2010-12-06, 05:31 | Link #19482 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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The only way I could see Shannon being actually dead in the second game during that twilight would be if Rosa or Genji planted Nats key without the others noticing it thus making it a closed room. I seriously doubt Battler was a reliable witness at the time since he already kneel down and surrendered to the witch. Comedy option, the witch really did tell Battler how every closed room was constructed and now Battler is part of the fake epitaph conspiracy to make the last member accept the witch.
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2010-12-06, 05:48 | Link #19483 |
Zurajanai! Katsura da!
Join Date: Jul 2010
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I believe this is a minor mistake.
Episode 1: Second twilight (guest room): Battler gets a good look at Eva but not Hideyoshi. Probably dead. We do get to find out about the mirror madness business with Shannon in episode 2. Not to mention that Shannon is like Kinzo #2 when she is shown smashing it. And we are shown that Beato has a tattoo on her right leg like Shannon's on her left leg. And we are told that Shannon's other self and Beato are bad with mirrors. And if she looked into a mirror, her tattoo would magically shift to her right leg. And her body is right beside a mirror too in Natsuhi's room. Seems kind of like major hints of some weird Shannon-Beato-mirror stuff happening. And the brooch-love-magic is a whole 'nother can of worms. We're also told that Beato is bad with rain and none of the murders were shown to be outside except for the last little tidbit with badass Rosa. Last edited by Yopee; 2010-12-06 at 06:12. |
2010-12-06, 06:41 | Link #19484 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Uh Beato is bad with rain? I don't remember this.
Anyway the only murders that happen under the rain are the ones of Rosa and Maria in EP3. There are other deaths that supposedly happened outside, but still under the arbor. The Rosa Musou scene happened towards the end of October 5, and by that time the typhoon has already subsided. No clue. Probably just a coincidence. It is impossible that Asune is Asumu anyway, because by that time she was already married with Rudolf and she already had "Battler".
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2010-12-06, 06:55 | Link #19485 |
Zurajanai! Katsura da!
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Narrator said Beato was bad with rain which is why she didn't follow them outside of the chapel when George, Shannon, and Gohda were looting Natsuhi for her key.
Was it raining in ep4 when the crazy marathon from the dark underground place to the mansion happened? |
2010-12-06, 07:01 | Link #19486 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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EP3 really is an odd arc in terms of the first 4, you had Rosa break down and tell us of the 19th person and how she was already dead, you have someone supposedly finding where the gold was you have a murder happening in the rain, you have Maria dying off early, you get a the closest thing to an objective view of a killing done by a human.
If Ange really is from EP3s kakera then Eva had the heads ring right? If the events happened the way they did in EP3 that means Eva found the ring sometime in the chapter. Was it with the gold? What if Eva never did find the gold at the time, how did she get it? (hypothetical) Did the real culprit (the person that took out Nanjo) have it in their possession and lost it when Eva found out the truth of the events that happened on that day? |
2010-12-06, 07:15 | Link #19487 |
Zurajanai! Katsura da!
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Other odd things with ep3 would be Nanjo's first invitation to Battler to check out corpses.
Natsuhi and Krauss were shown to be taken out without even given the chance to speak to Eva/EVA-Beatrice. Rudolf, Rosa, and Hideyoshi also misidentified EVA-Beatrice as Eva at first. None of them ever think she is Kinzo/Ushiromiya head but Beatrice instead. I think maybe solving epitaph means you inherit Beatrice and get gold rather than Kinzo and ring. EVA-Beatrice could have taken one bar of gold with her to convince people that she is Beatrice or something. That's why Natsuhi and Krauss were taken out without a chance for chatter because they already have a bar of gold and wouldn't be convinced so easily. Shannon gets taken out in the first twilight which was done by Beato. Rest of the twilights were done by EVA-Beatrice. Dunno if that's worth thinking about. |
2010-12-06, 08:33 | Link #19488 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Another thing about EP3, whats up with Rosa giving us info on Maria's name? Why would she, a perceived meek character, decide to go against her father in deciding Maria's name? Was it a whim or does it have to do with other things she mentioned in the episodes? Where the other children names decided by Kinzo as well?
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2010-12-06, 09:05 | Link #19489 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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It's mentioned because Maria has the Kanji '里' for village in her name. It's an extra hint for the epitaph that Kinzo didn't like. That's why he argued with her about it.
I don't think Rosa is portrayed as being like that all the time. For example she married "a deadbeat" in Kinzo's own words and he probably didn't like that either. I don't beleive Kinzo's ever decided the names for any of the cousins.
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2010-12-06, 09:13 | Link #19490 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Did the epitaph exist at the time tough? The way Rosa explained the character in the situation makes it look like the epitaph was made after Maria's birth. You can also write the name Maria in different forms in japanese so I doubt its just the way she wrote it that got him mad.
Its less about him getting mad at her choosing Maria as the name and more about disregarding him entirely. The way that scene was portrayed it was like he had a name chosen for her already and Rosa changed it afterwards. |
2010-12-06, 09:29 | Link #19492 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: A Distant Planet
Age: 33
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2010-12-06, 11:49 | Link #19496 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Basically, the chapel mechanism was only built because of the idea for the Epitaph. I mean granted it's Bern that says it, but I see no reason to doubt it at all, especially when it makes sense with everything else (including the Maria's name argument). |
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2010-12-06, 11:54 | Link #19497 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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But well, that aside, it'd make you wonder why Genji and Nanjo would inform Yasu about her injury before she solved the Epitaph. I mean, they definitely could, but it'd make you wonder why they would do such a thing. Genji wanted Yasu to solve the Epitaph; so, I assume he wanted her to be at her best mental condition. Thus, giving her this information before she solved it, would be rather counter-productive, I believe. Not to mention we never saw Yasu spend any time with Genji (other than when she was playing ShKanon) and Nanjo before she became the master. Quote:
Something I believe could imply that Yasu had given up on Battler could be Beatrice's behaviour in EP2. We saw Beatrice trying to get Shannon and Kanon on relationships with the people they loved. However, her true purpose was to see those relationships fail. Moreover, you could definitely find bitterness in her words whenever she spoke to Shannon by the end of EP2 - especially when they were speaking about love. Quote:
However, it does make you wonder if Genji would go to that extent. Sure, he is Kinzo's confident and most loyal servant, but even he knew that things like what Beatrice 2 went through were not good, and he didn't want Yasu to go through any experience that could make her suffer, just so that Kinzo would have things his way. So, I don't think he'd deceive Yasu in this fashion, since it'd be basically repeating these sort of mistakes. Sure, it's not the same thing as what Beatrice 2 went through, but he'd be basically making use of Yasu's life for Kinzo's sake. It'd also makes you wonder if Kumasawa would allow them to deceive Yasu this way. Even if we assume Nanjo agreed to do it for the money, I highly doubt Kumasawa would simply agree to do this, just to comply with Kinzo's chauvinism. I highly doubt she'd do this as a woman, and as the figure that is the closest that Yasu has as a mother. I'm also fairly positive Kumasawa knows Yasu's real sex. Of course, the last few points are my own impressions and opinions. So, I guess your theory still stands. Quote:
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2010-12-06, 12:44 | Link #19498 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Kinzo might say that Yasu resembles her mother and grandmother, but Yasu herself seems to disagree, especially in regards to wearing the dress associated with Beatrice. I didn't really get the sense of extreme emphasis. If Yasu looks so much like her mother, Kinzo would have noticed her before she had already been living there eight or so years.
Also, there has never been an issue with a woman being next in line for the headship when it comes to the grandkids. Jessica is next in line even though George is the first male grandchild. Therefore I don't see the point in, if Lion is a woman, crossdressing. Especially being raised by someone as traditional and hidebound as Natsuhi, who places extreme emphasis on Jessica being feminine.
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2010-12-06, 13:15 | Link #19500 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Oh, forgot to mention something.
According to the anime, George's visit to Rokkenjima that first got Shannon interested in him took place in October 1984. Kinzo's death is said to be 11/29 of that year. This might explain Kanon's comment about "you and George seem to be getting along pretty well lately". However, we're also told that Shannon rejected the thought of falling in love with George at this time. She was already calling herself furniture, and saying that she didn't have the right to love humans. But the red guts scene is apparently the time that Yasu first started calling herself furniture, and first learned that she had "a body that cannot love". In other words, it really looks like the red guts scene happened some time before "the epitaph was solved", not after.
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