what happened in the Anime.

So Anime Canon = Anime Canon.

SRW Canon = SRW Canon.

Neither contradicts each other because they don't give a rats ass about the other.

You said that, every time one said thing you bring thing from SRW which worth notthing since it's not cannon.

As for Fukuda, he was not happy that SEED Destiny was so vastly changed in Z and later L. Fans seemed to love the changes far more than what the Anime did since the games portrayed Shinn is a far better light and they treated Shinn as a Main Character and Kira as a Supporting Character. As it should have been in the Anime considering SEED Destiny copied much from Zeta.

Last I check in SRW Z main character = OG character...
And even if it was true it mean nothing > like I said > SRW story mean nothing > it's not cannon.
Only Gundam story is cannon.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Admiral Larsen

After what happened with Kira in SEED Destiny (not to mention its influence on later Gundam shows), well can you blame them.

For hating a character? Nope.
For letting their hate to cause them to make a stupid analogy? Heck yeah.

[Soaring Griffin]

Originally Posted by Zeydra

And in all honesty I feel making Shin "likeable" goes against his actual character. He was established as a rash, blunt to the point of being rude, and fiery young man. And he was established as such from as early as episode 4, long before any of the rumoured stuff in Destiny. As far as I can tell Shin's tale was always meant to be a tragedy where he was swallowed up by his own demons and personality. And that's why I like Shin.

Exactly, people who complain about Shinn not developing are missing the point of his character and don't realize that he did get developed, just not in the traditional Gundam way. I didn't like him at first but when I realized what they were doing with him I grew to like him too.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by monster

For hating a character? Nope.
For letting their hate to cause them to make a stupid analogy? Heck yeah.

Hating Kira (or any other character) for whatever reason or even without a reason is perfectly fine in my opinion. And the analogys are just fun to read.

[monster]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Hating Kira (or any other character) for whatever reason or even without a reason is perfectly fine in my opinion. And the analogys are just fun to read.

Well, it's not like me "blaming" them is going to change anything. But, since the question was asked...

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by monster

The strategy consisted of two parts:

1. Knowing Kira does not hit vital parts.
2. Impulse's ability.

With Destiny, he was still able to do (1), notice that Destiny wasn't disabled against Strike Freedom, but Shinn can't do (2).

And then you add the fact that Kira wasn't worried about the Archangel during their second fight.

So what do you get in the end?

Answer: A tie until someone makes a mistake or someone else interfers. In this case, the latter happened when Rey and Athrun interfered.

Just rework the strategy to fit Destiny's strengths. But by the time SF shows up, Shinn is just too lost in his rage to form any kind of strategy. He totally forgot Kira doesn't aim for the cockpit. He just rushes in without thinking.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by monster

Well, it's not like me "blaming" them is going to change anything. But, since the question was asked...

Exactly!

Originally Posted by Soaring Griffin

Exactly, people who complain about Shinn not developing are missing the point of his character and don't realize that he did get developed, just not in the traditional Gundam way. I didn't like him at first but when I realized what they were doing with him I grew to like him too.

I won't call it development, rather I think it's a statement. In an interview after the end of Destiny, Fukuda talked about how he wanted to tell a story of pure tragedy with Shinn. He never intended for Shinn to have a moment of self reflection and make decisions on his own. He was never supposed to "see the light".

Actually I think it's a very interesting idea, but the execution was just too bad.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Just rework the strategy to fit Destiny's strengths. But by the time SF shows up, Shinn is just too lost in his rage to form any kind of strategy. He totally forgot Kira doesn't aim for the cockpit. He just rushes in without thinking.

Shinn has done his best piloting while filled with rage, if anything him raging makes him pilot better.

Also, the limb advantage the Impulse had against Kira is nullified with Destiny, because it lacks the core splendor system

[monster]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Just rework the strategy to fit Destiny's strengths.

Which is what exactly? Kira can match Destiny's firepower and speed with Strike Freedom.

But by the time SF shows up, Shinn is just too lost in his rage to form any kind of strategy. He totally forgot Kira doesn't aim for the cockpit. He just rushes in without thinking.

Knowing Kira doesn't aim the cockpit helps Shinn to not make unnecessary movements to avoid Kira's attack; it doesn't help him beat Kira.

What helped Shinn beat Kira the first time was being able to use Impulse's unique ability and Kira not concentrating fully on the battle.

With their second battle, Shinn lost both advantages.

[aeriolewinters]

So that means by all intents and purposes, that the Optimum Suit for Shinn is Destiny Impulse with a hyper Deuterion reactor?

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Shinn has done his best piloting while filled with rage, if anything him raging makes him pilot better.

Also, the limb advantage the Impulse had against Kira is nullified with Destiny, because it lacks the core splendor system

His rage didn't consume him then though. Sure it was a tool that helped him greatly, but when he went further into his rage after ep42, he fought to a tie with Kira and got owned by Athrun.

Shinn is a good pilot, but his rage can cost him if he lets it consume him.

[aeriolewinters]

Which is what exactly? Kira can match Destiny's firepower and speed with Strike Freedom.

When we talk Power, Freedom wins over Destiny. But Speed on the atmosphere: Destiny has it covered.

What I think they need to do in the Destiny Remaster is: don't equip the Dragoons to the Strike Freedom when on atmosphere.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by quagmire

His rage didn't consume him then though. Sure it was a tool that helped him greatly, but when he went further into his rage after ep42, he fought to a tie with Kira and got owned by Athrun.

Shinn is a good pilot, but his rage can cost him if he lets it consume him.

Shinn's rage makes him a better pilot

Episode 12, he raged and activated seed mode for the first time
Blast impulse vs Freedom, he raged, activated SEED and dodged Freedom's beamslash
Impulse vs Freedom, he was raging the entire fight
him vs Sting in Destroy, he was raging through the roof
He got humiliated by Kira during the battle of orb, Raged and started performing even with him until he had to retreat.
He finished off Athrun in a gouf off while raging
He went toe to toe with Athrun while raging until he finally snapped and tried to shining finger Lunamaria
He finished Auel off while raging

the only time it doesnt work is when he gets heavily influenced by other things like Athrun returning after he thought he killed him or when he is getting wierd Stella flashes

[Rickketik]

I'm Luv'n this remaster YO!

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

When we talk Power, Freedom wins over Destiny. But Speed on the atmosphere: Destiny has it covered.

What I think they need to do in the Destiny Remaster is: don't equip the Dragoons to the Strike Freedom when on atmosphere.

Not a great idea.. The wings are for the aerial tactics system (HiMAT) to work properly. It's true that Destiny (WoL) is faster than SF on earth in terms of shear speed, but the Freedom can maneuver much better in an aerial battle.

But that said, I would love to see a battle between SF's Voiture Lumiere engines Vs Destiny's WoL on earth!

[Rising Dragon]

Removing the Super DRAGOONs doesn't mean removing the wings, you know. The Super DRAGOONs are just dead weight in the atmosphere. Remove them and not only would the Strike Freedom be that much lighter and faster, but it'd have access to its Voiture Lumiere.

[I Fail at Life]

Either Change Strike Freedom's Movement Animation/Speed with the Dragoons equiped In Earth's Atmosphere or Remove them ''Period'' so the Voiture Lumiere System can Flow

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Episode 12, he raged and activated seed mode for the first time
Blast impulse vs Freedom, he raged, activated SEED and dodged Freedom's beamslash
Impulse vs Freedom, he was raging the entire fight
him vs Sting in Destroy, he was raging through the roof

I did say his rage was a tool for him didn't I? All I said he just can't let it consume him like it started to do after episode 42 when Freedom and Athrun returned(hence why he snapped in the last episode).

He finished off Athrun in a gouf off while raging

Even a non-raging Shinn could have defeated Athrun. Athrun wasn't trying to fight trying to protect Meyrin and he was in a vastly inferior machine.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Removing the Super DRAGOONs doesn't mean removing the wings, you know. The Super DRAGOONs are just dead weight in the atmosphere. Remove them and not only would the Strike Freedom be that much lighter and faster, but it'd have access to its Voiture Lumiere.

Would the Voiture Lumiere even have any effect on Earth? The Voiture Lumiere utilized the solar winds in order to help propulsion. Earth's magnetic field protects it from such winds so the Voiture Lumiere's would have been useless. I know that is how Stargazer's Voiture Lumiere's worked at least. Maybe SF's version was different?

Plus depending on the shape of the Dragoons, they may help with lift when SF extends its wings. Also, the Dragoons thrusters do still work when docked( as seen in episode 39 when SF first launched). So removing them could prove detrimental.

[Rickketik]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Would the Voiture Lumiere even have any effect on Earth? The Voiture Lumiere utilized the solar winds in order to help propulsion. Earth's magnetic field protects it from such winds so the Voiture Lumiere's would have been useless. I know that is how Stargazer's Voiture Lumiere's worked at least. Maybe SF's version was different?

You might be right. Found this on Gundma wiki:

The (Destiny's) Wings of Light were actually reverse engineered from the DSSD's Stargazer's Voiture Lumiere propulsion system, unlike the Strike Freedom, who derived the system directly from the Stargazer.

I think the info is from the Delta Astray manga, but I don't know if this is true. It's wiki after all.
But I think the SF also uses extra engines in the wings for propulsion in Space and this can work on earth as well.