2014-01-31, 11:08 | Link #4802 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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Well, that is just part of Shirou's fundamental character. He has no sense of self-preservation and thinks he should protect everyone. It just comes across a bit better in the VN than in the anime, plus the VN has two other routes to develop his character further in.
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2014-01-31, 12:04 | Link #4803 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
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To quote:
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Spoiler for Shirou's character:
Please correct me if I am wrong about this. |
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2014-01-31, 12:09 | Link #4804 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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I disagree.
A soldier would carry out their duty as it is their purpose, even if it means it would go against their own ideals. Soldiers also have self preservation instinct exactly because they have to carry out their duty, and you ain't gonna do anything if you are a corpse (unless that duty requires you to fall in battle). Shirou carries out an ideal that is fundamentally deep rooted, which is what he believes is right, without actually having any circumstances that force him to carry it out. He has no obligation to play the hero at all, let alone risk his life in a war like that. If Shirou was -really- a soldier, HF wouldn't happen the way it did.
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2014-01-31, 12:22 | Link #4805 | ||
Actually an Alligator
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 28
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2014-01-31, 12:37 | Link #4806 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
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In short, not all solders have to follow orders to be one. Sometimes they need to do the right thing as well. Shirou is actually a mix of solder and knight. Quote:
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Anyway, in HF the point is that he throw away his ideals for someone that he care about. In other words - he throw away Kiritsugu's wish, stopped being a solder and became someone else. |
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2014-01-31, 12:40 | Link #4807 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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In any case the sentence could be consider sexist. “Girls shouldn’t fight” Since it assumes that Saber, as a girl, should not be a fighter. It could be seen that way.
Then author says himself that he doesn’t see Saber as a girl and that thing was made to remember the audience she is a girl. You know, in case the character design, the voice acting and the sex scenes were a bit too subtle. Is like he is trying to fix a problem that isn’t there in the first place. He even address that the actual problem isn’t Saber, is Shirou himself since he is so pathetic compare with Saber that she falling for him sounds a bit ridiculous.
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2014-01-31, 12:52 | Link #4808 |
Actually an Alligator
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 28
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No you're misunderstanding when Nasu wrote the Fate route Saber had in fact been a man just a short time before. She was gender swapped when fate became a VN and then on top of that Nasu wanted to write a traditional girl-meets-boy romance.
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2014-01-31, 12:57 | Link #4809 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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It isn't like no soldiers would question their superiors' orders, but your statement put them on a pedestal despite history has shown atrocities hardly backing your claim. Unless you are really telling me that every german soldiers felt no remorse against the jews during WWII, which is far fetched at best. Many of them were forced to follow foolish/inhumane orders, and that made them soldiers as it was for the interest of their country (supposedly). There are cases of insubordination and desertions when Soldiers can't follow orders. And what happens? Martial court and the likes. Soldiers are "not supposed" to disobey, except rare circumstances. Quote:
Self preservation is a natural part of a soldier. Even if everyone knew they are often "pawns" on a chessboard with little chance to come back home alive, they aren't there to be slaugheterd. Unless you are telling me that everyone would act like Kamikaze. Quote:
Shirou was inspired and said he would do that on his stead. There is no duty behind that, save ideal.
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2014-01-31, 12:59 | Link #4810 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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But, still, I don't think soldiers are there to die for their ideals, mostly. Mostly they're there because the government pays them to be....
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2014-01-31, 14:32 | Link #4811 | |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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So keeping that in mind he tries to reverse the roles Saber and Shirou have, without changing the form the characters are set. So we end with that weird notion Shirou is he hero and Saber the romance interest. So, when the author notices the mess he just created tries to fix it, by saying stuff that just don’t come good out of a character which is say to be weak and untalented for combat. Is almost like a parody of the idea but he stays with it, refusing to let go like a man who stars a car, puts on a blindfold and accelerates to top speed. Is just not a good idea but somehow they reach their destination. At least that is how I see it. There aren't really right answers since some people might see it different. I just say that to me, the problem is Shirou and not Saber, in this "boy meets girl" story.
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2014-01-31, 15:45 | Link #4812 |
Actually an Alligator
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 28
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I don't understand what you're arguing about. I mean Nasu is saying exactly what you are saying. That he should have written them as the people they were instead of forcing them into roles they didn't fit.
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2014-02-01, 02:07 | Link #4813 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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Just saying: He change roles and then went ahead and try to play it safe. Is that what bothers me more than anything. Also what I argue is his notion that Saber is the one who needs to be change in to a “girl” while Shirou is pretty much ok as he is. And I don’t think is for the best. Also is not just in Fate but in the other routes, Shirou’s character doesn’t come right to me. So I might be a bit opinionated when it comes down to him.
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2014-02-03, 20:08 | Link #4814 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Is it known as to what the extent of Avalon's healing capabilities are?
Kirei demolished Kiritsugu's heart, killing him, but Kiritsugu was quickly revived by Avalon. At the end of their fight, if the black keys that Kirei threw managed to land and do fatal damage to Kiritsugu's brain, would Avalon have regenerated him like it did his heart? Someone claimed that if the person died from brain damage, Avalon wouldn't be able to revive him. |
2014-02-03, 22:57 | Link #4815 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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Well, they can't be infinite, because Shirou manages to die several times in FSN when Saber is still around. I would imagine an instantly-fatal wound would still kill you, but anything else could probably be healed.
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2014-02-06, 12:57 | Link #4816 |
Rambler
Join Date: Jul 2013
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I have a question concerning the summoning of epic spirits for the grail war. In episode 8 of the original series it is stated that a epic spirit is summoned based on the personality of the one who summons it. However in fate/ zero there seems to be a contradiction to this as you need a piece of said epic hero to summon a epic spirit.
My question is if the two ways of determine what sort of epic spirit that is summoned is by first having an item that belonged to said epic spirit, or that those without said item will get a servant based on their personality.
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2014-02-06, 14:06 | Link #4818 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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