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Ithekro · 2010-10-14, 03:56

Destro seems to do the same damage as before...Recount isn't working for me (nor did I have it before anyway) so I can't be sure. Only that the damage numbers and crit numbers seem to be about the same as before. Maybe slightly lower in places, but with some soulfire procs from my imp that keep the numbers up I guess. Still not using a lot of Soul Shards in my rotation yet as Destro, though I suspect a Soul Burn Soulfire starter (after curse is up I suppose) might be good...though I guess immolate first after curse and bane would be better.

I have found that with my old damage curses not being curses I actually use things like Curse of Weakness again instead of elements (or I imagine if there are two or more warlocks that they'd use elelments, weakness and tounges when possible...and exhaustion maybe even) Used weakness on some hard hitting boss in heroic and that seemed to work fine.

Bane of Havoc seems nice...if there is a lot of adds anyway. Things that have to be killed or else you will wipe. Otherwise Doom seems viable for most boss fights.

Still not use to using Infernal and Doomguards again.

I like my new 22 slot bag (my former 32 slot Soulbag). Also the gold from the poor suckers that bought the last minute ammo I put up on the AH before the patch went live. Not all went, but enough to make it worthwhile since I had the mats for them anyway.

Also leveled First Aid for no reason other than people have been saying you'll need it later if the healers have to focus on the tanks and ignore the raid. However Soul Harvest is really good at healing between fights Something like 70% of my health back in one cast. Might not need First Aid at all (like I didn't need it at all before), but it got me some achievements.

Kyero Fox · 2010-10-14, 07:10

Ha, you guys see the mage new tier? the helm looks like Ragnarok's flame head

Clarste · 2010-10-14, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Destro seems to do the same damage as before...Recount isn't working for me (nor did I have it before anyway) so I can't be sure. Only that the damage numbers and crit numbers seem to be about the same as before. Maybe slightly lower in places, but with some soulfire procs from my imp that keep the numbers up I guess. Still not using a lot of Soul Shards in my rotation yet as Destro, though I suspect a Soul Burn Soulfire starter (after curse is up I suppose) might be good...though I guess immolate first after curse and bane would be better.

Damage and crit numbers are not and have never been a useful measure of damage. We call it Damage Per Second for a reason and that reason is that the rate at which those numbers pop up is equally important. If you cast more spells or the more powerful spells more often, dps goes up even if the size of the numbers doesn't.

Last Sinner · 2010-10-14, 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Ha, you guys see the mage new tier? the helm looks like Ragnarok's flame head

That whole set is a travesty...

Blizzard's take on the post-launch of 4.0.1.

Quote:

1) We think Fury, Arms, Feral cat and Retribution dps is too low and we will be buffing them.

2) We think mage dps is too high, especially Fire, and will be nerfing it.

3) We think Shadow priest dps is too high, but that's largely a result of Shadow Word: Death spam, which is tough on healers. We'll be fixing that.

4) We think Destro warlock dps is too high, but that's largely a result of Searing Pain spam, which is tough on tanks. We'll be fixing that.

5) As we suspected, PvP dps is just too high given that the health pools of Cataclysm haven't kicked in yet. While competitive PvP is over for the moment, we still want the environment to feel better so we will be buffing resilience. This change might be reverted at level 85.

There will probably be more changes after another night of raiding and BGs. Many of the bug fixes we have made today will affect dps as well. Stay tuned.

And Ithekro, you need to consider how hard Cata mobs will hurt you. The health you get back in Affliction is the perfect counter. As for a combo, throw on Bane of Agony, Corruption, Unstable Affliction, Soul Swap that target (and you had better have the glyph for it) and then exhale it on a 2nd target. You could aggro a pack of 6 accidentally yet handle them all with ease.

Tokkan · 2010-10-14, 08:10

Didn't Mr. Hat and Clogs already post a link to that quote?

Ithekro · 2010-10-14, 08:29

As I said, Recount isn't working, so I can't know what my actual dps is at this time. All I can guess is that the numbers looks the same and things seems to die in about the same amount of time as before. Besides the only Recount knowledge I have from before is from what other people say it was.

As for mobs hitting harder...I'm fine with that. That's why I run with a Voidwalker for questing...so I don't get hit as much. And I've always leveled Destro. I'm well aware it is inefficient and usually single target pulls, but it works for me, With the new mechanics, downtime seems to be almost nothing compared to TBC leveling were it was fight, drink, fight, drink, fight, eat, drink, fight, drink....or something like that. (I will note that I didn't discover the use of Life Tap until very late due to the easly leveling with it taking off way too much health for mana for my taste at the time. They were still playing with numbers in 2.2/2.3 when I joined)

Right now it is basically overkill Destro....Immolate, Chaos Bolt, Imp fireball, maybe a Conflagrate at the most before the mob is dead. Next mob, Immolate, Incinerate, imp fireball, Incinerate if needed, dead. Next mob CD done, Immolate, Chaos Bolt crit dead. It is pretty fast, and Going by the target dummies, right now it will take a rather long time to run out of mana even without Life Tap.

I'm perfectly sure you are correct in your assessment of the numbers and situation from Beta. I'll adjust when CATA comes and I'm facing mobs that are a threat again outside of currect Heroics and raids, since at present at least, Destro still works best in T10 gear. Come Mt. Hyjal....things will change...but not before December 7th.

Skyfall · 2010-10-14, 08:53

Recount is working just fine since yesterday, update it

I have been toying around with my crappy geared destro lock (PoS/FoS loot, 2 piece T9, 2 piece T10, bought today), and the damage has gone up a fair bit compared to pre-patch. In the absence of some imba DPSer so i have time to wind up, with that gear i can push up to 8.1k DPS on bosses in PoS/FoS (if doomguard is up, about 7k if he isn't), which is considerably higher than before. I am looking towards trying this out in a raid. A guildie in 264 gear is pulling 9k+ as affliction on same fights.

The main thing i am still getting used to is not forgetting to use Agony on bosses, as the mentality of "can't have both CoE and Agony up at same time" is quite ingrained. And i tend to forget about shadoflame on single targets ...

I am glad they nerfed pain to the ground though, that thing was insane threat wise, even my guildie pala in 264 gear was havving issues with that, would have been interesting from a lock of similar gear to him.

All in all, it is looking very good for destro locks. Can't wait to ninja some ICC gear and see what that does to my numbers.

Ithekro · 2010-10-14, 09:00

Hmm. figured out why Recount wasn't working....I missed while copy/pasting into the Interface (it went into one of the other files instead). Wonder if DBM will work since it was suppose to be the updated one as well

Skyfall · 2010-10-14, 09:08

As far as i know, DBM is bugged and doesn't work, at least as far as 5-mans go. Haven't tried testing in a raid environment yet, but would be mighty odd if it did work there and not the 5-mans. So far, it is just eating up addon space.

Clarste · 2010-10-14, 09:16

Yeah, DBM is broken (although I haven't checked since Tuesday).

Ithekro · 2010-10-14, 11:21

With Recount (on a target dummy in Stormwind), as Affliction spec: I'm getting around 6k dps, plus 1k from my Felhunter and 1k from my staff (Nibelung) generated guardian (not using infernal and doomguard at this point)

For my Destro spec...I'm pulling 8k dps with 1.5k from my imp and 1k from my staff generated guardian. (or perhaps it was the guardian that was 1.5..it procced a lot due to the rapid fire casting that you can get with Destro that you don't get with Affliction's dots for some reason.)

This is with only fel armor and pet buffs up. Sustained for the duration of one Curse of Elements cast.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2010-10-14, 21:52

DBM is busted, DXE works though... ORa2 has a beta build (v678) that works. Recount works, Skada works.. Pitbull works.. Bartender works.

Was getting about 6k or so on my dodgy gear mage, hadnt played in ages. Took me 10 minutes to remember that I had freeze on the elemental. One I worked it out though DPS picked up a bit heh.

Tempted to give my Warlock a go again. They sound interesting again.

On an amusing side note, last week I got Shadowmourne on my... tank. /flex Go go not having anyone else at the time to collect the shards.

Hooves · 2010-10-14, 22:18

Having to download all of patch 4.0.0 and 4.0.1 was just cruel

but finally got done with it only to notice that DBM doesnt work

now its gonna be a tough time in ICC...

Xacual · 2010-10-14, 22:29

Get Deus Vox Encounters (DXE), it's better than DBM anyway.

Kyero Fox · 2010-10-16, 18:22

Holy crap, the new Death Knight set looks wicked, Paladins helm is a bit... tall...

GDB · 2010-10-16, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Holy crap, the new Death Knight set looks wicked, Paladins helm is a bit... tall...

People still keep helm graphics on for Paladins? I'd have thought they'd learn better back in TBC.

Last Sinner · 2010-10-16, 21:38

DK, Shaman and Hunter sets look awesome.

Telmah · 2010-10-16, 23:45

The extra hit points have made a world of difference on my shaman, when trying to solo hard content. I managed to do Seth Halls (the raven mount boss is just up all the time now) and Magister's Terrace. It's my new set of dailies for mounts. Once all the bugs are dealt with, everything is starting to really come together for the cata release.

Kotohono · 2010-10-17, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

People still keep helm graphics on for Paladins? I'd have thought they'd learn better back in TBC.

After I hit 72 or so I never I had my head piece's model on

; were a few quested head pieces from the TBC I had liked the model for, that was about only time I ever had it on.

GDB · 2010-10-17, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konakaga

After I hit 72 or so I never I had my head piece's model on

; were a few quested head pieces from the TBC I had liked the model for, that was about only time I ever had it on.

Only one I can remember turning it back on for was the dungeon helm that was a recolor of T2 Judgment stuff.

I think what really made me turn it off for good was the ZA Helm (I think it was mail, but as a Holy Paladin it didn't matter). That tiki mask was so butt ugly.

2010-10-14, 03:56	Link #6061
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Destro seems to do the same damage as before...Recount isn't working for me (nor did I have it before anyway) so I can't be sure. Only that the damage numbers and crit numbers seem to be about the same as before. Maybe slightly lower in places, but with some soulfire procs from my imp that keep the numbers up I guess. Still not using a lot of Soul Shards in my rotation yet as Destro, though I suspect a Soul Burn Soulfire starter (after curse is up I suppose) might be good...though I guess immolate first after curse and bane would be better. I have found that with my old damage curses not being curses I actually use things like Curse of Weakness again instead of elements (or I imagine if there are two or more warlocks that they'd use elelments, weakness and tounges when possible...and exhaustion maybe even) Used weakness on some hard hitting boss in heroic and that seemed to work fine. Bane of Havoc seems nice...if there is a lot of adds anyway. Things that have to be killed or else you will wipe. Otherwise Doom seems viable for most boss fights. Still not use to using Infernal and Doomguards again. I like my new 22 slot bag (my former 32 slot Soulbag). Also the gold from the poor suckers that bought the last minute ammo I put up on the AH before the patch went live. Not all went, but enough to make it worthwhile since I had the mats for them anyway. Also leveled First Aid for no reason other than people have been saying you'll need it later if the healers have to focus on the tanks and ignore the raid. However Soul Harvest is really good at healing between fights Something like 70% of my health back in one cast. Might not need First Aid at all (like I didn't need it at all before), but it got me some achievements. __________________

2010-10-14, 07:10	Link #6062
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	Ha, you guys see the mage new tier? the helm looks like Ragnarok's flame head __________________

2010-10-14, 08:29	Link #6066
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	As I said, Recount isn't working, so I can't know what my actual dps is at this time. All I can guess is that the numbers looks the same and things seems to die in about the same amount of time as before. Besides the only Recount knowledge I have from before is from what other people say it was. As for mobs hitting harder...I'm fine with that. That's why I run with a Voidwalker for questing...so I don't get hit as much. And I've always leveled Destro. I'm well aware it is inefficient and usually single target pulls, but it works for me, With the new mechanics, downtime seems to be almost nothing compared to TBC leveling were it was fight, drink, fight, drink, fight, eat, drink, fight, drink....or something like that. (I will note that I didn't discover the use of Life Tap until very late due to the easly leveling with it taking off way too much health for mana for my taste at the time. They were still playing with numbers in 2.2/2.3 when I joined) Right now it is basically overkill Destro....Immolate, Chaos Bolt, Imp fireball, maybe a Conflagrate at the most before the mob is dead. Next mob, Immolate, Incinerate, imp fireball, Incinerate if needed, dead. Next mob CD done, Immolate, Chaos Bolt crit dead. It is pretty fast, and Going by the target dummies, right now it will take a rather long time to run out of mana even without Life Tap. I'm perfectly sure you are correct in your assessment of the numbers and situation from Beta. I'll adjust when CATA comes and I'm facing mobs that are a threat again outside of currect Heroics and raids, since at present at least, Destro still works best in T10 gear. Come Mt. Hyjal....things will change...but not before December 7th. __________________

2010-10-14, 08:53	Link #6067
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	Recount is working just fine since yesterday, update it I have been toying around with my crappy geared destro lock (PoS/FoS loot, 2 piece T9, 2 piece T10, bought today), and the damage has gone up a fair bit compared to pre-patch. In the absence of some imba DPSer so i have time to wind up, with that gear i can push up to 8.1k DPS on bosses in PoS/FoS (if doomguard is up, about 7k if he isn't), which is considerably higher than before. I am looking towards trying this out in a raid. A guildie in 264 gear is pulling 9k+ as affliction on same fights. The main thing i am still getting used to is not forgetting to use Agony on bosses, as the mentality of "can't have both CoE and Agony up at same time" is quite ingrained. And i tend to forget about shadoflame on single targets ... I am glad they nerfed pain to the ground though, that thing was insane threat wise, even my guildie pala in 264 gear was havving issues with that, would have been interesting from a lock of similar gear to him. All in all, it is looking very good for destro locks. Can't wait to ninja some ICC gear and see what that does to my numbers. __________________

2010-10-14, 09:00	Link #6068
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Hmm. figured out why Recount wasn't working....I missed while copy/pasting into the Interface (it went into one of the other files instead). Wonder if DBM will work since it was suppose to be the updated one as well __________________

2010-10-14, 08:10	Link #6065
Tokkan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Age: 35	Didn't Mr. Hat and Clogs already post a link to that quote?

2010-10-14, 09:08	Link #6069
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	As far as i know, DBM is bugged and doesn't work, at least as far as 5-mans go. Haven't tried testing in a raid environment yet, but would be mighty odd if it did work there and not the 5-mans. So far, it is just eating up addon space. __________________

2010-10-14, 09:16	Link #6070
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	Yeah, DBM is broken (although I haven't checked since Tuesday).

2010-10-14, 11:21	Link #6071
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	With Recount (on a target dummy in Stormwind), as Affliction spec: I'm getting around 6k dps, plus 1k from my Felhunter and 1k from my staff (Nibelung) generated guardian (not using infernal and doomguard at this point) For my Destro spec...I'm pulling 8k dps with 1.5k from my imp and 1k from my staff generated guardian. (or perhaps it was the guardian that was 1.5..it procced a lot due to the rapid fire casting that you can get with Destro that you don't get with Affliction's dots for some reason.) This is with only fel armor and pet buffs up. Sustained for the duration of one Curse of Elements cast. __________________

2010-10-14, 21:52	Link #6072
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	DBM is busted, DXE works though... ORa2 has a beta build (v678) that works. Recount works, Skada works.. Pitbull works.. Bartender works. Was getting about 6k or so on my dodgy gear mage, hadnt played in ages. Took me 10 minutes to remember that I had freeze on the elemental. One I worked it out though DPS picked up a bit heh. Tempted to give my Warlock a go again. They sound interesting again. On an amusing side note, last week I got Shadowmourne on my... tank. /flex Go go not having anyone else at the time to collect the shards. __________________

2010-10-14, 22:29	Link #6074
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Get Deus Vox Encounters (DXE), it's better than DBM anyway. __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy

2010-10-16, 18:22	Link #6075
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	Holy crap, the new Death Knight set looks wicked, Paladins helm is a bit... tall... __________________

2010-10-16, 21:38	Link #6077
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	DK, Shaman and Hunter sets look awesome. __________________

2010-10-16, 23:45	Link #6078
Telmah Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio, United States Age: 43	The extra hit points have made a world of difference on my shaman, when trying to solo hard content. I managed to do Seth Halls (the raven mount boss is just up all the time now) and Magister's Terrace. It's my new set of dailies for mounts. Once all the bugs are dealt with, everything is starting to really come together for the cata release.