To Aru Majutsu no Index - Character Discussion - Kamijo Touma

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX

please, do not forget to Touma vs Sozty or Thor in that he broke both arms of the god of lightning, or Bird, or Tsuchimikado, or Aureullus, etc.

Maybe I should've said sometimes. Kamijou-.san is such an underdog in underestimate him sometimes.

Also, don't forget how how he fought Marian entirely on his own. Still one of my favorite fights.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Goldzero

i know that just hes finishing move. i was referring to the fight as a whole.

Dniv, the reason why most of the people that hate touma, accuses him of being a generic goody two shoe character without much explanation as to why they think so is because they don't try to understand his character. they just judge from first glance and could care less to understand hes character. i seen a few haters of him who actually brought up good reasons as to why they hate him but even so they still acknowledge him as a good character despite those reasons. he is just not to their taste. i have noting against hes haters but allot if not most seriously bring up hilariously half assed reasons without clear explanations and as you continue to read their complains you just noticed many of them dislike him just because he isn't overpowered with a spectacular ability and dislike hes speeches because they think it some sort of friendship idealistic crap without even bother to pay attention to it at all or just misunderstood it and thinking hes trying to befriend hes enemies when he is certainly not. many just want to see Accelerator go instant win on hes enemies instead of reading about a character who comes up with creative tactics on hes opponents like touma kamijou or hamazura(though all three of them have some serious plot armor issue but it doesn't bug me at all) not saying Accelerator does that but from what i read, plenty of his fans just want to see heavy explosions and massive murder. but don't get me wrong, accelerator is indeed my 3rd favorite fiction character because i love to read about hes depth, character Development, and of course hes past(though we never got full into detail with that let alone touma's) as well as hes interesting character interactions. i think i find hes interactions more fun then touma. each of the characters in this series has their own way of making the story interesting but personally kamijou and Accelerator are my top favorite in the series. all in all there are pretty good reasons to dislike kamijou such as hes stubbornness to never kill can be considered one and a few others as well. but just so many terrible complains, just so hard to read them all. i even seen a few accusing him of being similar to naruto.

Actually, he is slightly similar to Naruto. Though NT 9 proves he isn't. Up until then there were some small similarities to him though (ones that I liked).

By hater, I thought you meant people who don't like his character i.e. think it's written badly. If you just mean people who don't like his personality, that's different. I've also seen some people who don't like Touma's personality, but who have good reasons for feeling that way (they're idealistically opposite to how Touma would view things; utilitarian vs. individualistic).

I personally like Touma, because he represents the pinnacle of how I feel a hero character should try to be like: to care about individuals and not just "general stuff" out there.

A large percentage of mathy/engineering people are sadly likely going to feel that Touma's perspective is annoying, because he doesn't look at the big picture that much, and when he does he loses perspective otherwise. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is.

I'm in the minority of math people who would like someone like Touma, because I also happen to like literature. (parents' influence)

As far as Accelerator goes, he is in my opinion the most well-developed, well-written, and interesting character in To aru Majutsu no Index up until this volume. He's still more interesting than Touma, but because of what's likely to happen in the next few volumes with Touma, I'm guessing I'll prefer Touma's massive character development over his. Well--not really prefer, but I'll think it's as good as Accelerator's.

Accelerator has always been the most interesting character for me because of his unique perspective on everything and especially because of how he has changed over time. One book of "insanity" doesn't make up for lots and lots of interesting/unique growth moments and backstory that Accelerator has.

To be honest, the largest reason Touma is so interesting is his Imagine Breaker. Accelerator doesn't have that ability. He just has his legacy with the sisters. Even though that's a great point to focus on, this series is centered on IB, so of course Touma's got more chances to be interesting.

Accelerator and Hamazura may in time become as interesting as IB if their worlds are explored enough in detail, but IB has been the focus of almost everything that has happened so far, and it's the reason why I prefer Touma, feel he has more potential--as of now.

I could go on and on as to why I love Accelerator since he's my second favorite character in the series, and I'm sure once Aleister does some more stuff, Accelerator will become even more interesting again, but that hasn't happened yet, and so for now Touma is more liked by me.

I'll also say that Accelerator is the only anti-hero character in anime that I even like at all--though I think Accelerator is amazing. I normally don't relate to anti-heroes. I think the difference here is that it's an LN and Accelerator is just written extremely well by Kamachi.

[demino_hellsin]

To the similarities:

Accelerator = Touma who let his power define his life.

Fiammia = Touma who was dissatisfied for not finding a use for his power.

Othinus = Touma who was not recognized for who he was/is.

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by dniv

Actually, he is slightly similar to Naruto. Though NT 9 proves he isn't. Up until then there were some small similarities to him though (ones that I liked).

By hater, I thought you meant people who don't like his character i.e. think it's written badly. If you just mean people who don't like his personality, that's different. I've also seen some people who don't like Touma's personality, but who have good reasons for feeling that way (they're idealistically opposite to how Touma would view things; utilitarian vs. individualistic).

I personally like Touma, because he represents the pinnacle of how I feel a hero character should try to be like: to care about individuals and not just "general stuff" out there.

A large percentage of mathy/engineering people are sadly likely going to feel that Touma's perspective is annoying, because he doesn't look at the big picture that much, and when he does he loses perspective otherwise. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is.

I'm in the minority of math people who would like someone like Touma, because I also happen to like literature. (parents' influence)

As far as Accelerator goes, he is in my opinion the most well-developed, well-written, and interesting character in To aru Majutsu no Index up until this volume. He's still more interesting than Touma, but because of what's likely to happen in the next few volumes with Touma, I'm guessing I'll prefer Touma's massive character development over his. Well--not really prefer, but I'll think it's as good as Accelerator's.

Accelerator has always been the most interesting character for me because of his unique perspective on everything and especially because of how he has changed over time. One book of "insanity" doesn't make up for lots and lots of interesting/unique growth moments and backstory that Accelerator has.

To be honest, the largest reason Touma is so interesting is his Imagine Breaker. Accelerator doesn't have that ability. He just has his legacy with the sisters. Even though that's a great point to focus on, this series is centered on IB, so of course Touma's got more chances to be interesting.

Accelerator and Hamazura may in time become as interesting as IB if their worlds are explored enough in detail, but IB has been the focus of almost everything that has happened so far, and it's the reason why I prefer Touma, feel he has more potential--as of now.

I could go on and on as to why I love Accelerator since he's my second favorite character in the series, and I'm sure once Aleister does some more stuff, Accelerator will become even more interesting again, but that hasn't happened yet, and so for now Touma is more liked by me.

I'll also say that Accelerator is the only anti-hero character in anime that I even like at all--though I think Accelerator is amazing. I normally don't relate to anti-heroes. I think the difference here is that it's an LN and Accelerator is just written extremely well by Kamachi.

sorry Dniv but i didnt read all of that. but like i said, there are good reasons out there as to why some people hate touma. just many were half assed reasons. and i wasn't talking as if all accelerator fans love him for hes ability. i say 90% of them love him for hes character as a whole, not just him being overpowered. touma and naruto do have little similarities but obviously difference in total. you even get a major difference in feel between both characters. i don't like naruto and especially the series. no offence if your a fan of him.

anyways Dniv, you confuse me from time to time, back then you said kamijou was your favorite but now Accelerator?

anyways, like you said, Accelerator is indeed more interesting then touma but even touma has hes good points that Accelerator doesn't have. at the end i like touma better but by a little. Gintoki Sakata takes first place for me though.

another thing.while imagine breaker makes touma interesting, it only half of the reason as to why kamijou likable Dniv. it plays a part but not big as you think in my personal opinion. i don't know how to put them into words for my reasons since it's difficult but Imagine Breaker and the IT is indeed the plot of the story, not kamijou himself.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Goldzero

sorry Dniv but i didnt read all of that. but like i said, there are good reasons out there as to why some people hate touma. just many were half assed reasons. and i wasn't talking as if all accelerator fans love him for hes ability. i say 90% of them love him for hes character as a whole, not just him being overpowered. touma and naruto do have little similarities but obviously difference in total. you even get a major difference in feel between both characters. i don't like naruto and especially the series. no offence if your a fan of him.

anyways Dniv, you confuse me from time to time, back then you said kamijou was your favorite but now Accelerator?

anyways, like you said, Accelerator is indeed more interesting then touma but even touma has hes good points that Accelerator doesn't have. at the end i like touma better but by a little. Gintoki Sakata takes first place for me though.

another thing.while imagine breaker makes touma interesting, it only half of the reason as to why kamijou likable Dniv. it plays a part but not big as you think in my personal opinion. i don't know how to put them into words for my reasons since it's difficult but Imagine Breaker and the IT is indeed the plot of the story, not kamijou himself.

You should read more. I said Accel was my second favorite. Touma's just so much better than everyone else that Accelerator is still amazing, but Touma's just insane.

Also, Naruto was good for me until *things* happened and it became "terrible" for me though I still follow it reluctantly...

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by dniv

You should read more. I said Accel was my second favorite. Touma's just so much better than everyone else that Accelerator is still amazing, but Touma's just insane.

Also, Naruto was good for me until *things* happened and it became "terrible" for me though I still follow it reluctantly...

like i said, i didn't finish reading it.

same for me on naruto. he had a few moments on me but as i grew up and the story just drags on and on like the latest arc in the manga. i especially cringed with how saskue came back that i just flat out dropped it.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Goldzero

like i said, i didn't finish reading it.

same for me on naruto. he had a few moments on me but as i grew up and the story just drags on and on like the latest arc in the manga. i especially cringed with how saskue came back that i just flat out dropped it.

Don't worry. My posts are long.


Same exact thing for me with the Naruto. That's why I kind of hate it now. I follow it once every __ weeks for Kakashi.

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by dniv

Don't worry. My posts are long.


Same exact thing for me with the Naruto. That's why I kind of hate it now. I follow it once every __ weeks for Kakashi.

kakaishi was one of the few i liked in the show like guy sensei. a few others in the series as well.

[dniv]

I recently realized that Kamijou Touma's effect on me has been somewhat misfortunate/Fukou Da.

Since starting Index, I basically can't stand almost any other show... This is a problem...

The only shows I can call half-decent are Madoka/Evangelion... ... ... And while they are great for me, I don't know, after NT 9 I just don't want to even have to try to raise those series to the level of Index to even make a comparison... Attack on Titan is interesting, but I'm not going to compare it to Index... I refuse.

Touma is my favorite fictional character of all time, especially after reading the amazing events of last volume.

People say that characters & plot make a series, and in this case Touma embodies why for me this series is amazing. I feel like it would be very hard to explain to people who haven't read NT 9 why I would feel this way, but I feel pretty strongly about this. (Gintama is good too, but I can't compare it to Index because the plot still isn't nearly as complicated even if it is fun to watch...)

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by dniv

I recently realized that Kamijou Touma's effect on me has been somewhat misfortunate/Fukou Da.

Since starting Index, I basically can't stand almost any other show... This is a problem...

The only shows I can call half-decent are Madoka/Evangelion... ... ... And while they are great for me, I don't know, after NT 9 I just don't want to even have to try to raise those series to the level of Index to even make a comparison... Attack on Titan is interesting, but I'm not going to compare it to Index... I refuse.

Touma is my favorite fictional character of all time, especially after reading the amazing events of last volume.

People say that characters & plot make a series, and in this case Touma embodies why for me this series is amazing. I feel like it would be very hard to explain to people who haven't read NT 9 why I would feel this way, but I feel pretty strongly about this. (Gintama is good too, but I can't compare it to Index because the plot still isn't nearly as complicated even if it is fun to watch...)

i understand what you mean. but in my advise, don't go ahead and watch an anime with high expectations since it well only worsen the interest in the show itself. i don't watch anime myself that much but when i do i don't go in with high expectations and just enjoy it without turning on my brain whatsoever. and to be fare, there are plenty of anime out there in my opinion that surpass index LN with ease.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by dniv

I recently realized that Kamijou Touma's effect on me has been somewhat misfortunate/Fukou Da.

Since starting Index, I basically can't stand almost any other show... This is a problem...

The only shows I can call half-decent are Madoka/Evangelion... ... ... And while they are great for me, I don't know, after NT 9 I just don't want to even have to try to raise those series to the level of Index to even make a comparison... Attack on Titan is interesting, but I'm not going to compare it to Index... I refuse.

Touma is my favorite fictional character of all time, especially after reading the amazing events of last volume.

People say that characters & plot make a series, and in this case Touma embodies why for me this series is amazing. I feel like it would be very hard to explain to people who haven't read NT 9 why I would feel this way, but I feel pretty strongly about this. (Gintama is good too, but I can't compare it to Index because the plot still isn't nearly as complicated even if it is fun to watch...)

My advice is to lower your expectations for other series then. Also instead of looking for series that are overall better than Index look for series that might do certain things better than Index. For example not too long ago I started reading Mahouka and while I like Index more I will admit that Mahouka is better at world building.

[GodlyKyon]

Originally Posted by dniv

Actually, he is slightly similar to Naruto. Though NT 9 proves he isn't. Up until then there were some small similarities to him though (ones that I liked).

By hater, I thought you meant people who don't like his character i.e. think it's written badly. If you just mean people who don't like his personality, that's different. I've also seen some people who don't like Touma's personality, but who have good reasons for feeling that way (they're idealistically opposite to how Touma would view things; utilitarian vs. individualistic).

I personally like Touma, because he represents the pinnacle of how I feel a hero character should try to be like: to care about individuals and not just "general stuff" out there.

A large percentage of mathy/engineering people are sadly likely going to feel that Touma's perspective is annoying, because he doesn't look at the big picture that much, and when he does he loses perspective otherwise. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is.

I'm in the minority of math people who would like someone like Touma, because I also happen to like literature. (parents' influence)

As far as Accelerator goes, he is in my opinion the most well-developed, well-written, and interesting character in To aru Majutsu no Index up until this volume. He's still more interesting than Touma, but because of what's likely to happen in the next few volumes with Touma, I'm guessing I'll prefer Touma's massive character development over his. Well--not really prefer, but I'll think it's as good as Accelerator's.

Accelerator has always been the most interesting character for me because of his unique perspective on everything and especially because of how he has changed over time. One book of "insanity" doesn't make up for lots and lots of interesting/unique growth moments and backstory that Accelerator has.

To be honest, the largest reason Touma is so interesting is his Imagine Breaker. Accelerator doesn't have that ability. He just has his legacy with the sisters. Even though that's a great point to focus on, this series is centered on IB, so of course Touma's got more chances to be interesting.

Accelerator and Hamazura may in time become as interesting as IB if their worlds are explored enough in detail, but IB has been the focus of almost everything that has happened so far, and it's the reason why I prefer Touma, feel he has more potential--as of now.

I could go on and on as to why I love Accelerator since he's my second favorite character in the series, and I'm sure once Aleister does some more stuff, Accelerator will become even more interesting again, but that hasn't happened yet, and so for now Touma is more liked by me.

I'll also say that Accelerator is the only anti-hero character in anime that I even like at all--though I think Accelerator is amazing. I normally don't relate to anti-heroes. I think the difference here is that it's an LN and Accelerator is just written extremely well by Kamachi.

I honestly think Hamazura is the better handled character out of all of them... Probably mainly because his relationships are believable, and well connected and not just "I saved you so bend over."

Originally Posted by dniv

I recently realized that Kamijou Touma's effect on me has been somewhat misfortunate/Fukou Da.

Since starting Index, I basically can't stand almost any other show... This is a problem...

The only shows I can call half-decent are Madoka/Evangelion... ... ... And while they are great for me, I don't know, after NT 9 I just don't want to even have to try to raise those series to the level of Index to even make a comparison... Attack on Titan is interesting, but I'm not going to compare it to Index... I refuse.

Touma is my favorite fictional character of all time, especially after reading the amazing events of last volume.

People say that characters & plot make a series, and in this case Touma embodies why for me this series is amazing. I feel like it would be very hard to explain to people who haven't read NT 9 why I would feel this way, but I feel pretty strongly about this. (Gintama is good too, but I can't compare it to Index because the plot still isn't nearly as complicated even if it is fun to watch...)

Do you mean shows or novels? Because if it is shows, the Index Anime sucked ass yet was half-way decent. The atmosphere was great, but the script was something else...

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by GodlyKyon

I honestly think Hamazura is the better handled character out of all of them... Probably mainly because his relationships are believable, and well connected and not just "I saved you so bend over."

How so?

Hamazura's very existence has, IMO, generally been to the detriment of the franchise. Kamachi can do interesting things around him, but can't put together anything decent involving him. That presents a level of disconnectedness that's hard to overlook.

Don't get me wrong, Hamazura was very good in volume 15 I think. There we see from the viewpoint of a true level 0 surrounded by incredibly powerful people. Him being sure they'd throw him aside like a used rag and his utter incredulity when Rikou, a level 4, saves him, made him a compelling character to me back then.

Unfortunately, it didn't go anywhere good. Kamachi attempted to pull of a batman-like character in Shiage, and didn't do a great job. Freaking Touma pulls off a better batman in NT 5-6.

[GodlyKyon]

Originally Posted by allfictions

How so?

Hamazura's very existence has, IMO, generally been to the detriment of the franchise. Kamachi can do interesting things around him, but can't put together anything decent involving him. That presents a level of disconnectedness that's hard to overlook.

Don't get me wrong, Hamazura was very good in volume 15 I think. There we see from the viewpoint of a true level 0 surrounded by incredibly powerful people. Him being sure they'd throw him aside like a used rag and his utter incredulity when Rikou, a level 4, saves him, made him a compelling character to me back then.

Unfortunately, it didn't go anywhere good. Kamachi attempted to pull of a batman-like character in Shiage, and didn't do a great job. Freaking Touma pulls off a better batman in NT 5-6.

I'm not too sure what you mean by Hamazura's existence is detriment to the series, unless you're saying he's stealing the spotlight from more "relevant" events, and...

"GIVE ME BACK MY SCREENTIME YOU MINOR CHARACTER" - Touma

Ok, ok! I get that point.

But I believe Hamazura was a better handled character as in, his chronicle was more compelling compared to Touma's or Accelerators. And I believe this is mostly due to him being introduced so late, thus mroe time for Kaimachi to think over what his roles would be.

I am not too sure on all the details, but when he and Takitsubou, and Mugino, and Kinuhata were involved, I actually CARED what happened to them and I felt they were in a much more real danger than just about anyone else.

I can't articulate too well right now... My brain isn't functioning... But I would gladly debate this provided on why you believe he was detriment.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by GodlyKyon

I'm not too sure what you mean by Hamazura's existence is detriment to the series, unless you're saying he's stealing the spotlight from more "relevant" events, and...

"GIVE ME BACK MY SCREENTIME YOU MINOR CHARACTER" - Touma

Ok, ok! I get that point.

It's not even in relation to Touma that I'm saying that. It's really just Hamazura as a character.

(as an aside, "GIVE ME BACK MY SCREENTIME" is, funnily enough, the kind of complaints I saw from Railgun-only fans when Touma appears)

Take WWIII for example. In it, hiage's involvement just tends to drag the focus away from the only compelling parts. I hardly found within myself to care in his parts (almost skipped them, but I have far too much dedication).

But I believe Hamazura was a better handled character as in, his chronicle was more compelling compared to Touma's or Accelerators.

Better than Accelerator's road to redemption? Not really, no.

Again, how?

His plot armor is thicker than Touma's.

Touma, at least has the Imagine Breaker to justify fighting the guys he does.

Shiage doesn't even have that, and yet he wins against Mugino(who's stronger if less versatile than Misaka) three times. The first time, it was okay, and damn awesom. Afterwards...

Shiage is supposed to be mundane, but does not come off as such. If you're doing mundane, they need to be really mundane, and not have Batman-tier plot armor.

At least Hamazura's plot armor was disregarded in NT7, when his plan was destroyed because his companion at that time refused to believe in him (his strategy revolves in using the current situation and environment at his advantage).

All in all, it makes me suspect that Shiage was designed to be an 80s action hero, similar to Indiana Jones and McGuyver, only less interesting.

I am not too sure on all the details, but when he and Takitsubou, and Mugino, and Kinuhata were involved, I actually CARED what happened to them and I felt they were in a much more real danger than just about anyone else.

In volume 15? Sure.

Afterwards? Not so much.

For example, Mugino's "change" and sudden love for Shiage felt...forced.

I really want to like Hamazura. I really do. I don't even dislike him.

I'm indifferent. I just can't manage.

[LevelSeven]

Better than Accelerator's road to redemption? Not really, no.

i agree but i must say it feels more realistic, the way he fight isnt really extraordinary, he cant use magic or esperpowers, and in a world which 'bleeds' supernatural forces he survives and this from my point of view really good...

His plot armor is thicker than Touma's.

Touma, at least has the Imagine Breaker to justify fighting the guys he does.

do you mean the fights agaisnt mugino?? because i found them #2 of my list for fights in toaru, #1 are fights between magicians (i really like it if they fought with this idol theory, it is one of the most entertaining versions of fights i have read until now),
#3 are fights between espers (unfortunatly there is not much of them),
#4 IB-fights (which was partially really good but others only boring (90% of this fights agaisnt espers) ),

Shiage doesn't even have that, and yet he wins against Mugino(who's stronger if less versatile than Misaka) three times. The first time, it was okay, and damn awesom. Afterwards...

Shiage is supposed to be mundane, but does not come off as such. If you're doing mundane, they need to be really mundane, and not have Batman-tier plot armor.

At least Hamazura's plot armor was disregarded in NT7, when his plan was destroyed because his companion at that time refused to believe in him (his strategy revolves in using the current situation and environment at his advantage).

All in all, it makes me suspect that Shiage was designed to be an 80s action hero, similar to Indiana Jones and McGuyver, only less interesting.

its true that he has good moments but i never thought about him as batman-like, what i saw was a scared boy who could do what he has done because he found a reason to not run away, and that he won agaisnt mugino wasnt (at least for me) so unnatural,

life gives and life takes: shiage was lucky against her but this makes it realistic, he somehow survived dead-flags which is similar with a person who survives a gunshot into his chest only because the bullet couldnt hit a vital point......or where people should die because a car crashed agaisnt hem with over 100km/h but they still survives and only see a few scars on their body....

only after i 'saw' how others look at him i saw that he has PA, before that he was a lucky boy and nothing more, and like you said he dont possess something like IB, therefore the rules of normal life can be used for him.....

unlike Accel: who gained a heel-face-turn which was good but would never happen in real life,

shiage: is the most realistic char which exists in toaru, no power ups (*cough* wings *cought*) , not a idealistic or heroic mindset (touma), he would act like i would: with others i would go into dangerous missions BECAUSE the others will do the dangerous stuff but think about hawaii, would shiage face the magician on his own, im sure he would run away as fast as he can.....

Touma: his mindset would never exist inside this world, people would fight for a stranger but not everytime and not to this extent, after reading the posts of the others: i dont think that touma is so bad but shiage is #2 BECAUSE he has NOTHING which makes him extraordinary,

nothing like a strange power which is somehow centered into the whole plot (accel, touma)

[Chaos2Frozen]

If we're going to keep pulling the 'realism' card then we'll be here all day. If you get down to it none of them are without their own flavor of fantasy and the only thing that matters is which fantasy speaks to your taste.

[LevelSeven]

If we're going to keep pulling the 'realism' card then we'll be here all day. If you get down to it none of them are without their own flavor of fantasy and the only thing that matters is which fantasy speaks to your taste.

agree XD, now a different topic : which fights are the 'best' (most interesting) ones inside toaru??

we have :
magician vs magician (#1 for me)
magician vs esper (#3)
magician vs IB (#4)
esper vs esper (#2)
esper vs IB (#5)

what do you guys think??

[OH&S]

^
There is no way this topic is continuing in the Kamijou Touma - Character Discussion Thread. Find a more appropriate place for that conversation.

In trying to keep with the thread topic, I feel that Kamijou's fights are the best in the series; especially the ones where the use of his premonition perception (aka precognition) is identifiable. His quick thinking and rapidly and fluidly changing tactics combined with his ultra-efficient use of IB make his fights the most pleasurable to read. His fights in New Testament have been better as his growth compared to the start of the series can be readily seen. The first encounter with Rensa was one of my favourite moments in the series as he systematically countered the top 5 level 5 abilities with his premonition perception and IB.

[kaizerknight01]

it's a bit old but Touma's life in a nutshell