Nintendo 3DS

[Benoit]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

Even if you already played a game to death it can still be fun to play it again.

Then why did those people sell their copy of the game? *sigh*

Originally Posted by mangatron

Let me get this straight. You make it sound like games is all about beating them, and pretty much nothing more. Doesn't the experience matter nowadays?

You completely misunderstand me. The gameplay may have been tweaked, but it's still the same game that I played years ago with the same story, dungeons and core gameplay. I can't put it more clearly than that.

You probably didn't read everything Nintendo from E3 because they weren't talking about simply carbon copying a game from one console to the next, this is about, in 3Ds, existing games can be changed the way it's played, granting them the ability to change gameplay and by doing so they can add things and what not.

That sounds a bit more interesting, but as I'm not a big fan of Ocarina of Time, it's not a game I would buy again for a couple extras.

I'm not even going to talk about the people who think Chrono Trigger DS is a waste of money when it had a new style of play and a new ending.

The new style of play still did the exact same thing as the regular controls, and in my opinion it is not as good as the old style when it comes to the battle interface.

It depends on the person whether they think a new ending is worth it, but paying full price for a port of a 15 year old game that you already own is really pushing it.

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or just plain spoilsport, but... PS3 also has MP4 playback, it *gasp* plays Blu-ray movies, XBOX 360 also has video playback and as with the Wii and PS3, *cough*Netflix*cough*

I say PSP effect because that's what is pushing portable consoles to have these features. Before the PSP there was nothing of the sort, even though home consoles were already in on it.

Want someone to blame? It's the average consumer.

The consumer isn't to blame. It's Sony with their project to make a digital entertainment system for the living room instead of a game console. They started that with the PS2's DVD player feature. Microsoft, who wasn't interested in game consoles but was looking to enter the digital entertainment system market, saw this and made the Xbox. It's not a coincidence that they chose to enter the market at that time.

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by Benoit

You completely misunderstand me. The gameplay may have been tweaked, but it's still the same game that I played years ago with the same story, dungeons and core gameplay. I can't put it more clearly than that.

...That sounds a bit more interesting, but as I'm not a big fan of Ocarina of Time, it's not a game I would buy again for a couple extras.

Sorry if I came off rude in my other post, was a bad day for me. I'll try to be more civil this time. I can understand when some people don't have the dough the shell out for another product they already own, but.... seriously, does that mean people still use their cell phones from 12 years ago? I'll give an example for my DS games, most, if not all of my launch titles/year one titles are having difficulties being read in all 3 of my DS's(yes I cleaned them, and yes, I store them properly in a container specifically for storing these), and I sure as hell want to play them from time to time especially when some of them aren't beaten yet (I still haven't cleared the first contest in Nintendogs).

I'd like to play them again, but seeing as how it's difficult most of the time, I sure as hell would buy another version some day if that ever happens (which is why I'm a guaranteed Nintendogs + Cats buyer).

I say PSP effect because that's what is pushing portable consoles to have these features. Before the PSP there was nothing of the sort, even though home consoles were already in on it.

Spoiler for silly Sony stuff:

Well the variations of a "do-all device" doesn't really start there with the PSP, although it's self-explanatory the PSP was the first to do this kind of thing, thanks to the technology advance of the time as well as Sony dropping out of the PDA market. The reason why I like to talk about cell phones, is because it's a product I have watched over the years, from their black monochromatic display to colors displays, from simple call features, to SMS, to music and video playback, and the only reason why this happened is because some company saw the tech fit in the time it could, and when adding it, it starts the arms race of who can one up each other. Sony put these features in their PSP largely because in order to compete against Nintendo, it had to do something the competition didn't, and the main things the DS couldn't were music, video, and web browsing(at launch). As well as since Sony had dropped out of the Palm OS race in order to save LCD production for their PSP, many had wondered if Sony can come up with a product good enough to justify dropping out of a race they clearly were superior at at the time. Then we can probably thank Apple and their iPod run, which came out of nowhere, consumers would have simply bought a DS and an iPod if they wanted their Gaming, Music and Video fixx. So Sony had quite the pressure to make something good out of what they've never done before successfully).

The consumer isn't to blame. It's Sony with their project to make a digital entertainment system for the living room instead of a game console. They started that with the PS2's DVD player feature. Microsoft, who wasn't interested in game consoles but was looking to enter the digital entertainment system market, saw this and made the Xbox. It's not a coincidence that they chose to enter the market at that time.

Spoiler for long donkey-butt off-topic reply:

Well maybe not to blame them, but thank them. The consumer is the one who buys products. As mentioned above, the way products are being sold is to gain the customers you know you can reach, and first and foremost consumers want value for the right price. Look at the Dreamcast, a console that beat the PS2 to market, but had the unfortunate luck to run into a world that was embracing the DVD and tossing away the VHS. When someone buys the Dreamcast, they'll need to set it on a TV stand/table that may currently house a VHS player. Considering the size of standalone DVD players of the time, it wasn't exactly a space saving feature to have a Dreamcast near the same spot as well (players who knew how to take care of their DC knew that it get's hot, and it had to be raised to avoid death). So Sony saw a market, that was transitioning from VHS to DVD, having lived long enough with the PS1. In order to one up the DC, a good game plan was to combine the DVD player and the game console into one, not only saving space but, when you factor the size of a standalone DVD player in addition to a game console, the PS2, with it's dual capabilities, was a great achievement when factoring cost, size, space usage (tower mode), and value for the money saved from buying the standalone DVD player. Then the added effect was that the PS2 game storage had more space than the DC, which in turn affected quality of games produced, which in turn increased developer support, which in turn gives more sales for everyone involved.

The Dreamcast died mostly because it was stuck in the past (CD storage and single use value). A product dies when no one else buys it (the consumer). Hence, the consumer base being largely responsible for seeing more value for their money (PS2) than having something that can simply do one thing which wasn't doing it that well. This is the reason why I say the consumer is largely responsible for the changing times; when they continue to buy something that can do a lot of things, it opens up the market of the "all in one can-do, will-do" product. Sony capitalized on the market that was moving from VHS to DVD by making the PS2, where, what I believe is the best selling console of all time, most of those numbers was because people didn't have to buy a DVD player when the PS2 already could (which is why it's no surprise when Microsoft decided to attack the DVD playback of the PS2 in their ad campaigns, in the hopes of showing consumers that for some reason easier is probably better, to get consumers away from the PS2's "do-all" capability)

This is why I like to bring up cell phones. They too are a contender for this "mobile gaming" scene, which is the reason why a company like Gameloft is born, and continues to strive. When presenting a mobile game console to a consumer, they're going to want to know if putting that in their pocket with a cell phone, wallet, media player, and whatever it is that goes in pockets, is good value for their money (when you factor in the consumer mentality of the difficulties of carrying a lot of devices, when in today's market there exists a product that can combine multiple uses into one device), thereby saving pocket space which in turn gives said consumer a feel-good feeling of satisfaction. I know a large number of gamers who don't like the DS simply because it can't do any more than game; as I observed these gamers, it turned out they are very much the same average consumer that I bring up time and time again, and in a world where cell phones can play games, video and music, saving space in a pocket of 3 different devices, and where saving money seems to be trend considering the times.

Which, I wonder if I was clear enough in that mess of a post, because this is the 3DS thread, where we talk things 3DS, and not Sony, Microsoft or PCs, MACs, etc.

And the way I see it, there's a market for bringing over N64 games to the 3DS. Not everyone sold ___ game which is the reason why they haven't played it again, I've had circumstances where things were lost, or some idiot bastard took ___ from me, rendering me unable to enjoy said product again when I feel like it. So I'm up for some F Zero even though I bought the GBA one, which had its lame faults, and even F Zero X had it's ridiculous faults as well, and by releasing this on the 3DS, they could make it better by fixing the faults I encountered during those games, which to me would be more than enough to shell out some money to re-purchase something I already bought. So if you're asking why someone would buy something again that they already bought before;

Not every game is perfect. And I can't even count the number of gamers who would buy the PS3 ToV after they shelled out precious money on a badly developed Xbox360 ToV. Why would they do that? They felt cheated out of their horrible gaming experience.

[Gordy Lechance]

There's also the "going back to settle unfinished business" factor.

Never got to clock Orcarina of Time when it was on the N64; would like to see if I fare better on a brand spanking new machine.

And yes, I would love to see how cute the new system can make Malin the Angel-Voiced farmgirl and Ruto the fish princess.

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by Gordy Lechance

There's also the "going back to settle unfinished business" factor.

Never got to clock Orcarina of Time when it was on the N64; would like to see if I fare better on a brand spanking new machine.

Yeah, even I have unfinished business with OoT. I mentioned the Water Temple earlier, remember? I took the easy, non-full route through that. I still regret that decision to this day, and seeing as how buying the game again these days makes me SOL, I'd welcome a 3DS version anytime. Oh, and I never did collect all the Heart Pieces

And, I should correct myself earlier when I used Chrono Trigger as an example, probably a better example would be New Super Mario Bro's DS. Old concept made new? The 3DS potentials aren't relegated to just the N64

[Sides]

It has been confirmed that DMP will be supplying the GPU for the 3DS. Read more on andriasang.com
Obviously nintendo will use a custom build version of it, these chips are always customised for devices, so the figures listed on DMP's page will only give us a rough idea what the 3ds is capable off.

[mangatron]

Hmm, seems like low power draw is a key feature there. I guess we shouldn't worry about the battery life being less than half the DSi.

I wonder if the OpenGL support would make porting PC games easier... naw, that's looking too far ahead

[-Sho-]

Here the GPU « DMP PICA200 » demo technology :

Be warned it's not a demo on 3DS so the quality might not be the same .
Now wait 3DS version .

[Benoit]

Originally Posted by mangatron

The Dreamcast died mostly because it was stuck in the past (CD storage and single use value).

Spoiler for Dreamcast defense:

It didn't have CD storage. It used GD-ROMs that could hold 1 GB of data. The Dreamcast's disc reader was a DVD reader that due to a production defect could only read up to 1 GB.

Single use value isn't necessarily something of the past, and it certainly wasn't what made it fail. Having discs with less storage space than a DVD isn't a reason either, otherwise the Xbox 360 would have failed long ago because it didn't use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs.

No, the reasons were Sony's hype machine and mistakes Sega made.

When presenting a mobile game console to a consumer, they're going to want to know if putting that in their pocket with a cell phone, wallet, media player, and whatever it is that goes in pockets, is good value for their money (when you factor in the consumer mentality of the difficulties of carrying a lot of devices, when in today's market there exists a product that can combine multiple uses into one device), thereby saving pocket space which in turn gives said consumer a feel-good feeling of satisfaction.

Too bad that they forget about the quality of the individual features. Jacks of all trades, master of none. The quality of today's gadgets is at an all-time low because people keep buying crap.

And the way I see it, there's a market for bringing over N64 games to the 3DS. Not everyone sold ___ game which is the reason why they haven't played it again, I've had circumstances where things were lost, or some idiot bastard took ___ from me, rendering me unable to enjoy said product again when I feel like it.

It's not as clear-cut. Remember that TLoZ: Ocarina of Time already got a port to the GameCube. Other N64 games have gotten sequels that are better. Then there's always the Virtual Console where you can already buy them again. I'd guess the main draw for porting them the 3DS would be its portability.

[Xacual]

TLoZ: OoT didn't really get a sold port. It was packaged with preordering Wind Waker, admittedly I do have that which means after the 3DS comes out that I will have all 3 versions of the game.

Did they mention whether or not Master Quest will be on the 3DS too or will it just be a remake of the original version?

[RisArk]

I did read somewhere that they're making stuff like the Water Temple easier and fixing the bugs. So it's Ocarina of Time 1.11.

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by Benoit

Spoiler for Dreamcast defense:

It didn't have CD storage. It used GD-ROMs that could hold 1 GB of data. The Dreamcast's disc reader was a DVD reader that due to a production defect could only read up to 1 GB.

Single use value isn't necessarily something of the past, and it certainly wasn't what made it fail. Having discs with less storage space than a DVD isn't a reason either, otherwise the Xbox 360 would have failed long ago because it didn't use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs.

No, the reasons were Sony's hype machine and mistakes Sega made.

I've seriously been on an less than energetic run lately, but yeah my main points were the DC consumers by the masses didn't have DVD playback, and it's an undeniable fact that Sony took advantage of the market as it transitioned from VHS to DVD. If Sony had this grand plan of a Central Entilligence system, they would have made up their own format at the time AKA Blu-ray, and destroy DVD. But ride the wave they did.

Too bad that they forget about the quality of the individual features. Jacks of all trades, master of none. The quality of today's gadgets is at an all-time low because people keep buying crap.

Actually smartphones have gone a long way now that competition is fierce, there was an embarrassing lull for about 4-5 years where they were abysmal power-wise, and standalone Digital Camera's continue to up the pixel and introduce(complicate) interfaces, but if there was one market I'd show a cold shoulder to, it's the Media player market. As a former user of a couple of iPod's, I absolutely hated how Apple went from simple to "we're going to complicate user experiences so badly you'll hate it". That is one of the few times I hated actually being a part of contributing to the sales of iPods

It's not as clear-cut. Remember that TLoZ: Ocarina of Time already got a port to the GameCube. Other N64 games have gotten sequels that are better. Then there's always the Virtual Console where you can already buy them again. I'd guess the main draw for porting them the 3DS would be its portability.

Yeah, I know about Master Quest. One thing I forgot to mention in my previous posts, was that, they don't necessarily have to remake F Zero X in order for me to get my portable fix, they could make an entirely new one, improving on past successes with F Zero X. I guess there's still that nostalgic feeling where I loved the Death Race mode of X, and it's killing method. Same thing I mentioned earlier about New Super Mario Bros, sharing only few similarities to it's namesake, but advancing things almost entirely giving a new experience in several areas.

Probably the main selling point they might push, is having full, long games on a portable. There are a few games on the DS that require more than 40 gameplay hours to complete, and with the 3DS's increased storage and more power, maybe Nintendo will finally have a handheld with games people won't complain about the value - cost argument the DS was fond of having.

By the way, latest report on the 3DS says they are still working on the design. Hopefully it will end up improved like how the final DS was improved over the E3 2004 prototype

Originally Posted by RisArk

I did read somewhere that they're making stuff like the Water Temple easier and fixing the bugs. So it's Ocarina of Time 1.11.

I'm sure they could fix the camera, there were times when it was responsible for a non self-inflicted death

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Benoit

The PSP effect: a portable game console now has to also do things that a game console doesn't do. *facepalm*

No, this is the I Don't Want to Lug Around Half A Dozen Plastic Bricks Everywhere I Go Effect.

I would never buy a dedicated portable game console. It'd collect dust. I'd forget to take it, or intentionally not take it with me because I don't want the extra weight.

I don't want "a portable game console that also does things a game console doesn't do."

I want a cell phone that is an MP3 player that is a video player that is an MID that is a game console that is a PDA.

Right now there's a few of those but only the iPhone and iPod touch really have the game libraries to qualify for all of those.

So yeah the only portable game console that I'll ever buy is an iPod touch (I would get an iPhone, but I hate AT&T's service, and AT&T hates my credit rating).

Edit: I wish Android smartphones had better sound quality and a bigger game library. It'd be pretty awesome to game on the Motorola Droid or HTC Evo 4G's enormous and beautiful screen.

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

No, this is the I Don't Want to Lug Around Half A Dozen Plastic Bricks Everywhere I Go Effect.

I would never buy a dedicated portable game console. It'd collect dust. I'd forget to take it, or intentionally not take it with me because I don't want the extra weight.

I don't want "a portable game console that also does things a game console doesn't do."

I want a cell phone that is an MP3 player that is a video player that is an MID that is a game console that is a PDA.

Basically what I've been saying. The times are a changin'

Edit: I wish Android smartphones had better sound quality and a bigger game library. It'd be pretty awesome to game on the Motorola Droid or HTC Evo 4G's enormous and beautiful screen.

Hey, another person into smartphones here. For Android, your wish would probably be granted once Froyo 2.2 comes out and ends the device fragmentation of Android. That, and the promised speed increases would make you happy.

I am wondering about that one comment, that since the 3DS uses a lot of cpu to drive the dual 400x320 modes of 3D, turning 3D off should make the DS a really powerful Dual Screen portable

Heh, I hadn't realized, they're still on the SD sized cards. Guess having a MicroSD slot would have been too... wouldn't that have saved space in the handheld?

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by RisArk

I did read somewhere that they're making stuff like the Water Temple easier and fixing the bugs. So it's Ocarina of Time 1.11.

I don't like them making the WT easier. It was fine as is; the trickiest dungeon in the game.

[Benoit]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

No, this is the I Don't Want to Lug Around Half A Dozen Plastic Bricks Everywhere I Go Effect.

Nice hyperbole. First, you don't have to always carry everything all the time. Second, at most you'd carry three things: a media player, a cell phone, and a portable game console. Third, if one breaks, you can replace only that instead of the device that has all of your features.

I would never buy a dedicated portable game console. It'd collect dust. I'd forget to take it, or intentionally not take it with me because I don't want the extra weight.

Because dedicated portable game consoles are sooo heavy, right?

I'm glad that there are still dedicated portable game consoles, because I don't care one bit about media player functionality on the go. I'd have to pay more to get a device that does more than I want.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I don't like them making the WT easier. It was fine as is; the trickiest dungeon in the game.

They didn't say they were going to make the difficulty easier, but the item management. Which in turn would make the WT easier.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Benoit

Nice hyperbole. First, you don't have to always carry everything all the time. Second, at most you'd carry three things: a media player, a cell phone, and a portable game console. Third, if one breaks, you can replace only that instead of the device that has all of your features.

Because dedicated portable game consoles are sooo heavy, right?

I'm glad that there are still dedicated portable game consoles, because I don't care one bit about media player functionality on the go. I'd have to pay more to get a device that does more than I want.

I never once said I want dedicated devices to disappear. There's a market for them, they'll stay!

I said I would like to see other options for "one gadget to rule them all" besides the iPhone. So I could carry one thing, instead of having to carry three things, if I desire to go out without lugging my backpack/satchel/messenger bag around. Maybe I just want to carry a purse and you know, I don't like shoplifter purses, my bags are typically quite small. After makeup, wallet, checkbook, change, cigarettes, lighter, keys... there's not a lot of room left. One device is about all I can fit in there.

I would just like to see something that can really compete with the iPhone on all fronts. Android doesn't have as many awesome games for it as the iPhone does, and none of the good Android phones have good sound quality for music. But there doesn't seem to be anything that can "rule them all" as well as the iPhone. And while the hardware on the iPhone 4 is extremely impressive (and I love the design, it's very attractive), it's still stuck in a walled garden.

Plus, I don't want ads. I'd rather pay for my apps than get them free and look at ads.

Edit: If the PSP Go had a touchscreen, I would have totally bought it and used as a combo MID/DAP/game console. But having to pop it open to use the non-game functions is annoying.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Edit: If the PSP Go had a touchscreen, I would have totally bought it and used as a combo MID/DAP/game console. But having to pop it open to use the non-game functions is annoying.

To be honest, I'm curious as to why Sony hasn't tried to make a phone version of the PSP Go. Although that would still have the same "walled garden" problem of the iPhone.

[Gordy Lechance]

Well, phones come and go, and if timed incorrectly...

...does anybody actually remember what an N-Gage was?

[tkdtiger]

has there been any reports on the graphics? I heard one report that said the processor would be comparable to the PS3 and XBOX 360, but even if that is true (I'm a little skeptical) that could be because of the 3d tech they have to use?