2011-04-01, 00:24 | Link #2581 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Yes there are several details that were unused or changed as the movie was in the works. That's natural. What's bad though is the reason for many of the changes that made this movie your average generic mecha anime with moe and shonen willpower.
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2011-04-01, 00:49 | Link #2582 | |
Banned
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I... actually kind of like this version of the screenplay and wish they would have animated it. Yeah, it still suffers from the horrible decisions of "Hey, let's needlessly throw in a new character when we admit we're already rushed for time" and "Hey, let's suddenly pretend EVA-02 doesn't exist for no believable reason," but it's better than the crap we got for 2.0 For one thing, Mari actually INTERACTS with the other characters. She develops CHEMISTRY with the rest of the main cast and feels more like she's part of the "team." Yeah, she's still basically an author avatar who has nothing to do with the original story, but at least they're TRYING to make her fit in with this draft. They even find room to acknowledge the supporting characters (Toji, Hikari, and Kensuke). I cannot fathom what made Khara think "Let's trash all of this and make Mari into the most loosely tied character possible" was a better idea. |
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2011-04-01, 02:33 | Link #2584 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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You damn sadist . I guess what I'm trying to say is that rebuild presents these more general tropes in a far more exaggerated and uninspiring manner than the original series. There's just quite a different feeling, for example, from Shinji during the Zeruel fight in rebuild and the original TV.
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2011-04-01, 20:23 | Link #2585 |
Banned
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See, the thing about comparing the TV series to Rebuild is this:
The TV series provided a reason as to why the pilots are random teenagers. It made the effort to make sure it WOULDN'T follow mecha norms by establishing the giant robots weren't just simple machines, and the pilots weren't interchangeable due to the whole soul-linking system. Regardless of how well it may or may not have been pulled off, you can't deny the original NGE at least tried to make itself be the Anti-Gundam. Rebuild? Oh, no. The Evas are machines with easily removable motors and, as Ritsuko tells us during Asuka's temper tantrum, completely expendable pilots. Wow. Way to totally miss the point on what Evangelion is supposed to be. And then it has a glasses-wearing character who changes her eye color and shouts out some mysterious codename to cause her mecha to use an armor ejection gimmick. Ho. Lee. Shit. This is the pinnacle of "We wanted to do something different with Eva, but we don't have a single original thought of our own so we'll just blatantly rip off whatever's popular right now." On top of the abysmal Vatican Treaty swerve, Rebuild 2.0 goes out of the way to intentionally violate ever principle NGE tried to establish and drag the entire work into a pit of mediocrity. Something that was explicitly designed to be the Anti-Gundam is literally now just another Gundam series. Last edited by Hagoshod; 2011-04-04 at 13:57. |
2011-04-02, 03:09 | Link #2587 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Basically she was introduced in the 2nd third of a series and was not developed at all. In fact the only time she did have in the film consisted of pointless hotblooded mecha fighting, something you'd see in something like Gundam. And even worst? This time only served to screw other character's development in the film (Asuka), as if she wasn't already damaged enough. Sorry, she's Anno's new cash whore through and through.
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2011-04-02, 03:16 | Link #2588 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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she was not developed at all =/= she will not be developed Kaworu had like 15 minutes of screentime in the TV series and those 15 minutes were enough to turn him into a memorable character. |
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2011-04-02, 03:44 | Link #2589 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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------------------------ Until otherwise noted, this is what we have to go by. And uh, I never said she wouldn't be developed. The point is that every second she was on screen was basically pointless, if not insulting to the Evangelion franchise. She's as close as oyu can get to mary sue without actually being one. It's pretty funny though. And btw, your example of Kaworu is a piss poor one for a couple reasons.
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2011-04-02, 04:03 | Link #2590 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Same with Kaworu. The effects he had on Shinji make him a great character because by affecting Shinji, he fulfils his purpose as a character. Also, I couldn't care less about the ''widely criticized'' bit. |
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2011-04-02, 04:43 | Link #2591 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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OK. First can we agree on one thing... In context of 2.0, as a stand alone film, can you at least admit there was nothing really "interesting" presented by her character? If not I'll have to debate this too. She represents everything that Eva TV was not about. Anyhow, your example so Hanibal Lector is also quite a poor one. He was featured prominently in the film, and played an integral role in the capture of Buffalo Bill by Clarice. His character was a particularly memorable one because of the wonderful presentation, interesting ideas, and of course as well, some great acting. The key thing to note about this? Execution. Execution is what is lacking with not just Mari's character, but even your example of Kaworu. Yeah sure, he had a deep impact on Shinji, yada, yada. But why was Kaworu able to gain such a strongly intense emotional bond with Shinji in just the mere span of an episode? I mean c'mon now. Even the production team has noted several times that they his character was intended to be introduced much earlier. It was just a bad error. I said the impact was more notable because it was something we had to take a face value. Basically Kaworu served as more of a plot device to worsen Shinji's mental state with the hedgehog's dilemma than anything else. I'll give you this, for a character that was only on screen for a short as time as he was, he probably is the most memorable 15 min anime character of all time . But really, we barely got a feel for his character. Anyhow about Mari... There's nothing about her character to enjoy. She provided moments of fanservice, whether it is sexual or hot blooded mecha battles, and posed a "tiny" mystery around her identity. Oh great. Guess what happened by the clumsily way they introduced her? She was basically on the sidelines the whole time and felt like she was part of a whole different film. Other prominent characters (Asuka) had their screen time further reduced, if it was not already strained enough. She's just plain unnatural. I'll quote a poster I like from another forum... Quote:
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2011-04-02, 05:12 | Link #2592 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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And about Kaworu, can you really say he wasn't at least somewhat nicely presented? It's true his screentime was incredibly short, but he actually was and felt like a part of the show. He was a plot device but a pretty damn interesting one. Kaworu is nearly empty as a character. He's 'developed' not as a character but as a type, as a role, as what Shinji sees him as. Also, Hannibal didn't have a lot of screentime. He played his role as a ''guide'' for Clarice. Apart from the subjective 'execution' excuse you presented, I don't see how my example was a poor one. Kaworu and him are essentially from the same gens if we are to consider their role as 'guides'. The whole thing started with me saying that: ''Mari could be developed in an interesting manner in a short amount of time''. I myself am not satisfied with her character as it is. That doesn't mean I should randomly start bashing an incomplete work Last edited by minagoroshi-hen; 2011-04-02 at 05:38. |
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2011-04-02, 15:02 | Link #2593 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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The film is supposed to stand on its own. 2.0 isn't supposed to rely on 3.0 and beyond to be "good." I am not randomly bashing an incomplete work. The film did a bad job at integrating her character into the Evangelion Universe, and really just felt like a self-insert by Anno. There was nothing powerful about her character, and the fact that she had aserious talk with Shinji like that, as if she understood him, although they met for a period of like 10 seconds is pretty much unbelievable.
If you can't see though that Kaworu obviously didn't get enough screen time to be developed naturally as a character, in an unrushed manner, then whatever. Yeah the plot demanded that X happens. How best to do that? Oh yeah lets introduce a character that (quite unbelievably) manages to get attached to Shinji in the span of a few days in the show that no one else is the show was able to, and then precede to execute a grand plot point just as fast and unnaturally as he was introduced. Look, you're talking to someone whose favorite series is Evangelion, but it doesn't mean I can't admit a glaring fault/problem that arose with the production team's planning. Oh yes, you threw in the word "subjective..." Guess what? All of what we are saying is subjective (Though Kaworu's introduction is basically as close to objectively bad of a flaw as you can get).
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2011-04-02, 15:20 | Link #2594 |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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And a good looking one at that.
On that matter I just bumped into a girl who I thought looked familiar and then when I re-watched Eva 2.0 again I realized that she looked almost alike. If the guys were looking for a model to base the looks off of she could easily do it. And on another matter, when in the Emperor's name will we be getting the next eva movies? I need my eva fix darn it! |
2011-04-02, 16:56 | Link #2595 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Other than that, I agree that Kaworu's lately introduction was a 'flaw'. I never denied that his interactions with Shinji felt unnatural. Guess I should stop here. Keeping myself busy till Eva 3.0 comes out has proven to be quite a tough task. |
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2011-04-03, 02:16 | Link #2596 |
On a mission
Author
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If they somehow make good use of Mari's character later on, I'll give credit to them when that happens.
I don't judge according to what they could do, since that's pretty meaningless. I judge by what they have done, and to say that the priorities weren't straight for 2.0 would be an understatement. They could have developed Mari instead of wasting time pissing on Asuka's character. Or what's left of it.
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2011-04-03, 21:28 | Link #2598 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Both NGE and Gundam both gave clear explanations for teenage pilots, whether soul linked or newtype. Shinji's background for that matter is quite similar to Kamile Bidans. NGE main innovation compared to older mecha was in the way it portrayed and focussed on it's characters emotions and thoughts. Universal Century Gundam shows and later Alternate universe shows differed significantly in tone and realism. NGE aired roughly around the same time as the first Gundam alternate universe series, way too late to be any kind of reaction to them. |
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2011-04-04, 00:08 | Link #2600 | |
Banned
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For as innovative as it was, even MSG boils down to Amuro being some random kid who winds up in the Gundam's cockpit purely by accident/coincidence, and nothing deeper than that. Last edited by Hagoshod; 2011-04-04 at 04:04. |
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movie, remake |
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