(L) Eureka Seven: Astral Ocean

[PowerBarEX]

Originally Posted by Haak

If you think the first few episodes were akin to "starving" then that's your opinion, not some inherent truth. There are plenty of people that have enjoyed the first few episodes and think they're great in their own right. I don't have any problem with a show spending it's first few episodes focusing on the characters. It was the same with the previous series so I don't see why it can't be the same now. And plenty of people have also acknowledged that the show's link with the previous series was being built up as a mystery. It's fine if you have a problem with that as a concept but it has nothing to do with uneven directing.

Certainly it is of my opinion, but I know there are also plenty of people that feel the same way I do. And while I respectfully agree with your opinion and how you and others can carry an intelligent discussion about it, I can't say the same about a certain someone else.

That said, I've watched many anime and manga series, and there are ways to keep things interesting without letting the cat out of the bag (see "Monster", "Pluto", "20th Century Boys"). In fact, many series do hide a mystery or two only to reveal it in the second half ("Trigun"). I think the fact is, up until now Eureka 7 AO isn't doing a good job about it and is only riding the coattails of the original series to keep its viewers. Similar to what people have said about Last Exile Season 2 (which I can agree with).

Also, what helped to keep the original series interesting even if you didn't have main plot points revealed was the surfing and electronic music themed environment/atmosphere holding things together. There was a certain style unique to the original series that is almost non-existent in this series. There is just none of that in AO except for the episode titles in honor of song titles and the similarity in OP and ED artists.

[Daniel Lind]

Also, what helped to keep the original series interesting even if you didn't have main plot points revealed was the surfing and electronic music themed environment/atmosphere holding things together. There was a certain style unique to the original series that is almost non-existent in this series. There is just none of that in AO except for the episode titles in honor of song titles and the similarity in OP and ED artists.

It just was more alive in general.
But here we had to work our way through fantastically boring episodes about Goldilocks (who even now are completely uninteresting) and then Truth (enough said about that character) and then three formulaic stiff episodes about fighting Secrets. There was no oomph and very little spirit to any of these like in #12 or #13 to compensate for all this tedious boringness. The stretch between #4 and #11 felt completely unlike E7. It is especially weird when you look at just how great and dynamic episodes 2 or 13 are. 11 was odd, but it was rather Eureka-ish. So... what happened there in between? Mind it, I don't think that these episodes don't contain anything relevant to the plot or something like that, they just weren't really... inspired. It's like they had this "okay in this episode we talk about Fleur, in this about Ivica. Okay. What to pad the time with. I get it, steal a couple of angel fights from Eva!" Ehhhhhhhh. It's easy to brush off someone "not feeling" the show (especially when it's different for you) but it doesn't mean they're wrong especially if they try and justify their opinion and it certainly doesn't mean that you should call them fanboys or sheep or fools or something just because they find it difficult to get into a show they desperately want to, but can't. The problem was that certain someone won't stop talking about people discussing the show rather than about the show itself.
And yes, some people were looking forward to seeing Eureka back, and these episodes were even more dragging for them, it's normal and you should accept that even if you don't agree.

Even without looking back at the original E7, argument "oh, it gets better N hours in!" is inherently flawed. That's what people used to defend Final Fantasy 13 "Oh, but the REAL game begins at a point! Only 20 hours in!" but that doesn't change that you'd have to sit through 20 hours of painful mediocrity to get there.

[pirateking]

take a look at the updated official website characters section. Eureka is not only added, but Renton's name is also there above Eureka's!!!

http://eurekaao-prj.net/?page_id=204

What this means is that Renton will show up in some capacity in the later episodes.

[morbosfist]

Technically that site is only going by current events. She name-dropped Renton, so he's there. Doubtless Renton will appear sooner or later, but getting his name in a box there isn't proof-positive of it.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Yeah they better make up for it somehow. I mean can you imagine the original series if the co-lead wasn't even in it the majority of the time? I think she's going to play a big part in the truth, but yeah for being featured so prominently in the opening it is rather surprising how little a factor she's been so far.

Actually, come to think of it, Duckroll told of a possible theory that Truth = soul of The END, while the physical body is somewhere in GBleu HQ. Which got me thinking... Truth said that Naru is the same as him, so applying it to Naru = soul of Nirvash. Of course Naru existed before the scub coral, but Truth did also as the son of the scientist guy too. Maybe being hit by the scub burst and surviving it transferred the souls of these machines to the respective survivors?

Far out speculation, but its one of the ways to having Naru in the series all along, as she would be practically Nirvash all this time.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by SQA

We noticed, it was just one of those bits that didn't get mentioned since so much else was explained this episode.

I thought it was rather cute that he had to roll the pant-legs up because they were too long...

[KleenexGhost]

This series needs individual threads for it's own episodes.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

This series needs individual threads for it's own episodes.

you mean a sub-forum?...Good luck the mods rarely make them unless they fill a show generates enough discussion to warrant it.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by pirateking

take a look at the updated official website characters section. Eureka is not only added, but Renton's name is also there above Eureka's!!!

http://eurekaao-prj.net/?page_id=204

What this means is that Renton will show up in some capacity in the later episodes.

HYPE!

Looking forward to redesign. Can't wait to see what an older Renton looks like. I wonder if he looks like either Holland or Charles.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by PowerBarEX

Certainly it is of my opinion, but I know there are also plenty of people that feel the same way I do. And while I respectfully agree with your opinion and how you and others can carry an intelligent discussion about it, I can't say the same about a certain someone else.

Fair enough...

That said, I've watched many anime and manga series, and there are ways to keep things interesting without letting the cat out of the bag (see "Monster", "Pluto", "20th Century Boys"). In fact, many series do hide a mystery or two only to reveal it in the second half ("Trigun"). I think the fact is, up until now Eureka 7 AO isn't doing a good job about it and is only riding the coattails of the original series to keep its viewers. Similar to what people have said about Last Exile Season 2 (which I can agree with).

I can't see how this is the case. They spent a whole three episodes focusing on Ao and how he ends up in Generation Bleu and then they spend the next episodes fleshing out his and his team-mates characters, whilst fleshing out the setting and it's politics. It's very clear what with these Secrets and the antagonist Truth, that this series is establishing it's own storyline and not just riding off the previous one.

Also, what helped to keep the original series interesting even if you didn't have main plot points revealed was the surfing and electronic music themed environment/atmosphere holding things together. There was a certain style unique to the original series that is almost non-existent in this series. There is just none of that in AO except for the episode titles in honor of song titles and the similarity in OP and ED artists.

I don't know about you but I find it incredibly awesome to see an anime put so much focus on modern politics and it's effect on different generations, which I think is the main theme. And I think the sincerity is still clearly there. They spent a whole episode on The Pied Piper symbolism for example.

[pirateking]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Technically that site is only going by current events. She name-dropped Renton, so he's there. Doubtless Renton will appear sooner or later, but getting his name in a box there isn't proof-positive of it.

Truth's name appeared in the characters section when this show first aired without any images of him. Bones wouldn't put Renton's name there for nothing

besides, the phantom Eureka told Ao he need to assist her to go back to her timeline to reach Renton, its a foreshadowing Renton will play an important role in later episodes.

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by lann

Im not happy with this. they can mess with the movie characters as much as they want, as it wasnt a very good film. But to mess with the original TV series ending, and its last DVD cover is unforgivable. It had a 'happy forever after' feel about it, which is now ruined by the existence of the plot from this series. Unforgivable.

Believe me, I'm highly sympathetic to you. I loved the first series ending for exactly what it was and for how earned it felt. But I wouldn't yet say that AO is unforgivable for continuing on after that ending. For me, as I've said before, as long as Eureka and Renton, and now Ao I guess, reunite and rectify this disruption to rebuild their happy ending, I won't mind that they chose to continue past E7.

Now, if something tragic ends up happening to one of them, like if Eureka or Renton die or have to separate and live in the alternate worlds forever, then this show will be deader to me than the dead character. But I'm not expecting that to happen. I think things will come together in a way that validates the first show's ending again. Hoping anyway.

Oh, and what's the DVD cover you're talking about?

[pirateking]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

Believe me, I'm highly sympathetic to you. I loved the first series ending for exactly what it was and for how earned it felt. But I wouldn't yet say that AO is unforgivable for continuing on after that ending. For me, as I've said before, as long as Eureka and Renton, and now Ao I guess, reunite and rectify this disruption to rebuild their happy ending, I won't mind that they chose to continue past E7.

Now, if something tragic ends up happening to one of them, like if Eureka or Renton die or have to separate and live in the alternate worlds forever, then this show will be deader to me than the dead character. But I'm not expecting that to happen. I think things will come together in a way that validates the first show's ending again. Hoping anyway.

Oh, and what's the DVD cover you're talking about?

its refering to the final volume dvd cover of the original e7 dvd whereby a winged coralian boy holding a girls hand in a beach. if the writer of E7AO is not careful with the ending, it will contradict what the dvd cover represents in the future world.

sequels are a curse and a bless, but let's watch til the end to judge the series. bones might even do a movie based on the sequel.

given BONES history of positive happy endings, I believe Renton n Eureka will eventually reunite due to their stronge bond with each other. kind of similar to Edward and Al in the 2005 FMA movie whereby they are reunited in a different timeline and universe.

the E7 movie ending clearly spells out that Renton and Eureka will remain with each other to the bitter end come rain or sunshine.

hope Bones save their reunion in the climax ending, that's what make episode 26 of the original E7 awesome.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by Haak

I can't see how this is the case. They spent a whole three episodes focusing on Ao and how he ends up in Generation Bleu and then they spend the next episodes fleshing out his and his team-mates characters, whilst fleshing out the setting and it's politics.

I think he's just talking about the name of E7. To which I reply, the show is clearly riding off the coattails of Evangelion. And I'm okay with that.

On another note, I've sat through good anime with way worse first impressions than E7 Ao's introductory episodes. Fate/Zero. Hanasaku Iroha. Hell Girl (granted, I don't like this series). The fifth season of Digimon (well, okay that's mostly me). And people love the first three. So no, I still don't get it.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by pirateking

Truth's name appeared in the characters section when this show first aired without any images of him. Bones wouldn't put Renton's name there for nothing

Truth's been in the opening from the start, they just didn't name him.

Originally Posted by pirateking

besides, the phantom Eureka told Ao he need to assist her to go back to her timeline to reach Renton, its a foreshadowing Renton will play an important role in later episodes.

Renton builds the Nirvash, Eureka takes it back. That reason is pretty obvious, unless there's more to it. Like I said, it would be strange if he didn't appear, but don't take that site as proof-positive.

[Tyr Valein]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Actually, come to think of it, Duckroll told of a possible theory that Truth = soul of The END, while the physical body is somewhere in GBleu HQ. Which got me thinking... Truth said that Naru is the same as him, so applying it to Naru = soul of Nirvash. Of course Naru existed before the scub coral, but Truth did also as the son of the scientist guy too. Maybe being hit by the scub burst and surviving it transferred the souls of these machines to the respective survivors?

Far out speculation, but its one of the ways to having Naru in the series all along, as she would be practically Nirvash all this time.

Hmm, sounds like Truth=Kaoru(Adam) and Naru=Rei(Lillith). God, I hope not lol. Well, it would be definitely interesting, whether we've seen it already or not.

[Reckoner]

No. What transpired in the last two episodes has not justified a single thing about what transpired over episodes 4-11.

These episodes were just poorly made.

The monster of the week format was not the problem in of itself. It's that they made such an uninspiring use of it. The G-monsters are hardly terrifying or mysterious to me, they're just fodder for the good guys to beat up on until something plot relevant happens. There was basically no dramatic tension in these conflicts.

Now the argument here could be that it was all about establishing good characterization. What characterization in particular are we talking about?

Ao - Is depressed because he didn't know why he joined generation bleu at first, then remains largely static.

Fleur - Oh, she actually gets development to the series credit. We understand why she is there, and her relation to Generation Bleu, and she forms a somewhat meaningful relation to Ao. OK, no problem there.

Elena - Get off the fucking show. Seriously.

Team Goldilocks - Pathetic characters, and every time they're on screen the story takes a hit for it.

Rebecca - Zip.

Ivica - His character development wasn't bad, but lacked the emotional weight that someone like Holland got in the original IMO. Though I don't have much to criticize here.

Fleur's father - Cryptic character so far, nothing to say really yet.

Gazelle - Like Ao has remained largely static after first 3 episodes and I could care less where he's going anywhere since they have done practically nothing with him.

-----

I mean we're supposedly half way through the series and this is supposed to be the great characterization we have got?

Well then you could argue that unlike Eureka 7, there is more focus on political machinations and world building.

Except to me, without sufficiently making one care about your characters, I don't see how you can really care about the setting that much.

I still have no idea why they brought the idea of modern countries into this, it really harmed the establishment of this world IMO. Just not as interesting.

The way I see it, Eureka 7 Ao has not done any aspect particularly good since episode 3 until these last two episodes. And you know what was good about these last two episodes? No it's not finally deciding again, hey we're part of the Eureka 7 universe, lets actually tie in some details from this series into the original at last! Though that certainly helps.

It's because it finally brought in the character drama from the first episodes back into play, you know the stuff that established Ao's character in the first place and how the show originally started. It's not even important that Eureka is hit mother atm for me, this series still has not really established quite yet why this needed to be prat of the Eureka 7 universe (It still has time, but my patience on this matter has already ran out). This could have all been its own universe and his mother could have been a new character and the drama would still be the same.
--
Really these last episodes before getting here could have been executed just so much better. The cast could be much more interesting. The conflicts could be a lot more gripping.

It wasn't only a bad sequel, but a mediocre show.

[Guido]

Got to hurry fast, since I'm now two episodes behind.

If this episode twelfth wasn't the turning point, it is the point where the surprising twists were slowly being released.

Spoiler:

As far as I could understand from Truth, there's something wrong with the current world. Truth doesn't care about the methods he uses or the casualties involved, as long as he can make Ao to realize the "truth" that possibly connects the two worlds.

It delivered a surprise that Truth always knew along that there was a Scub Coral inhabiting within Naru's body, explaining her frail breathing condition.

Spoiler:

What we knew about Eureka at that point took on an unexpected twist when Ao was rescued by a familiar Nirvash from being burnt up by the atmospheric friction of the Earth. More surprising for me was to witness that the Scub housed in itself the legendary ship of the previous universe: The Gekko State.

But, moreso, to discover that the pilot of that Nirvash was none other than Eureka, but she's not the Eureka that's Ao's mother.

[Anomandaris]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Now the argument here could be that it was all about establishing good characterization. What characterization in particular are we talking about?

*snip*
-----

I mean we're supposedly half way through the series and this is supposed to be the great characterization we have got?

I'm not going to claim that the characterization has been 'Good' because that's entirely subjective ... but I do think you're not giving the show enough credit

For instance, Rebecca: We know that she might not be entirely loyal to Generation Bleu/might be answering to some higher authority ... but this is balanced by her sense of indebtedness towards Ivica due to her involvement in the destruction of his country. We have also seen a hint of a ruthless streak within her. It is implied that she was willing/prepared to eliminate Gazelle and his friends when they came bumbling into Generation Bleu's affairs. If it ever comes down to Orders vs Ivica ... what will she choose?

Fleur's Father: Here's a man who had to sacrifice his wife to save his daughter (and ends up being hated for it), he can certainly make hard decisions. While a seasoned politician, his actions in the Middle East indicates that his moral compass generally points towards 'Good'. He's also perfectly willing to let his daughter pilot LFOs - not exactly the safest job in the world ... does he simply not care (but he did give up his wife for her), or is he driven by an even stronger sense of duty?

Originally Posted by Reckoner

It's not even important that Eureka is hit mother atm for me, this series still has not really established quite yet why this needed to be prat of the Eureka 7 universe (It still has time, but my patience on this matter has already ran out).

I'm not quite sure what kind of justification you are looking for. Establishing why the earth got covered by scub coral ... is that reason enough?

Originally Posted by Reckoner

This could have all been its own universe and his mother could have been a new character and the drama would still be the same.

I'm going to have to disagree here ... would anyone have cared if 'Ao's Mother', with seconds of prior screentime, had reappeared as opposed to 'Eureka', with 50 episodes of backstory? If the Gekko-Go had been 'random derelict spaceship' the reaction would have been 'Meh' rather than 'OMG'. I don't know if it's good writing to rely on the original show for dramatic impact (though surely a sequel has that right?) ... but to claim that it has had no impact seems disingenuous.

[vansonbee]

Is there any theory pushing Elena toward possibility of her, being Ao sibling or part of Eureka world?