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View Poll Results: K-On! - Episode 12 [FINALE] Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 80 | 41.03% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 52 | 26.67% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 21 | 10.77% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 22 | 11.28% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 7 | 3.59% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 4 | 2.05% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 0.51% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 4 | 2.05% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 3 | 1.54% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 0.51% | |
Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-06-19, 23:44 | Link #161 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I'm sorry, but I call bullshit on this. People who dislike the show are constantly pointing how the show fails at being all sorts of things it wasn't trying to be, so "therefore" the show sucks. Well, wait a minute. Sucks at what? Sucks at being the show that person wanted it to be? Sure, no problem. People have reasons they dislike something, obviously; no sweat. But the problem arises when people imply that it "fails at being a good show" simply because it wasn't what they wanted. I think everyone should bring on all the reasons why they felt the show wasn't enjoyable to them. But don't tell me "the show sucked", because that's making your personal feelings the show's fault. Tell me "I didn't enjoy it and here's why". If people would only state their opinions properly, we wouldn't have this sort of problem. The problems most people have with this show are not objective flaws, they're subjective preferences. Quote:
I'm not trying to say this show is perfect by any means, or that I enjoyed everything about it -- I didn't. And I'm not saying that I don't want to hear people's dissenting opinions -- sure I do, because maybe we have stuff in common! But this "defending the right to be a critic" stuff is the same every time it comes up, and there's always two sides to the story. And here I thought I wasn't going to get into this again... |
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2009-06-19, 23:45 | Link #162 | |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
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2009-06-19, 23:48 | Link #163 | |||
.: A bad doggy :.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Reckoner, Kaioshin, Meotwister, or even myself never came in here and said this show was crap (let alone 'rate' it). You also manage to put us down just by saying that what we're essentially doing is 'enjoying the torture' and 'spreading the joy of it'. Really? I mean, really? Quote:
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2009-06-19, 23:50 | Link #164 |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
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I think I'm starting to understand why I post less and less on these forums nowadays. Every other popular subforum is tending towards becoming not unlike the Code Geass ones, with the negative-players being so strident about their negativity that Zetsubou-sensei would have a field day....and with certain people happily being a negative-player here even when they've gotten their fair share of grief from negative-players from other subforums without even realizing the inherent hypocrisy.
But, you know. That's the Internet for you. That's ASuki for you. |
2009-06-19, 23:51 | Link #165 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Really that's what I'm saying -- simply by sharing those feelings and evaluating a series --- you're critiquing that series. 1) share my experiences and explain why impressions and feelings when watching the show. 2) A critic is trying to evaluate the work and describe, in objective terms, its qualities. I see those two items as exactly the same thing, one just may be a hair more formal than the other (but often isn't if you watch professional critics just decorate their emotional response). When someone asks me what I thought about a movie -- they're asking me for my critique. I've always thought of the forum as an analogue to a book club where people share a book, talk about what they thought of it, debate, and critique. If that is incorrect.... hmmmm.
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2009-06-19, 23:55 | Link #166 | |
.: A bad doggy :.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Frankly put, if a show really does suck *coughQueen'sBladecough* I'm pretty sure noone would sit through it until the end. There was just things we liked and things we didn't. I'm pretty sure no one just flat out remarked that the show sucked, and even with implications we acknowledge that the show is enjoyable and entertaining. I dropped the notion that the show was a musically centered series, but I still held firm to the fact that it could have been much more special (for the lack of a better word) had they possibly went with that angle in a better fashion. Some people felt misleaded, others noted it's just standard fare, but the extreme end of saying the show sucked, or worse, that's something I believe no one ended up declaring.
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2009-06-19, 23:57 | Link #167 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
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It's illogical to continue watching a show and posting about it if you dislike it. Completely illogical. |
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2009-06-19, 23:57 | Link #168 | |
.: A bad doggy :.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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WAN WAN~
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2009-06-20, 00:00 | Link #169 | |
.: A bad doggy :.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I said there's things I LIKED and things I DID NOT LIKE. Perhaps I saw them as flaws, but it was never enough to deter me from fully disliking the show and just casting it aside. In the end I liked Yui, but disliked Mio. The humor grew on me, but I wish there was more character development. It goes hand in hand. I'm capable of accepting things I don't like while still taking in things I enjoy. Why you think otherwise is beyond me though.
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2009-06-20, 00:04 | Link #170 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I also did not glean your 'enjoyment' from reading your posts. |
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2009-06-20, 00:06 | Link #171 | |
.: A bad doggy :.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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'Skewed towards the negative'.
Is that what you call an opinion? You say that like people can't even enjoy guilty pleasures (which this show was not, it was above that imo). Quote:
Sorry relentless / random mod. :P
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2009-06-20, 00:16 | Link #174 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Obviously if one dislikes a show, the show isn't being what they want it to be. By your logic, a person watching the show cannot decide if it is a failure of art as long as a show is popular. I call shenanigans! Look, from a business perspective, this show wasn't a failure by any stretch of the imagination. However, from an artistic perspective, I do think it is a failure. Others may disagree, and we can discuss different points regarding this. The only objective flaws that are possible to discuss are the technical aspects of a show. I do not think this merits huge talking ponts. So the animation wasn't 100%, or the story didn't exemplify good continuity, but as we get past these things (Some minor, some a little more major), it really all comes down to subjective preferences. Do professional critics in the movie industry go to a movie and say "Hey this movie has no technical flaws, so it is not bad!" No, of course these people are going to attack everything about it possible. Things like "grabbing the audience" or making someone "emotionally involved" are just a couple of things you hear in many movie reviews, but not everyone agrees because it is all subjective preference. K-ON! is a failure to me. To you it isn't. That is perfectly fine. That's why we even discuss in such forums. If we weren't interested in other people's opinions, we would not bother reading a forum to discuss a show. I don't expect you and others to conform to my opinion, I have much better things to do in life than trying to persuade everyone here... But don't expect me to say to myself that this show "is what it is" when it clearly protrayed itself in many different lights to me a viewer. Again, this comes down to subjective preference because people will say that it did or that it didn't.
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2009-06-20, 00:18 | Link #175 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Whenever this argument comes up, it seems to me that it always comes down to the very same thing. You have people who read arguments intellectually, and people who read arguments emotionally. That isn't to say one is "smart" and the other isn't; it's a personality issue. People who present intellectual arguments tend to be lighter on "tact" in favour of providing objective justifications for their arguments. People who present emotional perspectives/arguments tend to content themselves with just sharing their feelings without a huge need to find some objective cause for it (i.e. "liking something is reason enough"). When the two clash, we have this problem: Emotional people who don't like seeing the harmony disrupted by people who keep wanting to "prove they're right" (actually: demonstrate that their arguments have merit), and intellectual people who get all offended that their right to express a negative opinion is being threatened by, what they see as, fanboys and yes-men (actually: usually people who don't understand why you'd watch something you "seem" to dislike so much). Anyway, all that to say, neither personality type wants or expects the other to go away, they each want the other to be more like them in typical Pygmalion fashion. Of course I'm no exception in that regard, partly because stamping out these sorts of arguments is what I'm supposed to do (and I do realize that I've helped encourage it again this time -- I hope you'll forgive me for having my limits). Regardless, this is what I feel the issue is in this thread, but obviously discussing it more here is beyond the scope of the topic. But I hope at least this helps to explain, especially to those presenting the intellectual "objective" arguments, why they've provoked a reaction. I don't think it's at all because anyone wants to shut up disagreement; I think it's about the emotional way the arguments are received. And if we want to really have some measure of peace and harmony, even when topics are contentious, I think we at least need to understand where we're all coming from. I'll leave it at that so as to not derail the topic further, though I wouldn't mind continuing this broader discussion if another suitable venue was found. I do think this is an important issue. |
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2009-06-20, 00:21 | Link #176 | ||||||||
Banned
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I can't speak for the female population because I am of course a male, nor will I try to, but yes of course I have been a teenager and still am a kid at heart in more respects then I would normally be willing to admit. I haven't given up on having fun nor will I ever, but excluding episode 08 I didn't have as much fun as I could have with K-On. It's good that many people had the best of times with this show, but unfortunately I can't sidestep the fact that in the end it just didn't mean a whole lot to me. Now I have a question for some people. We've established and I think agreed upon, be it cynically or jubilantly, that: - This show was trying to be a straight up moe series - That it concerned itself little with character development - That it just wanted to be "light and fluffy." What if even in recognizing that as K-On's purpose a viewer still doesn't find it a satisfying show? What if a viewer doesn't find that these points about the shows nature warrant the serious reflection that Yui gave near the end of the episode and that it doesn't fit in with the whole light and fluffy nature of the rest of the series? What exactly did Yui expect the viewer to feel? What if the viewer didn't feel any sort of relation to her monologue nor did they feel it was well led up to to give it that sort of feel good vibe it was going for? Where does that put that viewer in a given user's eyes? Quote:
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Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-06-20 at 00:43. |
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2009-06-20, 00:28 | Link #177 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'll leave any other thoughts to PM or back channels Now pardon me while I review my Mio wallpapers and re-establish my "wa".
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2009-06-20, 00:44 | Link #178 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I can tell you what I personally felt in that monologue. It felt to me that what Yui was looking for in joining a club was not "to have something to do", but to "have a place to call home". She found purpose by finding people who loved her for who she really was, flaws and all. And throughout all the show's moe antics and silliness, it was really about finding acceptance. And, for me at least, that strikes an emotional chord. I felt like, by watching the show, it was trying to let us relive a little bit of those same feelings -- of fun, happiness, and belonging -- by proxy. That isn't to say that each turn will necessarily engage each person equally, but the last episode drove home to me that that sense of "enjoying being together" and "belonging" is what all the time spent together (for them as characters, and for us as viewers) added up to. It made me feel nostalgic and so left a good impression. I say all that even though I admitted before that I haven't "felt" every episode in this show... but this finale worked for me, and made the whole feel more complete (which is, I think, what a finale tends to do ). Anyway, there's an answer -- but I certainly don't think it's The right one. Of course I think it's possible; otherwise I wouldn't be advocating understanding the two different approaches. But I would suggest that when things escalate to the level they just did, we probably haven't quite found that balance yet on the whole. And of course reality isn't so black and white, but it tends to get more-so when things escalate, as we saw here. Anyway, that's all I'll say here about that. Last edited by relentlessflame; 2009-06-20 at 01:07. Reason: way to go, typo... |
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2009-06-20, 00:52 | Link #179 | ||
Karen
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The key word being some. There are shows where a drastic change in personality can work. However sometimes it can be nice when characters remain true to themselves. K-ON! would be a good example of the latter type. I wouldn't be surprised if that was supposed to be partially symbolic. Telling us that they're playing not just for the audience, but for each other as well. Of course, I'm probably reading too much into it.
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2009-06-20, 01:01 | Link #180 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I read it in the same way, but perhaps even more so. In the monologue leading up to that scene, Yui explained that this was their festival, and the whole episode was pointing to the fact that the most important thing, for all of them, was to play together. And when the song was over, it was as though they didn't want it to end -- it was sort of their moment together. It was also a sort of nod to the protagonist's feelings of being loved and accepted that they all looked at her one by one as they decided to do the encore. They were happy that she was there, and the encore was literally a nod to her. So I totally agree -- here too, what was most important wasn't the music or the performance, it was that they were all together and doing what they loved. If you're reading too much into it, then I guess I did too.
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