2008-07-30, 20:17 | Link #1301 |
Truth Martyr
Author
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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Use his full name. When we use ark, it refers to arkhangelsk, the self-claimed Math Professor of Nanoha magitech.
(Incidentally: Why arkhangelsk? Did you visit there? Or just thought the russian for archangel sounded cool? Because I remember the russians had a naval base there before... garh, random curiousity before work.)
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2008-07-30, 20:26 | Link #1302 | |||
He Who Smites Shippers
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 36
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Force Burst — In this method that requires four cartridges, she fires the shot much like the Divine Buster. Two variations exist for Force Burst: she may fire all arms of the shot at once, or delay the last one until after the others weaken the target's defenses. Barrel Shot — Nanoha may precede an attack in Excelion Mode with an invisible binding field to prevent the target from moving. Quote:
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2008-07-30, 20:31 | Link #1303 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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I am not a "Wiki-hater". I just Believe that people who write those don't have better sources than me on Nanoha.
Those two definitions sounds much like fanmade to me. I'd wait for someone to give the DVD booklet thing. Myself, i believe that Excellion was imperfect, and thus couldn't make a single continuous precise shot like Divine Buster. Exceed can, though (reworked main frame). What we see of Force burst is just that - an icomplete overworked spell. Of course...that's just my opinion. For the magical organ, it can be a way of saying it's something that belongs to someone, but is made of magic? It's Translated, after all. |
2008-07-30, 20:37 | Link #1304 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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Arty, it's simple logic actually. Too much ANYTHING in the body is bad for it. Bad things, good things. It doesn't matter. Too much of it, and the body is going to start screwing up.
Too much air causes hyperventilation... too much water causes hyponutremia. Too much adrenaline can cause cardio problems and shock... So it's easily concievable even if it is not directly stated that too much magical energy can be just as nasty to a body not conditioned to handle it as any other more natural material. I'll even assemble a medical term to make it sound nifty.... "Veneficemia" - Magic Poisoning =p |
2008-07-30, 20:47 | Link #1305 | |
He Who Smites Shippers
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 36
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2008-07-30, 20:51 | Link #1306 | |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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I'm simply pointing out that there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. In the case of say, a Belken Knight as you're going with here. Too Much, is Much Higher. But you can STILL get Too Much. |
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2008-07-30, 20:54 | Link #1307 | ||||
***y translator
Scanlator
Join Date: Jan 2006
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2008-07-30, 20:57 | Link #1308 | |
He Who Smites Shippers
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 36
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The abilities of a well-trained Belkan Knight should logically be defined by what level of magic their linker cores can handle, not how much magic their bodies can withstand before giving out. If you're defining a knight's abilities by the limits of magic their bodies can contain, I think you've done something wrong while training that knight.
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2008-07-30, 21:07 | Link #1309 | |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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Like I've said. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Obviously, for your trained knight, the Too Much Point is so much higher, that it's effectively a non-issue, unless you start throwing around arteficial boosts and their side-effects. But imagine the unsafe cases. Those with high power, no training, and have the resources to take advantage of it before they are effectively ready. Like a Nanoha without sage council of a ferret and her own device. Or how about Hayate, after kicking the crap out of the main defense program, passed out after having used her high level power for effectively the first time... that was just channeling massive amounts of power into external attacks. Could you imagine the damage done had she been channelling it for close quarters fisticuffs? Ouchies. I could see Bad Things happening from such oversaturation. Her body was already in Delta Sierra as it was. |
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2008-07-30, 22:05 | Link #1310 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Overtraining is a problem in the real world, too. ;p
Professional athletes don't typically train at 100% every day, especially in high-contact sports like football. You train hard enough to do some good for your stamina, but not so hard that you're putting significant wear on the connective tissue. If you go all out every day, or if you train without regard to your physical limits, you've got a good chance of blowing out an ACL or something. Lots of athletes have good abilities in high school, but suffer an injury at one point or another, and never get to the big leagues because they never recover back to competitive levels. So it's not going too far to imagine that magic can work the same way. Basically, in Strikers, they assert that Nanoha (a) injured herself through excessive use of powerful magic when she was younger (and further because she got attacked), and (b) injured herself through the events late in Strikers, costing her a few percent of her maximum potential (though she's proven the docs wrong before, so maybe she can get it back.) We don't know for certain that Nanoha's problems aren't unique. Fate and Hayate didn't have the same problems (though neither of them are the beamspamming monsters that Nanoha is, nor did they get into enough scraps to pick up nicknames, so maybe that helped.) The problem isn't so widespread that everyone knows about it, or it wouldn't have come as a surprise to the forwards; they'd have been cautioned against it in their basic training. We also have good reason to believe that the Linker Core is one resilient lil' bugger. Nanoha's and Fate's take a hell of a beating in A's and they bounce back in a short time span. Then again, "drained" might not be the same kind of damage as "overloaded". So we can conclude that this is a problem that Nanoha ran into more than once, but that the majority of mages don't run into. Is it just that Nanoha's that hellishly powerful, and weaker mages can't overwork themselves into injury? Or is it just that Nanoha has a habit of fighting over her weight class, and that any mage that regularly trains like an idiot would run into this problem? We can't really know. But we can see why Nanoha would be specially careful, especially if she's intentionally taking relatively weak mages and working the hell out of them. |
2008-07-31, 02:15 | Link #1311 |
Blazing General
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 37
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I'd guess that it's a matter of technique rather than personal power; Blaster is specifically a limit-breaking/overdrive technique, and her earlier problems were attributed to using collection magic and especially the then-rare cartridge system, both of which allow the mage to interface with magical power in amounts exceeding what their body could inflict on itself.
Less about overwork, more about having rare abilities/equipment that allow you to do things to your body you normally wouldn't be able to.
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2008-07-31, 02:24 | Link #1312 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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On the other hand, i have my own theories about how normal Starlight Breaker is. |
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2008-07-31, 03:11 | Link #1313 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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It is possible to overstress your body with the use of magic, however its a good thing to note that there is a specific reason for Nanoha's injuries:
集束砲 - Accumulatory Cannonfire (StS DVD3) Spells which uses one’s own mana to accumulate released Mana in the surroundings, then reuses and re-releases it as a bombardment attack. These accumulatory skills are unique in that they allow reuse of Mana which has already been used. Furthermore, in addition to magic released by the user, Mana released by any opponents can also be collected and reused, allowing enormous output potential. For Bombardment Mages, these attacks can be said to be nigh-impossible ultimate attacks; however, in cases dealing with Mana levels greatly exceeding the user’s limits, the burden placed on the user’s body can be prodigious. Nanoha's favourite spell, Starlight Breaker, doesn't just use her own mana, but also the mana from her surroundings. Basically, she is using more mana then she can handle. From this, we can see that the body has a certain amount of mana, which you can do one of three things with:
Nanoha did the last, she filled her body with more mana then she could handle, causing the body to 'crack' this would have been bad on its own, but since there were enemies around, it just got worse. So based on this, Hayate can do far bigger and nastier spells with less side effects, why? Because her mana pool, or her 'bottle' is bigger, so she can handle more mana before she even needs to try and overcharge it. |
2008-07-31, 03:39 | Link #1314 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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oh, so that is canon? where did you get that?
It was the "theory" i was thinking about, though in a different way. In my Negima/Nanoha Cross, it will be Revealed Nanoha can't use elemental or spirit based spell, but is instead a pure mana type. She can do things with mana other can't, but can't do things most people can. One of these things is the reuse of mana. It's my way of explaining why Takamichi can't incant spells (the negima verse mainly use elements or spirits, and never use equations). |
2008-07-31, 04:05 | Link #1315 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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It started from "Let's give Hayate tremendous power boost for physical close combat because she has huge chakr... mana pool!" in an attempt to deshaft her.
I say NO. It's a big NO. Yes, there are such a thing as people dying from training well beyond their limits, users of enhancing drugs dying because of a heart attack (it's only the drug's fault? Body has its limits too), and this is for olympic athletes. And Hayate just happens to not be one. And why do "HAYATE NEEDS CLOSE COMBAT!" always crawl back? I thought that people has proposed solutions for her to make use of her strenghts. |
2008-07-31, 04:08 | Link #1316 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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oh, and my own take on Hayate: Her "large pool" is a product of the Tome of the Night Sky i believe, so as it's artificial, and Belkan may not have perfected the use (hence why it went on rampage) i'd say that it cost her a lot of control.
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2008-07-31, 04:17 | Link #1317 | |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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Look, the solution to make Hayate flashier and de-shaft her is just under people's nose. She is a "bomber", she has large mana pool, she has Rein to assist her and Nanoha movie's director has expressed his wish to make the Nanoha's aerial mages fights less "STAND! AIM CHARGE SHOOT! *repeat*". From these elements, it is not so hard to turn Hayate into a Touhou shooter boss with hardcore barrage of bullets and deadly labyrinth of lasers of doom. Here she can just lol at the fool who tries to melee her. He is in range? No problem, she can flee with her magic. Either with her own version of Flash Move or by using a space folding spell. |
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2008-07-31, 04:25 | Link #1318 |
~ I Do ~
Author
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the XV-8A Spartan "00"
Age: 38
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Like you said sheba, it started from Comar announcing more ideas, which then lead to this.
@Arkeus: Most of our theories and data were mostly based on anime/soundstage material. And sometimes 7Arcs tries to give us a hand by releasing (sometimes weird) data as DVD extras. That example Keroko quoted was from the DVD. I won't comment on your revealed Nanoha theory in Negiha, cos I wonder where does that go, if not the OC thread? But for the Tome, Chrono mentioned that the Book of the Night Sky was altered some point in its history, resulting in the Book of Darkness. So Belka technology isn't at fault in this aspect. The method Sheba mentioned it just 1 part of my 2 pronged approach: spam and crowd control. Just like that, Hayate would become very viable at CQC, and at range she'd just blast you to bits. Why can't people accept that Hayate isn't Negi?!
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2008-07-31, 04:45 | Link #1319 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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But that's jsut my theory |
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