2004-10-25, 07:17 | Link #41 | |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
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That show seems interesting IMO and since The Triad is subbing it, it's sure is gonna be pretty interesting to watch it Now got to find a way to download it... ^_^
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2004-10-25, 20:02 | Link #42 | |
-Trichy-
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2004-10-26, 05:58 | Link #43 |
Vampie Walrus. Big fangs
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I'll offer up this video if it works.
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/dragnfly/Nanoha-test.avi for people who can't download the anime for some reason. Now, this was thrown together and works fine on my system. It hasn't been tested on others. I'm a huge Nanoha fan now but looking around on message boards I see quite a few posts are downright hilarious. Like this extract: "**** you stupid CCS bastard. Nanoha could beat her bloody before her dumb loli ass would know what's going on." followed by "Are you some sort of **** stupid **** wanker? Sakura would ram that ferret through Nahoha's empty brain and drink her blood!" Honestly, I didn't expect to see stuff like this. I'm not that big of a Mahou Shoujo fan but there have been some I've liked (Pretty Sammy for one) and I find Nanoha is just doing everything better than all the others I've watched. And as for the transformation scene, I guess I just didn't notice her nakedness. I thought the staff forming and such was pretty cool though. Pretty much every transformation scene I can think of off the top of my head has nudity or simulated nudity though. Just shrug it off. It's not like it's there to turn you on. |
2004-10-26, 07:24 | Link #44 |
i am the mist
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Japan
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No way. They're like comparing apples to oranges. Both are delicious but it really depends on the 'fetish' of the person.
I may be biased, but CCS is miles better. I think they need to extend Nanoha to more than 13 episodes. Watching the first episode and seeing the extremely detailed character introductions to Nanoha, her family and friends, all those descriptions will go to waste. Those kinds of long descriptions are supposed to be for long series.
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2004-10-26, 14:02 | Link #45 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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The second cut shown is a CG background (for the power lines) with a hand-drawn, 24 FPS (very rare in tv anime) run cycle on Nanoha (looks about 16 frames that repeat in the cycle, so it wouldn't have taken much time at least) that has been composited in, given a little bit of "bob" to match the leg motion, and a small blur added to give a sense of her moving in and out of the focus. The 24 FPS animation looks like it was all done by a key animator, so perhaps this is also the person that did the meticulously animated "Can I keep the ferret, Mom and Dad?" sequence as it has a lot of the same kind of detailed secondary motion in it. The animation style consistency issues seem to only have been in episode 1 so far though (I've watched through 4 of the raws). The animation seems pretty standard TV animation after this point for the most part. In some ways I kinda miss the experimental stuff, it was very good, but also a little distracting from the show itself. Maybe it will show up more later though...? |
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2004-10-26, 22:37 | Link #46 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-10-26, 23:16 | Link #47 | |
Aim High, Fall Short
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2004-10-27, 06:43 | Link #48 |
Vampie Walrus. Big fangs
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Ayu-Ayu, that's pretty good work. I too looked over the video carefully (although I wish I had a pure source. The video is only exported at 24fps because that's what the source video was at)
That's an intelligent view, Rothgar. It's against my better judgement but I'll watch through the episodes I have (raws of this I've noticed are relatively difficult to find in comparisson) and specifically look for.... Nanoha.... *ulp* fanservice... Christ I can't believe I just said that. Well, in the good news I managed to get a bunch of people at work addicted to the music |
2004-10-28, 09:05 | Link #49 | |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
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The transformation is just like you could see it in Sailor Moon, etc. People who say that this is disturbing fanservice obviously didn't watch much Mahou Shoujo animes. This is just a basic transformation which might be taken badly if you are really very sensitive, but it's not like it were a show like Rizelmine :P Of course, I just watched one episode, it could change, but I don't think it is going to be some sort of ecchi show :P
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2004-10-28, 11:10 | Link #51 | |
Translator
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2004-10-28, 13:29 | Link #52 |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Thanks, Daft27, Dragnfly. I like to look for stuff like that in shows. It really amazes me what kind of subtle stuff folks are doing in post production on anime these days now that everything's digital instead of cel.
Regarding the ecchi factor, it is kind of interesting that people have less issue with standard direct-to-nude style henshin sequences, but by adding undergarments into the equation it suddenly becomes indecent, a virtual striptease (along the lines Go Nagai originally created the Honey "Flash" for in the first place, ironically). Thany makes a good point; while I think it is clear that the loli fanservice is added in all too arbitrarily (much like the stuff back in the Creamy Mami days with the long nude bath scenes and panchira*), it's an added and unneccessary gimick that has nothing to do with what the show's actually about. Were this an ecchi-oriented series, we'd probably get Aika-style upskirt detailed panchira in every other action shot...bleh. As for it changing or getting worse, well the story gets more interesting, the henshin stays the same, and there is one brief pajama-changing scene in ep 3 that will probably get attributed as more loli voyeurism (but somewhat amusing at Yuno's expense). Other than that, nothing more ecchi than that in the first 4 episodes. (*panty flashes) |
2004-10-28, 14:44 | Link #53 | |
Triad's Friendly Editor
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 43
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If someone really wants to be offended, they will search long and hard to stuff to be offended over...whether or not it actually exists in the show intentionally. ;) |
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2004-10-28, 17:40 | Link #55 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-10-28, 18:51 | Link #56 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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The thing was, anime wasn't as diverse in the earlier 80's, and otaku choices of stuff to watch was more limited in the range of material. The staff (mostly male) on shows like Mami and later Emi took advantage of both the more permissive views then toward bath-time nudity and panchira (before a wave of PTA-related complaints) to cater to their partial male, loli, otaku audience...Emi actually made something of a production out of the panchira, IIRC. It was actually the early 80's that encouraged what was perhaps some of the first loli-themed fan-made parodies of a lot of the magical girl stuff. Heck even Daicon III features a loli-patterned schoolgirl heroine ("upgraded" in Daicon IV to Sadamoto's famous bunny girl). And actually there was enough loli-themed "service" in those old shows to get some PTA-related attention (and that's WHY you don't see that kind of stuff in kid's shows as much these days, with a few exceptions--Gakkou no Kaidan's episodic panchira--harassment?--come to mind there). Anyway, I agree on your other points. I wonder on the ero-game thing though; Nanoha is a spin off of the non-ecchi Triangle Hearts OVA (as opposed to the earlier ecchi one)...was the game that corresponded to that more recent OVA ero though? I don't know much about the origins beyond the OVA stuff. Did Nanoha or her siblings ever appear in an H title? One other point, and that is the Japanese (aside from a conservative minority) do not see sexuality itself with quite the same taboos and stigma as puritanical westerners (cough, Americans, cough) do...for example, Sailor Moon creator Naoko Takeuchi's first complaint upon seeing the US production was that "they removed much of the sexual imagery", knowing full well her target demographic was pre- and early adolescent girls... |
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2004-10-28, 19:47 | Link #57 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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That was an interesting read about Mami, tho. I didn't know PTAs were so vigilant back then. |
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2004-10-29, 00:13 | Link #58 | |
Doremi-fansubs founder
Fansubber
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Of course, the best anime ever, and prolly the only mahou shojo i'll ever see, is Ojamajo doremi with it's 200+ episodes of awesomeness |
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2004-10-29, 01:19 | Link #59 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Yeah, actually Go Nagai ran REALLY afoul with them in the late 70's (he even made them into the ultimate villians in Harenchi Gakuen, IIRC), too, and actually had his work banned from TV for quite some time due to "violent and indecent material" (that's why his stuff dried up in animation until the Devilman OVA). @_@ I don't think Mami in itself was seen as a real problem, btw, it's more that it just aired before the bout of stuff that did get attention during the time and reflects what was acceptible to show before that point. It comes and goes...there was waves of censorship and loosening of censorship through the 90's too (TV Tokyo being the most guilty after the Pokemon incident of abusing control over the shows and a number of creators protested). |
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2004-10-29, 07:20 | Link #60 |
Vampie Walrus. Big fangs
Join Date: Oct 2004
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And again Aya impresses. It's good to see there are older otaku here too.
I remember when my girlfriend and I were watching Iczillion (not exactly old-old but it was down there) and she was totally agast at the transformation scenes. I explained that kind of thing was very common in anime and only weirdos would freezeframe (on jumpy VHS) to get some joy out of it. She was a huge sailor moon fan and hadn't made it up to the final episodes yet but when she did she was pretty cool with it. I can't help but think it might have been cushioned by the earlier viewings of transformation scenes. Oh, and I did review a few episodes of Nanoha with some of my friends. I'll just assign each a number and report their opinions. 1- 22 years old, female otaku for +\- 5 yrs. Thought it was great. Didn't seem to notice the fanservice 2-19 yrs old, male otaku for +\- 10 yrs. Thought it was great. didn't seem to notice the fan service 3-24 yrs old, male otaku for +\- 15 yrs. Thought it was great. Made it clear the loli stuff freaked him out 4-24 yrs old, male otaku for +\- 7 yrs. Thought it was great. Looked away when the panties came off and compalined about it for a long time. 5-25 yrs old, male otaku for +/- 15 yrs. Myself. Love the show. I noticed but didn't think anything of it. Two friends were omitted because they collect Gunslinger Girl doujin and such anyway. Although I think we broke #4 somehow as he started obsessing a bit too much on "how unrealistic it is for a 9-year-old to be built like that". We did however learn that a lot of various groups can like Nanoha So so far my experiment is giving far from workable results |
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