Fate/Extra RPG Discussion

[GDB]

Stupid twist.

Spoiler for Possible spoilers? I guess?:

That's ridiculous. It takes all of the fun out when you can't even wager a guess as to who someone is without just using wild speculation.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Spoiler for Red Saber's identity:

Well, apparently it's Nero, according to various spoilers that have been posted on other sites.

No theories as of yet on how the hell Nero came to be a big-brested woman who looks almost identical to King Arthur and who wears a revealing red dress as opposed to, you know, a toga, though....

Close enough. As for the clothing... fanservice. Obviously. Just like Rider wore a skin-tight short skirted outfit with a spiffy eyeband boots instead of a toga.

I'm probably going against the flow here... but I really like the dress. The sword is silly, but the dress looks spiffy.

Originally Posted by GDB

Stupid twist.

Spoiler for Possible spoilers? I guess?:

That's ridiculous. It takes all of the fun out when you can't even wager a guess as to who someone is without just using wild speculation.

Well, the idea is that you play the game without looking for spoilers on the net.

[Moczo]

What confuses me is:

Spoiler for Red Saber:

Above and beyond the looking exactly like Arturia and the whole 'Why is Nero a girl' thing, what exactly did Nero do to earn a place as a heroic spirit? I mean, his life ended in suicide, and while the quality of his reign is debated, there's not many indications that he was considered a great hero of any sort during his lifetime. He certainly isn't widely thought of as one now.

I'm assuming this will all be explained in-game, but it's bugging the hell out of me right now.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Moczo

What confuses me is:

Spoiler for Red Saber:

Above and beyond the looking exactly like Arturia and the whole 'Why is Nero a girl' thing, what exactly did Nero do to earn a place as a heroic spirit? I mean, his life ended in suicide, and while the quality of his reign is debated, there's not many indications that he was considered a great hero of any sort during his lifetime. He certainly isn't widely thought of as one now.

I'm assuming this will all be explained in-game, but it's bugging the hell out of me right now.

Neither Medusa or Medea were particularly heroic either. Then we have Angra Mainyu, the very opposite of heroism, while Fate/Zero gives us the lovely child killer known as Gilles de Rais. Suffice to say that being a great hero isn't really a requirement, you just have to be well known.

[Moczo]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Neither Medusa or Medea were particularly heroic either. Then we have Angra Mainyu, the very opposite of heroism, while Fate/Zero gives us the lovely child killer known as Gilles de Rais. Suffice to say that being a great hero isn't really a requirement, you just have to be well known.

True, but most of the above are at least famous for some great personal accomplishment or story; Medusa was the monster in the legend of Perseus, Medea was a great witch with connections to the Olympian Gods (and may have been a demigoddess herself, I can never recall...), Gilles de Rais was a confidante of Joan of Arc who was also famed for connection to the occult. They're all anti-heroes at best, but they're also all connected to some great feat, even if as a supporting cast or as a major threat to the real hero of 'their' story.

I'd say that our 'Red Saber's' true identity (if that is indeed the correct one), while not unknown by any stretch, doesn't really have that mark of real 'greatness' going for it... except for that one other guy up there.

Spoiler for Angra Mainyu:

Angra Mainyu does make me think Nero could work, now that I consider it... his legend as the Ultimate Evil is a complete fabrication, after all, he didn't become that until after he was already a Heroic Spirit and got all mixed up in the Grail wish granting nonsense. The actual thing that got him invited to the Throne of Heroes was his sacrifice, so he proves beyond a doubt that the hero's most widely-known legend doesn't have to be true or accurate in order to qualify them.

This opens the possibility that whatever great feat that Nero did to earn 'his' Epic Spirit status simply never made it into the history books.

[GDB]

But doesn't that logic (that is, great feat unknown to history) basically let anyone become a Heroic Spirit? Unless their life was documented in its entirety, anyone could have done something great that we don't know about. Just seems like a stretch to me.

Seems to me like they just wanted to troll everyone. Make someone who you'd never expect, and with good reason. Same with Rider.

[Nerroth]

When it comes to the Fuyuki Grail system,

Spoiler for Fuyuki Grail:

it had originally only taken 'heroes' until the Einzbern hacked into it in the run-up to the Third Heaven's Feel, so thet they could summon Avenger; after the corruption that then started to settle in, less pleasant Servant options like Gilles de Rais unfortunately became possible.

However, in this case,

Spoiler for Extra Grail:

Apparently the records used in Extra are not from the Earth-based Throne of Heroes, but in the data banks of some Veda-like quantum computer on the moon.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out the moon-puter had some degree of degradation or fragmentation over time; causing certain files to be modified or corrupted over time.

Maybe that could explain certain cases of gender-bending?

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Fate/Zero gives us the lovely child killer known as Gilles de Rais.

Gilles de Rais was a hero in the battle of Orleans...
Until he went crazy, he was an incredibly heroic knight who had even managed to earn the honor to wear the Fleur de Lis upon his shield.


Additionally, Nero did nothing but be beyond insane.



Wait, Drake, as in the privateer for Elizabeth Sir Francis Drake? If so, does (s)he pull out a boat?

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Flinch

Gilles de Rais was a hero in the battle of Orleans...
Until he went crazy, he was an incredibly heroic knight who had even managed to earn the honor to wear the Fleur de Lis upon his shield.

Spoiler:

Additionally, Nero did nothing but be beyond insane.

My point is that you don't have to be a 'hero' to be summoned.

Spoiler:

As for Nero, history has a tendency to speak multiple tales. Some tales speak of Nero being well loved among the common folk, and working hard to increase Rome's diplomatic relations, culture and trade. In combat, he won the Roman/Parthian war and succesfully negotiated peace, and suppressed the British revolt.

Though come to think of it... the lack of a truly defined heroic moment might actually be Nero's motivation in the first place. Every servant has a wish after all, and perhaps Nero's wish is to die in a blaze of glory.

[Moczo]

Originally Posted by GDB

But doesn't that logic (that is, great feat unknown to history) basically let anyone become a Heroic Spirit? Unless their life was documented in its entirety, anyone could have done something great that we don't know about. Just seems like a stretch to me.

Seems to me like they just wanted to troll everyone. Make someone who you'd never expect, and with good reason. Same with Rider.

Well, it seems that you still have to be famous, just that you don't necessarily have to be famous for what you're famous for.

... That came out wrong.

The gist of it is that Angra Mainyu is famous, but the actual event that qualified him to become a heroic spirit isn't part of his legend. So epic spirits must be famous, and must have done some defining thing to qualify them, but the thing they did doesn't always have to be why they're famous. For most heroes, it is, but not all the legends are accurate.

Maybe. I'm just guessing myself, so...

Originally Posted by Flinch

Additionally, Nero did nothing but be beyond insane.

Well, there are some historians who think he might have actually been a more popular emperor than modern thought gives him credit for, but basically yeah. Hence my above theory: He's famous for being crazy, but did something to give him that extra bump to 'epic' and earn invitation to become a Heroic Spirit that didn't make it into his story.

Wait, Drake, as in the privateer for Elizabeth Sir Francis Drake? If so, does (s)he pull out a boat?

Well I guess that counts as Riding , but it seems a fairly limited Noble Phantasm. How many battles are going to be taking place near a large enough body of water? Maybe the boat can fly or hover? With cannons and all, that would basically make his/her Noble Phantasm an all-terrain mobile fortress, which would be useful.

[Flinch]

Heroic Servants can only be drawn from the Throne of Heroes. According to the Ring of Reincarnation, when someone dies, they move up or down in their next life depending on their actions. If someone's actions were so great in their life, they are thus removed from the ring entirely and put into the Throne of Heroes. What could Nero have possibly done that was so great?

Drake saved England practically by himself, he was the most famous privateer.

[Moczo]

Originally Posted by Flinch

What could Nero have possibly done that was so great?

If my theory is correct, that's exactly what the game is going to be telling us. What did Nero do that was so great, and why isn't it included in his story today?

[Arbitres]

I wonder if there'll be an english patch for this? I'm growing in anticipation~

I wonder if choosing the servant affects the character's personality? (This was brought on by Flinch. Since I can see the similarity in master/servant personality.)

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

I wonder if choosing the servant affects the character's personality? (This was brought on by Flinch. Since I can see the similarity in master/servant personality.)

From what I hear, the Servant chosen only affects difficulty.

[Flinch]

Ugh, lameness.

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Well, here they've done it twice in one game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did anyone else notice that Sir Bedivere not only had both arms, but was a woman?

[Arbitres]

From what I hear, the Servant chosen only affects difficulty.

I second what Flinch said.

They should add that, if it's at all possible. I'd buy it on the spot - plus it has more replay value added to it.

If Flinch could, I'll let him explain what they could do with the integrated system. (I hate explaining.)

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

If Flinch could, I'll let him explain what they could do with the integrated system. (I hate explaining.)

The game as a whole sounds like a disappointment from a story perspective, and the battle system doesn't sound too great (janken), but at least you can customize your Servant to some degree?

[Hari Michiru]

From what I read from this thread, this game isn't worth buying...but I'm still curious about it...

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

From what I read from this thread, this game isn't worth buying...but I'm still curious about it...

That's what everyone says about their first H-game, then they're addicts.