AnimeSuki Choice Award Winners 2011

[FlavorOfLife]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

So because you don't personally like a show it is overrated?

Two things
i) Obviously i'm not the only one from the voting results
ii) Its overrated because some people (name redacted) don't bother to remember the series as a whole (and its poor points) and focus on the second half.

Seriously, drop the rose tinited glasses.

[Proto]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

As for the rest, it was a foregone conclusion that Madoka would win almost everything it was up for (mystery??), the herd mentality was strong with this one and it's certainly a good show. At least AnoHana didn't get shut out.

Baaaaaaaaaaa

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

IMO Kyuubey was/is like a gun seller, you use the weapons for good or evil, its your decision. That doesn't makes him evil, just a gun seller.

????

Were we even watching the same show?

Kuybee is the devil. Tempting little girls into their inevitable destruction by being very careful not to warn them about the consequences.

He operates more like a drug pusher/pimp then a gun seller.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

Two things
i) Obviously i'm not the only one from the voting results
ii) Its overrated because some people (name redacted) don't bother to remember the series as a whole (and its poor points) and focus on the second half.

Seriously, drop the rose tinited glasses.

What because people didn't vote for it it's overrated? I think you need to look up the meaning of that word.

People didn't vote for it because either they didn't like it or they liked another show more or maybe they didn't even watch it. Being overrated has nothing to do with it.

As for your 2nd point that is all down to your personal opinion and says nothing about the shows quality or lack of.

I am not going to argue with you whether it was a good show (from beginning to end or not) because that is besides the point and comes down to personal opinion. I still don't see the reason to gloat over a series you dislike not winning.

[MisaoFan]

I feel like the opening theme of Dog Days doesn't appear as a "Best Opening/Ending Theme" in this final choice and I'm dissapointed.

[FlavorOfLife]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

What because people didn't vote for it it's overrated? I think you need to look up the meaning of that word.

People didn't vote for it because either they didn't like it or they liked another show more or maybe they didn't even watch it. Being overrated has nothing to do with it.

o·ver·rate (vr-rt)
tr.v. o·ver·rat·ed, o·ver·rat·ing, o·ver·rates
To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Sackett

????

Were we even watching the same show?

Kuybee is the devil. Tempting little girls into their inevitable destruction by being very careful not to warn them about the consequences.

He operates more like a drug pusher/pimp then a gun seller.

Eventhough i can't say that Kyuubey is evil (i don't think he is, because he does not have the same sense of good and right as we do. Also his motives to save his own world by collecting energy is not wrong either.) and that makes him a villain, but he sure is an antagonist for the serie.

[Ithekro]

I'm fine with Nichijou winning comedy. It made me laugh each episode.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

How does a "moeblob" show beat out the likes out of something like Redline. Or even Kaiji, Moshidora or God Only Knows.

Simple answer,the idolm@ster fandom is organized.

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Was a bit worried when the voting started, so I visited almost every member of the IM@S social group asking for vote.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by totoum

Simple answer,the idolm@ster fandom is organized.

Organized or not, how do you explain that it can fit into either sports, games or hobbies?

[Stealther]

Wow, people are taking who wins way too serious. Relax, it was and will always be a popularity contest. If you're so dissatisfied with that the combined community voted write or blog or post in some thread why you think the results was a failure, what should have won instead, and most importantly give your reasons why one anime is better than another. Then some people might actually read your whine. Right now 50% of the reasons seems like "ppl didn't watch this or didn't watch that",because if they did, they would obviously think like me and vote like I did. Step down of your pedestal and instead explain why one anime was better than another.

For me it seems that it is unthinkable that fans of Redline in particular, can't imagine another winner in visuals. Explain why, and I'll give my counterview. Heck, if I find the motivation I'll even comment on each category and choice and my thoughts behind the choices.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

o·ver·rate (vr-rt)
tr.v. o·ver·rat·ed, o·ver·rat·ing, o·ver·rates
To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly.

So you are saying the people who voted for the series as opposed to those who didn't are overrating it? Wow!

And I'm sorry but I dont think an Internet poll tells us whether a series is good or bad. It just tells us what is the most popular series on these boards. The quality of a series is subjective. On another site, the results might have been different.

Why don't you just be happy that a series you enjoyed won & stop putting down a series that didn't.

[-Antares-]

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

o·ver·rate (vr-rt)
tr.v. o·ver·rat·ed, o·ver·rat·ing, o·ver·rates
To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly.

It's fine to say that Mawaru Penguindrum is overrated, but just remember that Madoka Magica is the show that sweeped these awards and is being lauded as a masterpiece by a huge number of people despite its many flaws, which most people seem to just sweep under the rug as nonexistent.

I'm a little disappointed with many of the winners but I'm not surprised (I didn't vote anyway, so I don't have much right to complain). And I pretty much feel how Blue-kun does about it. The system is fine how it is. Imposing more restrictions would probably just deter people from voting and cause more work and more arguments. Other than that, all I have to say about this year's awards is... I think I should check out Steins;Gate.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yeah, I'd also like to see fanservice/ecchi split from moe.

It's not like either category doesn't have enough shows to warrant it. At least since K-On!'s first season, ever year has had a significant number of "healing" style moe anime (and most of these have little-to-no fanservice). And every year there's plenty of fanservice/ecchi shows. I really don't see the point in these two types of shows, with very different atmospheres/tones from one another (Tamayura ~Hitotose~ is very different from Maken-Ki), continuing to be combined like this.

I think it's also useful to look at what some of the more notable moe shows of 2011 were:

Ikoku Meiro no Croisee
Tamayura ~Hitotose~
The Idolm@ster
Mashiroiro Symphony
A Channel
Denpa Onna

None of which actually ended up being options, probably because even the shows that did have fanservice (such as Mashiroiro and Denpa Onna) aren't what one would typically think of as fanservice or ecchi shows. The list we did get was more or less "best harem comedy of 2011". Madoka had more moe in it than most of them. (Actually, I do consider Madoka a moe show, just not one I'd likely nominate.)

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Stealther

For me it seems that it is unthinkable that fans of Redline in particular, can't imagine another winner in visuals. Explain why, and I'll give my counterview.

I'll be brief.
The designs are quite original,not something you see everyday.
The framerate is much higher than even the avereage movie let alone a TV show.
The backrounds are quite detailed,you can observe everything in the backround,evryone is doing something different.
It's 100% hand drawn which is a plus,especially when it comes to the cars,cars in redline look a whole lot better than the CG cars you see in anime today.

My gripe isn't so much at Redline not winning but Fate/zero was probably my least favorite of the nominees.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Bri

No, quite a bit less. The current system is a "First Past the Post " vote which has well known drawbacks.

All voting systems have drawbacks (see Arrow's General Possibiilty Theorem), but some systems perform better in some instances. When there are multiple candidates, many voting theorists would recommend using "approval voting" where you get to vote for as many of the options as you like.

[Reckoner]

I'm going to steal Sorrow-Kun's lay out from his blog, and hope he doesn't mind .

{A1} Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi
{A2} Horror/Mystery
{A3} Drama/Slice-of-Life/Sports
{A4} Comedy/Moe
{A5} Romance
{B1} Movie
{B2} OVA/Short
{B3} Best Adapted Script/Story
{B4} Best Original Script/Story
{B5} Visuals/Animation
{B6} Opening/Ending/Insert Song
{B7} Soundtrack
{C1} Female Character
{C2} Male Character
{C3} Villian
{D} Best Overall Anime

-------

Personally I don't know why people's first inclination in these awards is always to split categories so that XYZ is going to be more appropriate to win it. These awards are too much of the time, ULTRA vague. It is hard to know what fits where, and worst some of these categories have difficulty getting nominations fit in the first place!

Now if we took something like this and lets say we stipulated that a show cannot be nominated for more than one {Ai} category, then really I think all our problems would be solved. It would not be so goddamn vague and anime would be going to the most appropriate titles I feel.

Stuff like Redline losing is impossible to prevent in categories other than movies if we split it off because movies just aren't watched by people. It's not a matter of hive mind going for the most popular show, people just don't watch the damn thing in the first place.

But here you would be able to cut down on categories, making the awards more clearly defined, and hey, LESS VOTER FATIGUE. I don't know about you guys but the awards this year got me exhausted to fill them out.

Basically tl;dr : CUT DOWN ON CATEGORIES

[Stealther]

Originally Posted by Bri

No, quite a bit less. The current system is a "First Past the Post " vote which has well known drawbacks. Averages based on grades deals with the biggest problem of the current system: exposure. Shows that haven't been seen by a sizable majority of the voters have no chance to win regardless of quality. Worse, a sizable part of the votes goes to waste without having an impact on the outcome.

The only way for the current system to give a more "representative" result then grading/averages is if all voters who have not seen all shows in a category abstains from voting in that category.

Off course there is a downsides to grades: retaliation grading between rival fans and a small minority can push an obscure show by giving high grades while the majority abstains.

However I would not advocate a switch to grading as it leads to a lot more work for the organizers and a less friendly atmosphere. I enjoy the current format but simply take the outcomes with a grain of salt.

So in other words a weighting system would probably not do much. It won't make people watch more, and it won't make people abstain. And with every freedom of grading your votes more comes the risk of being able of abusing the system more. Which is exactly what happened in another anime awards when the system was implemented. If you are a big community like Animesuki, popularity will be a big factor. And this popularity will make people give Madoka and S;G even more points, so in the end the results will be even more skewed.

The system suggested by SeijiSensei is better, but like any system is abusable if you wish. Say for example you really enjoyed both Madoka, S;G and Penguindrum in TV Series, but you rather want Madoka than S;G to win, you'll just vote for Madoka and Penguindrum (for the recognition). I still think it is a good system, but expecting honest voting when tactical voting is such an obvious choice probably isn't wise.


As for the Redline comment I'll come back on that.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I'm going to steal Sorrow-Kun's lay out from his blog, and hope he doesn't mind .

{A1} Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi
{A2} Horror/Mystery
{A3} Drama/Slice-of-Life/Sports
{A4} Comedy/Moe
{A5} Romance
{B1} Movie
{B2} OVA/Short
{B3} Best Adapted Script/Story
{B4} Best Original Script/Story
{B5} Visuals/Animation
{B6} Opening/Ending/Insert Song
{B7} Soundtrack
{C1} Female Character
{C2} Male Character
{C3} Villian
{D} Best Overall Anime

-------

Personally I don't know why people's first inclination in these awards is always to split categories so that XYZ is going to be more appropriate to win it. These awards are too much of the time, ULTRA vague. It is hard to know what fits where, and worst some of these categories have difficulty getting nominations fit in the first place!

Now if we took something like this and lets say we stipulated that a show cannot be nominated for more than one {Ai} category, then really I think all our problems would be solved. It would not be so goddamn vague and anime would be going to the most appropriate titles I feel.

Stuff like Redline losing is impossible to prevent in categories other than movies if we split it off because movies just aren't watched by people. It's not a matter of hive mind going for the most popular show, people just don't watch the damn thing in the first place.

But here you would be able to cut down on categories, making the awards more clearly defined, and hey, LESS VOTER FATIGUE. I don't know about you guys but the awards this year got me exhausted to fill them out.

Basically tl;dr : CUT DOWN ON CATEGORIES

While i can agree on cutting down on some categories (like the adaptions and orginal works), i disagree on cutting them on the genres.

By cutting down on those categories and mashing 2-3 genres in 1 category will make everything even more vague. With your example, Steins;Gate probably would have lost in the action/fantasy/sci-fi category against madoka due to madoka being the more popular serie overall.

Or an even better idea: let's just make one category for the best Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi/Horror/Mystery/Drama/Slice-of-Life/Sports/Romance. Oh wait, we already that one.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

All voting systems have drawbacks (see Arrow's General Possibiilty Theorem), but some systems perform better in some instances. When there are multiple candidates, many voting theorists would recommend using "approval voting" where you get to vote for as many of the options as you like.

While it's probably worth some consideration, I personally am not a fan of approval voting when it comes to "best of" awards. I think it overly punishes bolder (and hence polarizing) shows and characters while rewarding the ones that most voters don't particularly love but like just enough to say "I guess I'll vote for this character/show too just as added insurance that the one I hate doesn't win!"

Last Sinner has long said that moe competitions like ISML is about who's hated the least rather than who's loved the most. Unfortunately, I think he's often right about that, and I think such an approach undermines awards that are supposed to be "best of" awards and not "least hated" awards.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I'm going to steal Sorrow-Kun's lay out from his blog, and hope he doesn't mind .

{A1} Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi
{A2} Horror/Mystery
{A3} Drama/Slice-of-Life/Sports
{A4} Comedy/Moe
{A5} Romance
{B1} Movie
{B2} OVA/Short
{B3} Best Adapted Script/Story
{B4} Best Original Script/Story
{B5} Visuals/Animation
{B6} Opening/Ending/Insert Song
{B7} Soundtrack
{C1} Female Character
{C2} Male Character
{C3} Villian
{D} Best Overall Anime

-------

This is an interesting format suggestion. The only one that really stands out to me like a sore thumb is Drama/Slice of Life/Sports. Putting Drama and Slice of Life in the same category seems pretty off to me.

So here's a slightly altered suggestion.

{A1} Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi
{A2} Horror/Mystery
{A3} Drama/Sports
{A4} Slice-of-Life/Moe
{A5} Romance/Comedy
{B1} Movie
{B2} OVA/Short
{B3} Best Adapted Script/Story
{B4} Best Original Script/Story
{B5} Visuals/Animation
{B6} Opening/Ending/Insert Song
{B7} Soundtrack
{C1} Female Character
{C2} Male Character
{C3} Villian
{D} Best Overall Anime

I think it makes sense to combine Sports with "Drama", since Sports-based anime shows tend to be inherently dramatic.

If we look at the list of 2011 moe shows that 0utf0xZer0 brought up, most of them could also be considered Slice of Life (at least going by a loose definition of the genre). A lot of modern moe shows are "Healing" type anime, and those tend to have an atmosphere very much like classic Slice of Life.

Romcoms are very common in anime, so it makes some sense to me for Romance/Comedy to share a category. This is especially since pure romances and pure comedies are increasingly rare and/or of questionable quality in the eyes of many AS voters it seems.