Japan - Expectations and Anime

[Ewok]

Had an interesting conversation on a different forum about peoples expectations about Japan and then actually going and finding out for themselves what it is like. One of the biggest stereotypes has to be people who like anime/manga/jdrama/jpop, have various paraphernalia, and pretty much spend allot of their time on the topic and decide they want to go to Japan because of this interest.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I once watched anime too, but

What do you think about this? Do you think that wanting to go to Japan purely because you like anime etc? And more importantly, what do you think about the expectations that people have OF Japan from such things?

To get the ball rolling I'd like to point out that anime is aimed at the under-14 year old crowd, so when people in the late teens have a strong interest in anime it seems a little bit weird to me personally.

[Asai]

I've wanted to go to Japan for many years; long before I -really- got in to anime (though I used to watch various things as limited as availability was prior to the mid 90s.) and wanting to go there really has little to do with liking anime. I know things portrayed in anime are often greatly exaggerated or wildly inaccurate, however it does help the desire in many people, I think.

Personally I think people who only have interest in Japan because of anime are pretty silly, though there are some who develop an authentic love for the culture and country that anime simply triggered, and that's fine.

As for people who expect Japan to be like an episode of <insert favourite anime here> they're pretty much right tools. People need to have realistic expectations, and do thorough research before travelling, particularly to an insular nation like Japan where outsiders can have a rough time if they're not prepared. That's basically what it comes down to, I think.

Oh, and I started watching anime before I was a teenager, and still watch it even though I haven't been a teen for many years. While I personally have very broad tastes, I do understand that much of it is aimed at entertaining kids (mostly teen oriented in my experience.) but I do enjoy the occasional mature series. Ratings are kind of funny, though, so it's hard to put G, PG, M, R etc tags on them. While I don't watch hentai, I do have a number of otherwise R (here in AU, generally more M in Japan) rated series, for gore, violence, swearing and general adult themes. So saying it's all for young teens is a little off. ^^

[Ewok]

Originally Posted by Asai

So saying it's all for young teens is a little off. ^^

Anime on TV falls into two time slots - primetime 6-7pm (Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Conan are the biggies, the classics like Sazae-chan, Atashinchi, Chibi Maruko-chan also airing the same times)
or the latenight midnight-3am slots which is aimed at adults and is usually themed appropriately.

The ratings you mentioned sortof don't exist in Japan - the language is not outrageous in Japanese, the violence, gore and light adult themes are not so much of an issue. Many "anime" do not even air on TV but go straight to DVD.

though there are some who develop an authentic love for the culture and country that anime simply triggered, and that's fine.

Thats great, but when the "culture" is simply anime, then they haven't even scratched the surface and its a shallow like of Japan they possess.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Ewok

What do you think about this? Do you think that wanting to go to Japan purely because you like anime etc? And more importantly, what do you think about the expectations that people have OF Japan from such things?

Very good point. Yes I think it's stupid too.
I would also love to go to Japan, but not because of anime or manga, I would like to see for myself some of the cultural thingies, like temples, historical remnents of samurai etcetera. It's kind of cool thinking of how the county is all islands and such.

To be honest when I hear some people babling how they like to go to Japan because that is the land of anime bla bla bla, I wonder if they even think of half of that stuff or if they even know where it is

Originally Posted by Ewok

To get the ball rolling I'd like to point out that anime is aimed at the under-14 year old crowd, so when people in the late teens have a strong interest in anime it seems a little bit weird to me personally.

Yeah I know, I don't see it as big deal, but I do find it silly when people over XX really fall for the sissy stuff. I mean k'mon how etchii or emotional can you be.

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To be honest I find things like this as silly as when people are saying the are tring to make a manga and the most important thing isn't that they can't draw shit and most likely haven't even attemted writing stuff, nooo~ What's important is that it needs to get the name manga and they the name mangakan like that's going to make it soo much better.
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Originally Posted by Ewok

Anime on TV falls into two time slots - primetime 6-7pm (Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Conan are the biggies, the classics like Sazae-chan, Atashinchi, Chibi Maruko-chan also airing the same times)
or the latenight midnight-3am slots which is aimed at adults and is usually themed appropriately.

I personally don't care if it was made for adults or kindergardners. If I consider it's serious or intresting and isn't just some echii or emo fest then I'll give it a go. And if it suits my tastes then I'll probably watch it to the end.

[Vexx]

I find it interesting the OP thinks anime is aimed at the below-14 crowd with shows like Nana, Shuffle! (R-15), Death Note, Higurashi, Planetes, Hataraki Man, ad nauseum. So I'll ignore that ...

I've enjoyed Japanese culture for nearly 30 years (having married into a japanese-american family). I actually wasn't even interested in anime until a few years ago and only then after discovering it included stories that weren't just about explosions, boobs, and loud-mouthed posturing braggarts. The "romance comedies" first caught my eye, then the other comedies and drama. I suppose it helped that I'm a fan of American classic cartoons. Sad to say, I'll take anime almost anytime over the crap passing for entertainment on local networks.

I find all aspects of japanese culture interesting, both the good and the bad simply because it is interesting to see how other societies handle or don't handle things via their religions, social expectations, etiquette, etc. I find the language interesting (currently learning it) because language teaches you about the people and what they find important (as it did when I learned German and Russian, though I've forgotten most of the Russian).

My wife and I plan to visit Japan and stay a while sometime ... but as much because we enjoy traveling and exploring what the locals do and how they live no matter where we go (Canada, Europe, etc). She would kind of like to visit where her grandparents came from.

Despite anime being a really shallow way of learning about Japan, I'm always amazed at people who watch anime and yet fail to pick up any clues about the society that produces them. Yeah, much of anime is either unrealistic, contrived, or nostalgic (things that no longer are) ... but there are cultural clues.. just like American or European entertainment contain clues about their societies.

[Ewok]

Originally Posted by Cats

Very good point. Yes I think it's stupid too.
I would also love to go to Japan, but not because of anime or manga, I would like to see for myself some of the cultural thingies, like temples, historical remnents of samurai etcetera. It's kind of cool thinking of how the county is all islands and such.

Kyoto would blow your mind Before you go, read up on Buddhism (specifically the various "gods", their meanings, and the basics like Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path) which will help makes thing "make sense". I didn't until afterwards and it makes it more facinating

I personally don't care if it was made for adults or kindergardners. If I consider it's serious or intresting and isn't just some echii or emo fest then I'll give it a go. And if it suits my tastes then I'll probably watch it to the end.

Similar to me really, I'll watch anime, but at the same time I remember that its aimed at people much younger than me, and that its just entertainment and not to be taken seriously.

[Vexx]

The two main religions in Japan are Shinto and Buddhism. To be rudely brief, Shinto is the one with the "7 million gods" (kami) and shrines galore as well as the source of many festivals (see Totoro or Kamichu! for rough brushups). Buddhism is the one with the temples and is more focused on philosophy (as well as the major doctrine milestones of birth, marriage, death). Japan has taken buddhism and integrated it with Shinto (and it actually works quite well as a view of the world) despite some nasty manipulation of the two during particular historical periods.

You can find some more information at tolerance.org for those and other religions, though I don't think they've included the Flying Spaghetti Monster yet.

[Ewok]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I find it interesting the OP thinks anime is aimed at the below-14 crowd with shows like Nana, Shuffle! (R-15), Death Note, Higurashi, Planetes, Hataraki Man, ad nauseum. So I'll ignore that ...

Nana was an extremely popular manga, mainly among 14-15yr old girls. I should remember, because my friends in Junior High were reading it when I was in high school back 5 years ago when it came out.

Shuffle airs past midnight on regional TV - http://www.shuffle-tv.com/memories/timeschedule/
Its obviously not aimed at teens, but adults.

Death note is popular among the younger crowd as an anime, but the live action movie has had allot of success among young adults like myself.

I don't know Higurashi, but a look at the offical page and its another adult anime - http://deen.co.jp/eventinfo/

Never seen Hatarakiman (its on too late), but another adult aimed anime -
http://www.hataraki-anime.com

Etc, etal. Anime falls into different categories - almost all anime are manga adaptions, some extremely long running manga turn into extremely long running anime (many of which the foreign anime-watching community know nothing about because they never get subbed), and a majority are short 12 or 24 episode one offs.

Since anime comes from manga, if you look at manga it falls into 3 groups. Shonen, Aonen, and adult. So then you get the same with the anime - young peoples anime (Naruto, Bleach, etc), teenage anime (Love Hina, Full Metal Panic, Chobits would be good examples), and more adult anime (Hatarakiman sounds about right from what I read, Higurashi seems to be so too).

You just need to turn up to a couple of anime events, walk around the stores, or sit in a book store and see who is buying what to see what the fan base is to understand this.

I've enjoyed Japanese culture for nearly 30 years (having married into a japanese-american family). I actually wasn't even interested in anime until a few years ago and only then after discovering it included stories that weren't just about explosions, boobs, and loud-mouthed posturing braggarts. The "romance comedies" first caught my eye, then the other comedies and drama. I suppose it helped that I'm a fan of American classic cartoons. Sad to say, I'll take anime almost anytime over the crap passing for entertainment on local networks.

I don't watch allot of TV for the same reason, only the odd drama that my partner wants to watch, but the "crap passing for entertainment" generally revolves around explosions, boobs, loud-mouthed posturing braggarts, violence and humiliation.

Despite anime being a really shallow way of learning about Japan, I'm always amazed at people who watch anime and yet fail to pick up any clues about the society that produces them. Yeah, much of anime is either unrealistic, contrived, or nostalgic (things that no longer are) ... but there are cultural clues.. just like American or European entertainment contain clues about their societies.

Very much agree, there are allot of subtleties drawn into anime that even I miss out on, and usually will spend allot of time talking about it with my partner. Unfortunately the best anime for learning Japanese are the ones that don't make it onto the internet - the real staples like Sazae-chan (full of culture and language), Kureyon Shinchan (lots of jokes and family life), Atashinchi (similar to kureyonshinchan), Doraemon (its just so big in Japan), etc.

Just look at this, its all the anime that shows on free to air TV, not even half of that is recorded and subbed to you guys.
http://tv.yahoo.co.jp/bin/search?c=0...&area=tokyo&p=

Admittedly some of that is Miffy, Disney, etc, but its still all anime. Click on the BS/CS to see the cable and satellite TV listings, there's even more!

[Ewok]

I know my Shinto and Buddhism, but I was refering to places like Sanjusangendo (which has 1001 statues of Kannon, the goddess of mercy), Jingo-ji and To-ji have Kokuzo (Buddhist God of Wisdom, Memory, Craftspeople, Artisans), Bishamonten (one of the 4 Buddhist Gods of war and warriors) is in Kurama-dera. Theres many, many more about too.

[Vexx]

ahhhhhh, I bet the adult audience for Nana (anime & live action) are those same girls now grown into women years later there is some speculation that anime will become more acceptable to adults as the ones raised on it move into "grownup" life (rather like here in the States).

Most of what I learned about Buddhism initially was the Zen school aspects, the sayings of the Buddha himself, and the Tibetan formulation. Japanese Buddhism seems to have blended Shinto and Buddhism until it is hard to tell what came from what --- which I suppose makes it uniquely japanese.

As far as the anime itself goes, watching the "teen" anime helps me with my japanese comprehension (as rude as the dialog is) and I can appreciate the humor (especially in shows like Suzumiya or Azumanga). Shows aimed for the college set (Honey&Clover or Hataraki Man) are entertaining but I have more trouble following their dialog without subs for now.

[kitto-chan]

From experience i am speaking. Japanese are very reserve towards outsider. Outwardly if you are a foreigner, they don't mock you. Especially if you are an american. They will however be lavaishing you, simply because they wish to be americanized. I spend 2 years in Yokosuka, Japan. And man the things i have seen, although i never seen japanese businessman p*ssing in the alley in anime, they do however p*ss on the street right outside the bar. Students do have to wear uniforms. And my I luv the short summer skirts. The shopping centre is just like in the anime. And no i have never seen anyone road race in the kanto area.

I don't know much about the student lives, or if they really greet each other when get go home and what not. I can tell you don't never call a tanned Japanese man a Filapino. Trust me on that one. Also in the northern part of Kanto, dunno the city, in the winter, they hold a celebration for the penis. Yes boys and ghouls "A Penis" Men dress in a white grown of some sort, carrying a 6ft wooden penis (is this a double pun) parading down main street.

Some great night spot in Toyko, is Roppongi, Ebisu, and an american alley call the hooch. If you wondering how I would know these details, I'll tell you was stationed in Japan for 3 yrs with the USN.

My first exposure to Japan unlike most of you is not thru anime but a sudden, "OH MY GOD, WHERE AM I GOING????!!!!"

[CarpeDiem]

Since I grew up in and now near a city called San Francisco with an enormous Asian population (I'm even a part of it with my Chinese ethnicity), I have been immersed with many parts of Asian culture throughout my entire life. Despite my Asian heritage, I am still raised as an American, so parts of Asia still fascinate me. Naturally, this includes Japan. True, I do like anime/manga/jdrama/jpop, but they aren't the main reasons why I would like the visit Japan, though they are a very nice bonus.

There are two things that really interest me about Japan: the language and the history. The Japanese language is a really intriguing one. I've self-studied more seriously in the past year, and I've come to notice that it is (naturally) completely different from English. But what's also interesting about that is that even though it's completely different from English, which I take for granted everyday, it makes sense in its own way.

Now, Japanese civilization has developed quite differently from other countries around the world. For most of their history, they willingly isolated themselves from most of the outside world (except for China, of course). So, absolutely, the Japanese culture that developed as a result of this is another very interesting aspect.

Not to mention that I like to travel. That's another reason for wanting to go to Japan, among other places.

[mantidor]

I grew up with all those NHK educational programs (science for children, 1,2,3 mathematics, etc, etc, no idea of the names on japanese or if they ever were broadcasted in other countries besides Colombia) so my fondness of Japan began at early age, but I also grew up with Maya the Bee, hutch the honey bee, known here as jose miel, and Saint Seiya, so I can't say anime didn't had an influence. But yeah, I did have only a very shallow knowledge of Japan until I got more involved with anime and manga recently.

[Ewok]

Originally Posted by kitto-chan

From experience i am speaking. Japanese are very reserve towards outsider. Outwardly if you are a foreigner, they don't mock you. Especially if you are an american. They will however be lavaishing you, simply because they wish to be americanized.

I get mocked by little children and my friends You wouldn't mock and abuse a stranger, but you do people you know. No different. And I wouldn't say they want to be "americanized".

Also in the northern part of Kanto, dunno the city, in the winter, they hold a celebration for the penis. Yes boys and ghouls "A Penis" Men dress in a white grown of some sort, carrying a 6ft wooden penis (is this a double pun) parading down main street.

The famous hounen-matsuri? Its in Nagoya I think... not Kanto.

Some great night spot in Toyko, is Roppongi, Ebisu, and an american alley call the hooch. If you wondering how I would know these details, I'll tell you was stationed in Japan for 3 yrs with the USN.

That would be a unique view of Japan, living on an American base in a foreign country would be like living 2 lives

[harukamae]

This is an interesting topic as always, but can get shallow.

As for the anime rating thing, I don't really care. At the end of the day, it's all cartoons we're watching, so I just watch whatever interests me with a grain of salt.

I got into Japan through a history teacher first, then Sailor Moon and the Mixx magazine hit and I was hooked on anime. I was fortunate to be involved in two exchange programs - one for two weeks in high school, and another for a year and a half in college. I think history and anime pushed me to take Japanese language, learning Japanese pushed me to do those exchanges and they were the most amazing experiences of my life.

I'm an avid supporter of study abroad, whether it's to Japan or Finland or wherever your interest is and even if someone is detached enough to have odd expectations that they garnered from anime, they'll learn better as soon as they hit Narita or Kansai Airport! So no, I don't think it's bad at all. I think it may be hard, especially people who have some rosey image of Japan are gonna get a rude awakening. But, going overseas, especially living abroad, takes you out of your comfort zone and forces you to grow up and learn to deal with so much.

So if one's passionate about Japan, do it! You may be a little disillusioned and cynical if your expectations were set too high, but you'll learn and grow from the experience! ^^

[Shay]

What?! So your telling me there are no ninjas battling in the streets, no giant robots destroying Tokyo's skyscrapers???

Screw that then, I'm not going!

[aahhsin]

Originally Posted by Shay

What!? So your telling me there are no ninjas battling in the streets, no giant robots destroying Tokyo's skyscrapers???

Screw that then, I'm not going!

I KNow~!!?!?! WTF!?!? Japan is a load of nothing than!!!! I wanted to see monsters raping girls on subways while dirty old men look on and join in the action1!!! I won't pay 2000 dollars to fly halfway across the world, battle jetlag, and not understand a single word those people speak if I can't get to see 10 year old girls getting raped on subways by monsters with members the size of my legs while old men look on!!!?!?!

UNTHINKABLE!!!!!

And now we know Shay is a crazy Brit bastard.

[darkcloud]

Unfortunately the best anime for learning Japanese are the ones that don't make it onto the internet - the real staples like Sazae-chan (full of culture and language), Kureyon Shinchan (lots of jokes and family life), Atashinchi (similar to kureyonshinchan), Doraemon (its just so big in Japan), etc.

Shinchan and Doraemon at the very least do make it onto the internet.... :-/



As for the rest of the thread, I find it even more fascinating then Japanese culture, the love of the internet in questioning why people want to travel to Japan... Not England (yay the queen the queen yays), not various other european countries (ooohhh it's so romantiqué), not the US (the US fucking rocks!), not random other places in Asia (I can't think of an example v.v;; just Japan.. It's like it's a crime to want to go to Japan for petty reasons.... :-/

Seriously, if someone wants to go to Japan because they watched anime and have a "distorted view of the country" then whats the problem with that? People do the same with other countries and no one complains so what gives?

It's like the internet on one side holds the country in such high regard that you have to have the most amazing knowledge of the country to even gain entry whilst the other half have the complete opposite view wondering wtf someone would want to go to the country "I mean aren't they all racist or something?"

Seriously it's really stupid..... The thread about travelling to Japan is a great example where people seemingly post just to try to stop people from going. :-/


Anyway, I got into Japan from games, anime, music, drama, whatever else you can think of... You know media...... Then I found out about other stuff...... Then when I met my girlfriend I found out other stuff I never knew of.. Then I went to Japan found out some other cool stuff.... Went to loads of anime shops, arcades, had fun, went home and now I miss the country.... I want cheap Japanese food again. ; ;

[Red Herring]

I hear you man. I read about people all the time who go to Japan because they love anime but dont bother to learn anything else about the culture. Some have good experiences and other come back all bitter and stuff. Its like if you have a bad experience its your own damn fool fault you cant act like Japanese culture is particularly sinister just because you thought you knew your sh1t but you really didnt.

I read and learn as much about Japan as I can. I dont shy away from the "negatives" either, mainly because the 'bad' that I read doesn't phase me unlike other foreigners who act like there is something wrong with Japan just because something is different. I pretty much love the whole Japanese thang warts and all. It isnt like American culture is perfect...shoot I experience that every day and Im not above calling out complete bullsh1t when I see it. We're all f*cked cause we're all human basically...

[Kyuusai]

I'm a bit different from the average American anime fan. Although I am a white boy, I was raised with a Japanese step-mother, a Japanese aunt, and their Japanese friends.

They were NOT interested in teaching me the language, especially since they liked having a way to talk without the rest of us understanding, but I got an interesting cultural perspective that way, including being a gaijin in my own home and experiencing what I like to call "Asian Mother Syndrome". I was introduced to a lot of Japanese programming this way. For years one of my most prized possessions was a VHS tape with copies of a broadcast marathon of Miyazaki films. Still, to me the media was only one part of the culture that I enjoyed studying due to my connection to it.

(A side note: One of my favorite nerd memories is excitedly recognizing Yokoyama Chisa one one of my little sister's educational puppet show videos. I knew her from Tenchi Muyo. )

It's only natural to take an interest in a culture because you enjoy something that came out of it, but some of these kids have such a shallow study of it that it honestly disturbs me. I'm no expert, but I don't consider myself to be, either. Some of these kids DO, and it makes them look like idiots. Now, for more mainstream hobbies and interests, idiots are merely overlooked, but for niche interests, idiots appear to speak on behalf of every one. I am severely embarrassed when these sorts actually interact with Japanese people. Doubly embarrassed, really, because I am ashamed on behalf of America and share the shock that the poor Japanese people who have to put up with them feel.

I think part of the backwardsness we see today is that we see more media FROM the culture than we do see ABOUT the culture. That wasn't the case twenty years ago. Then it was nerdishly-hip to be interested in Japanese culture, not Japanese PRODUCTS.

As for anime being aimed at children... Well, yeah, most of it is. Not all of it. Ewok, you yourself said that there is anime aimed toward adults, so I don't see how it can all be grouped as being "aimed at the under-14 year old crowd". Heck, even many prominent animation studios say that their demographics include adult men. The issue is the same as it is in America: In the public eye, animation is seen as a genre instead of a medium. Strangely, this remains true despite successful cross-demographic programs (for example, Sazae-san in Japan and The Simpsons in the US).