General Questions Thread

[yezhanquan]

One for Tolkien fans: We all know that he was a master of European languages, but were there any sources to suggest that he knew any Asian languages?

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

One for Tolkien fans: We all know that he was a master of European languages, but were there any sources to suggest that he knew any Asian languages?

None that I've come across before. What makes you think he knew any?

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

None that I've come across before. What makes you think he knew any?

Just asking. I'm a little curious. Also, it would be awesome to say, "Tolkien knew Mandarin."

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Just asking. I'm a little curious. Also, it would be awesome to say, "Tolkien knew Mandarin."

Central Asian, according to the biography, page 30.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Central Asian, according to the biography, page 30.

Eh... I think you've misread the passage about Central Asian languages. I believe this is the part you were referring to:

Tolkien also began to teach himself Finnish, which is a non-Indo-European language related to Hungarian and some of the languages of northern Siberia, as well as to Turkish and other Central Asian languages.

That's from the bottom of page 31, not page 30. It is widely known that Tolkien's Elvish was inspired by Finnish. While the language may be related to Central Asian languages, it doesn't mean that Tolkien actually learnt them.

That aside, the biography does present some humorous anecdotes, such as this one about Tolkien debating in Gothic:

Tolkien had first encountered Gothic when he was still at King Edward's... Finding himself in possession of a grammar of an obscure language with minimal vocabulary and no practical usefulness, he had the bright idea of selling it to Ronald Tolkien, the school's notorious language maven. Before long, Tolkien was delivering Debating Society orations in language and in character as a Gothic enjoy — impressive, but somewhat useless in terms of debate, since no one else could understand what he was saying.

Hmm... the above reminds me instantly of someone who likes to quote Latin in online debates... but that's neither here nor there.

Tolkien also observed something that I readily empathise with:

Part of Tolkien's problem in settling down to study Latin and Greek was that he was rather bored with those languages. The sensual pleasure he got from the sounds and shapes of words was no longer there for him.

For Tolkien, a beautiful word is something that must not only sound pleasant to the ear, but also look good in print. An apt example would be Kalevala, the name of Finnish national epic that inspired the creation of Quenya, the ancestral form of Elvish.

I've lost count of the number of times I've come across sci-fi and fantasy names/words that not just sound ugly but also look absolutely hideous in print. To me, it is instant proof that the author doesn't pay much attention to such aesthetic details, and that usually doesn't bode well for the rest of the book.

The written word is meant to be read aloud. When students complain about studying Shakespearean poetry, it's often because they haven't heard it performed on stage. It's only then that they'd begin to appreciate the rhyme, meter, consonance, assonance and alliteration that determined how certain words were used in certain ways.

[SaintessHeart]

Tolkien also observed something that I readily empathise with:

For Tolkien, a beautiful word is something that must not only sound pleasant to the ear, but also look good in print. An apt example would be Kalevala, the name of Finnish national epic that inspired the creation of Quenya, the ancestral form of Elvish.

I've lost count of the number of times I've come across sci-fi and fantasy names/words that not just sound ugly but also look absolutely hideous in print. To me, it is instant proof that the author doesn't pay much attention to such aesthetic details, and that usually doesn't bode well for the rest of the book.

The written word is meant to be read aloud. When students complain about studying Shakespearean poetry, it's often because they haven't heard it performed on stage. It's only then that they'd begin to appreciate the rhyme, meter, consonance, assonance and alliteration that determined how certain words were used in certain ways.

The thing about Asiatic and European languages are the highly different sentence structures. For example, in Mandarin, we use and treat particles as nothing more than vocabulary connectors (thus they are called empty words) while in English, they are used often as referents to perspectives (first, second, third).

Secondly when it comes to point and proof in a single sentence, there are certain placements for types of words, for example, in this case of adverbs (too, where the Chinese equivalent is "也")

English : He likes coffee too!*

Chinese : 他也喜欢咖啡!

Google translates it as 他也喜欢喝咖啡, but it isn't correct because the English version never specifically stated that he likes to "drink" coffee, simply that he likes coffee. Sure one can argue that coffee is solely for beverage purposes, but what if the overall subject is about the colour of stockings or favourite prankster dye for white suits?

* - "He also likes coffee" isn't correct. In this case of translation, the word "too" is better used than "also" because there isn't two different nouns (or subject issues) to compare together.

The third one is pretty vague and hard to explain, I tend to find that speech replies in Chinese often includes the idea/subject only, while in English it tends to be more complete including the subject and slight elaboration.

I haven't studied much into Quenya, but if we are to identify how sentence construction is usually done in different ways, it may yield suspicions that Tolkien may have included the precision style of Asian languages into the broad style of European languages.

[MeoTwister5]

To be fair, Mandarin isn't as strict with S-O-V sentence structures as say Japanese. At least in Mandarin you almost always, in my experience, have to mention the subject by convention, whereas in other language the subject can be dropped when the participants in the conversation know the subject in question.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I haven't studied much into Quenya, but if we are to identify how sentence construction is usually done in different ways, it may yield suspicions that Tolkien may have included the precision style of Asian languages into the broad style of European languages.

Quenya is a fictional language that Tolkien invented. The guy was eccentric that way. Among other things, he used it to study how the words of real languages evolved through the years. Along the way, he imagined the events in elvish "history" that caused those changes, and thus were born the nascent versions of Middle Earth mythology.

I highly doubt that Asiatic languages had any influence on Middle Earth languages, since most sources point to Scandinavia instead. That's just the way the dice rolled, and not a reflection on the aesthetic qualities of languages like Chinese. Tolkien never quite encountered them and even if he did, the culture behind the languages may have been so alien it would be difficult to say if he could have related with any of them.

If I recall correctly, both the men and elves of Middle Earth are descended from the Valar, and in their creation myth, the world was created from a song. That's food for thought, isn't it? Words created that were meant to be sung, and not just read. (It would be interesting to think about what Tolkien would have made of Arabic. If there's ever a language meant for reading aloud, and especially sung in verses, Arabic would be it.)

[Kusa-San]

Ok I was wondering something :

What happen when someone with a red square (instead of Green square), bad rep another member ? Does this bad rep become a good rep ? So seriously what happen ?

[JRendell]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

What happen when someone with a red square (instead of Green square), bad rep another member ? Does this bad rep become a good rep ? So seriously what happen ?

No, it's still bad rep.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

Ok I was wondering something :

What happen when someone with a red square (instead of Green square), bad rep another member ? Does this bad rep become a good rep ? So seriously what happen ?

Its still bad rep but the point value is pretty much non-existent. The rep level of the rep-giver affects how many points a rep is worth, positive or negative.
A pack of "red dotters" neg-repping you has very little affect on your score.

[Tiberium Wolf]

Arnold Schwarzenegger just left the office. Does anyone know what are his future plans? Back to screenplay?

[MeoTwister5]

Can he even still bench press half of what he could back in the day?

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

Arnold Schwarzenegger just left the office. Does anyone know what are his future plans? Back to screenplay?

From what I read, he intends to quit movies as well, though you'll never know if he decides to change his mind (my guess would be when he runs out of money).

[Seitsuki]

Wasn't he going to run for environmental minister or something like that?

[st_nick5]

Originally Posted by KaguraKurosaki

I'm not sure about posting this... But here i go!...if i download something that isn't licensed in my country and try to post a dude about it 'coz i have some problems with the episode/novel/game related to codec ,quality etc ...Am i the bad guy for piracy and the users can ignore me or not supporting??


Really silly but has happened....And not very sure how to react or to do...

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=866

It isn't licensed in the UK or America either, everyone gets it shipped from Japan. If you install a legal copy of the game, you may find that your problem actually goes away.

[Asuras]

Is there any requirement to joining a Group Membership?

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by Asuras

Is there any requirement to joining a Group Membership?

No, just click on the one you like best and select join group.

[Aqua Knight]

I will get a new notebook and will be able to play both Mass Effect and Dragon Age.
Which one to start with?
I am both keen on SW(i.e. space stuff) and elfs,dwarfs etc.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Murasaki

I will get a new notebook and will be able to play both Mass Effect and Dragon Age.
Which one to start with?
I am both keen on SW(i.e. space stuff) and elfs,dwarfs etc.

You're asking for a laptop yes?

If you want a powerful machine you're better off getting a custom built one since most branded stock machines aren't going to be as good as a standard desktop, unless of course you can afford Alienware. There are a bunch of good Taiwan-based companies who can do this for you.