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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 43 | |||
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... | 1 | 2.86% | |
9 out of 10: Excellent... | 2 | 5.71% | |
8 out of 10: Very Good... | 9 | 25.71% | |
7 out of 10: Good... | 11 | 31.43% | |
6 out of 10: Average... | 3 | 8.57% | |
5 out of 10: Below Average... | 4 | 11.43% | |
4 out of 10: Poor... | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10: Bad... | 2 | 5.71% | |
2 out of 10: Very Bad... | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10: Torturous... | 3 | 8.57% | |
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-08-06, 02:06 | Link #81 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I know some people are annoyed at Kio's action (or lack thereof) in this episode, but I'm more interested in the fact that none of Kio's teammates, not even Flit or Asem, has confronted him about the danger in what he's doing. I think Kio needs a Woolf of his own.
On another subject, I was surprised and pleased that Zeheart got the last scene with Reina instead of Kio. That's something different, I believe. Pretty enjoyable episode, I must say. |
2012-08-06, 03:09 | Link #82 |
seiyuu maniac
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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One thing I haven't seen those Flit-haters and Vagan-white-washers raised for this episode:
Fram gets no mention for killing that scum of a Federation base commander in cold blood (yes even though that commander probably deserved it Fram's cockpit smash kill IS in cold blood as the cease fire was called, the commander surrendered, was wounded and pleaded to be saved and was on a mere space shuttle) just because he killed a couple of Vagan soldiers, and before the smash we even get a long upshot of Fram giving him the "you f**king inhuman trash how dare you plea" look. Oh and Zeheart just calls Fram to go without even raising his voice like nothing happened. But of course Fram has done no wrong because the Fed commander was a scum and deserved it, right? /sarcasm Using the same reasoning Flit should get to shoot Zeheart's sorry ass on the spot and still get let off, since Zeheart led that first invasion on civilians and has actually committed crime against humanity which us viewers have seen with our own eyes, so Zeheart should get judge on the spot too! Thanks Fram and Zeheart, your actions just proved my view of you was right a couple of episodes back when I called you guys out that you view the enemy as inhuman just like Flit does, and this cold blooded kill officially makes Fram worse than Flit too (Flit's still on ZERO cold blood kills!).
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2012-08-06, 03:28 | Link #83 |
Banned
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First time posting episode musings in a Gundam AGE episode thread in a while. Wow this is like the only place on the entire internet besides MAHQ that seems to be discussing all the nuances and plot threads that went on during this arc instead of just muttering about how the "Girard Spriggan Arc" is pointless. Firstly I'd think it's more appropriate to call it something like the moon base recapture arc since that is the overarching battle taking place and I definitely appreciated the multi-staged attack aspect of the whole arc that was spearheaded by Abis and his men. Secondly how can it be pointless if the Earth Federation and Bisidian achieved it's goal and moved one step closer towards closing out the war with impending arrival of the Second Moon? Not really sure how that works but ultimately it's beside the point.
Several characters that had been absent for a while finally got to shine again like Asemu and Zeheart who finally met up again, but had things go about as well as they did between Kio and Girard. Fram got to shine at last and she did okay for someone that really hasn't seen a whole lot of battle up to now, but I can't say I'm surprised to see her suit all battered up by the end of this. Still her vision of Zeheart's impending death has yet to be addressed that I can recall so either she managed to prevent it by beng there and that's that or it's a vision from somewhere further down the line. Flit was in full on get 'er done mode and pretty much directed the course of the battle more than anyone else in the long run. The lack of any real comment or recognition when encountering the Fawnfarsia was a really unfortunate missed opportunity on the part of the show I think. I'm starting to think that he'll never make mention of Yurin and the impact she had in defining his life again and to me that just seems like a huge waste. This shows regular failing to address the defining moments that happened in past arcs that you really think would come up again and play a part at certain key points may end up surpassing the inconsistent art quality of the show as my biggest misgiving if it keeps up right to the end because the show practically begs for it for dramatic purposes. Anyway Kio tried and failed yet again to reason with somebody he sympathized with before they rushed towards their demise, but yet again failed and I have to say his part in this arc while it started off pretty well with the AGE FX's debut and playing a big part in getting the Abis team on the surface ultimately ended up being the least interesting and most predictable couse of events. I think that it has to do with this being like the third time something similar has happened. I would hope his experiences during this fight would convince him that he needs to rethink his approach. At the very least I don't think he and Flit are going to be able to work together after this and I can see Kio leaving the ship and going solo from here on out. Just hope if that's the case he has an actual plan like his father who frankly did a much better job with Zeheart even if it netted similar results by actually giving him a reason why they needed to stop fighting and have a good long talk instead of merely suggesting it. In the end despite some of these misgivings this has probably been my favorite arc since the huge fleet battle around Big Ring during the second generation. Just the sheer number of things going on simultaneously and pretty much all the principal characters being present in one place and doing their thing in a huge battle is one of those things I watch Gundam for. Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2012-08-06 at 03:43. |
2012-08-06, 03:52 | Link #84 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The other thing is, even if Kio does leave the Diva, he would still need to join a group because Kio's definitely not going to end the war by himself, especially not the way he wants to end it. So a solo action is also highly unlikely unless a future development makes it possible for Kio to do so. The exception would be if, by solo, you just meant separate from either Flit or Asem. But Kio would still have to find support some other way. Hmm, perhaps from some Vagans? Nah, with his luck, Kio would probably have a hard time persuading anybody to join his cause. |
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2012-08-06, 10:13 | Link #85 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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I hope Kio soon realizes how HARD it is to make people understand each other....
Flit was awesome with the upgraded AGE-1 ... I expected him to remember Yurin in her Farsia in this episode.. Asemu well.. I felt sad for him because he almost didn't know what happened because he wasn't a X-Rounder... and he was like: "Zeheart....." all the time.. Fram x Zeheart.... I wonder if Fram will become another Yurin o.O |
2012-08-06, 10:43 | Link #86 | |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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That Simmons guy had murdered two guards in cold blood. Fram specifically said she got a report saying a guard was murdered in an area where the Federation never got to. Hmmm, guard guarding the escape shuttle gets murdered, later Simmons appears in said shuttle wounded AND to top it all off there's a dead Vagan guard floating behind him...She puts 2 and 2 together and disposes of that piece of garbage like he deserved. Nothing wrong with that. Zeheart is as much a war criminal as any allied commander in WWII. We nuked Japan twice and deliberately targeted civilians and nobody was tried for crimes against humanity. He simply ordered his ship to attack, not his fault the Feds didn't evacuate/get to shelters in time lol.
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2012-08-06, 11:48 | Link #87 |
The Dark Empress
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Battleship Hyperion
Age: 33
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Girard kinda reminded me of Rena from Higurashi when she was laughing and going batshit crazy like she was. xD
So in the end it looks like she did die. It was either going to be her or Fram. 8/10
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2012-08-06, 11:56 | Link #88 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Attacking the civilian residences FIRST is Vegan M.O. since Colony Angel, Colony Nora, Colony Fardain an in the second generation arc Colony Trodia. We know why these population centers are being targeted. Ezelcant is an insane Social Darwinist whose plan is to weed out the weak. He admitted doing the same to Vegan colonies making it appear as accidents. Guys like Zeheart follow Ezelcant religiously as he is their prophet that will lead them to their promise land... You can't say the Allies targeted civilians as their first target. Often vital military installations and vital infrastructures are within civilian areas. Other collateral damage such as when bombs miss their target. Or to attack the enemy with psychological effect to put them in the defensive that they would recall forces from the front. For somebody who boast to be in military you gloss over these facts just to maintain your argument full of holes. Which tells me you are either really dishonest staining those that came before you or you are lying to be military in the first place playing a wounded gazelle to gain sympathy. |
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2012-08-06, 12:39 | Link #89 | |||
seiyuu maniac
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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You are wrong on so many levels about what the cause and effect of the war in AGE or war in general it's not even funny, I don't know why you keep posting.
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Last edited by houkoholic; 2012-08-06 at 12:51. |
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2012-08-06, 13:06 | Link #90 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 38
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Okay I know Kio has been very annoying since he started his whole understanding campaign but consider this he is still a kid caught up in events that he hardly understands himself and part of that is Flint's fault for trying so hard teach him to be a soldiers by just telling him to find a vagan and pull the trigger. Had this be any other kind of show Kio's pleases wouldn't fall on deaf ears.
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2012-08-06, 13:08 | Link #91 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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A valid excuse is that the nuke (at least the 1st one) helped end war faster (under unconditional surrender), but the collateral dmg excuse is invalid on nuke. Quote:
Last edited by maplehurry; 2012-08-06 at 13:20. |
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2012-08-06, 13:25 | Link #92 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Using two created the bluff the US had more H-bombs when they only had two. I don't like the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki personally but I do see the politics behind it. Hiroshima was an industrial spot that had military installations (minor supply depot) and also the HQ of Japan's 5th division (the group who defends all of Southern Japan). Nagasaki was a sea port and an another Industrial spot that helped support Japan's efforts in the war. Also Nagasaki wasn't their primary target, they were going after Kokura but were unable to find that target due to clouds. Quote:
Which mean those traitors still had a right to defend themselves in court. |
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2012-08-06, 14:27 | Link #93 | |||
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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The allies did target civilians because that was the MO back then. It wasn't until Vietnam when war become available on TV that public outcry forced the military to be more sensitive towards civilian casualties... Quote:
I served my country with distinciton and received an honorable discharge. I did my job and that is honoring those who came before me. I don't don't need anybody's sympathy, all I need is for people to understand that war isn't right. It's always wrong, and its toll goes way beyond the physical. You may be able to rationalize certain things like shooting people in the back who are running away from you, but unless you are there, you don't know how it's going to affect you. There's a reason why the suicide rates among Iraq and Afghanistan vets are insanely high.
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2012-08-06, 14:40 | Link #94 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Attacking civilians was his primary objective. Big difference from what either the Allies or Axis powers did during the war. |
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2012-08-06, 14:54 | Link #95 | ||||
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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I have said what Ezelcant has done, and wants to do is wrong. I've said that before we got into this stupid back and forth argument over the weeks. You however have failed to even admit that Flit is wrong in his way of thinking. Quote:
Flit has every right to be angry about the killing of civilians. It still doens't justify him wanting to do the same thing to the Vagans because that's what they did. How would his intentions make him any better than them? It doesn't. You are basically saying an eye for an eye is perfectly fine, when in fact all it does is leave everyone blind. Ezelcant and Zeheart are villains, Flit is a main character and a Gundam pilot, he should be held to higher standards as such. Stop this nonesense "but the mean Vagans did it so it's ok for poor Flit to want to do the same!". It's not. Quote:
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2012-08-06, 15:04 | Link #96 | |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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2012-08-06, 15:37 | Link #97 | |||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Flit has every right to be angry and to say the Vagans should be destroyed. The Vagans have done nothing throughout the show to garner any sympathy for them. A couple of other things to point out. 1. Vagans destroyed colonies that had zero strategic purposes or military bases 2. The Federation offered them a peace treaty but were rejected outright. 3. Vagans gun down civilians left and right. So tell me, to the average person what argument do you have that can be used to say otherwise? To the average person it's to show that the Vagans cannot be reasoned with except to beat them into the ground until they surrender which is how most wars go anyways. Do you think the Americans weren't thinking about destroying the Japanese during WWII for Pearl Harbour? Even after all that stuff we see that the Federation is hardly at the same level with Flit in regards to the Vagans. The high officers despise him and take him as a renegade who should mind his own business. At the same time Flit aside from the AGE system never pushed or incited anything with the Federation to destroy all Vagans. He could've when he purged the Federation party but never bothered to but instead focused on his family which he always has. With this Lunar Base battle the officers were clearly disturbed by the idea of nuking the base but in the end as Algurus said, "trust Flit, he knows what he's doing." In the end, the base was captured relatively intact with the Vagan officers captured. That right there is a signifcant victory with no further casualties. Flit didn't even chastise the Federation for letting so many Vagans go. How does that make him genocidal? We don't go screaming on the Vagans because they are the antagonists. Flit has his issues but at the same time we still see a human side to him and as of yet he hasn't done anything to garner such attention. We're only on your case because you dig up straws to try to make Flit out worse than the Vagans when clearly he isn't. Quote:
An old veteran who holds a grudge due to the atrocities committed by the Vagans and at this point only sees defeating them as an option. This is made worse when it turns out it's to cast the weak aside and Flit has always been about protecting everybody. For a sixty year old veteran that is understandable in his place. The fact he hasn't gone off the board is because of his family (kio being the key here as we see in this episode) When he wanted to stop Zeheart and Fram from leaving the field, Kio told him to stop fighting and he obliged. No genocidal maniac according to your definitions would do that so easily. Quote:
The fact that you stay mum on the Vagans but the second Flit moves or breathes you try to villanify him and make him out worse than the Vagans shows that your both biased and a hypocrite. |
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2012-08-06, 16:54 | Link #99 | ||||||||
Dark Energy
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: United States
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Neither do you...
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Even beyond that, prove that they were. Find me one legitimate account of "destroy the Japanese" during WW2. Yeah, that's what I thought. Chances are, even if you can, not one of those accounts includes any variation of the word Flit's been throwing around: "exterminate." On the most strict of terms, the US did "destroy the Japanese;" they completely tore down the Japanese Empire and rebuilt into something a bit less aggressively nationalistic. If you want to argue numbers, dropping two nukes was far more humane than invading and enacting their own Stalingrad, which BTW had a projected casualty count of more than 10 million from the Japanese alone. Quote:
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But hey, you're right. His actions don't match up with saying he wants to commit genocide. That just makes him a hypocrite who can't follow through when it's down to the wire. Quote:
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Dear lord people, start being consistent and more concise; I don't enjoy taking thirty minutes out of my day just to respond to one post. If a single post takes up an entire browser window, it's way too long. God, I need a drink.
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2012-08-06, 17:58 | Link #100 | ||||||||||||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Until Flit actually kills someone cold-blooded it's kinda silly to call him genocidal.
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Grodeck to Yark "You led MS into Colony Angel....even though it was just a peaceful colony without a federation base" Don't believe me? Go check out the episode. Quote:
It was clearly stated that the Federation tried to negotiate with the Vagans and it was outright rejected. This is why it didn't make any sense that the negotiations failed when it was revealed the Prime Minister was in bed with Ezcelant. It would've been an easy thing to negotiate something favourable to the Vagans, leak troop deployments for a decisve defeat and then the Vagans would move in. It was only when Ezcelant told Kio the reason behind Eden and his rejection of Earth's peace treaty did we understood why. It was because peace with the Federation isn't part of the plan so it doesn't matter what terms would've been discussed because it would've failed regardless. Quote:
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U.S. historian James J. Weingartner attributes the very low number of Japanese in U.S. POW compounds to two important factors, a Japanese reluctance to surrender and a widespread American "conviction that the Japanese were "animals" or "subhuman'" and unworthy of the normal treatment accorded to POWs.[64] The latter reason is supported by Ferguson, who says that "Allied troops often saw the Japanese in the same way that Germans regarded Russians—as Untermenschen."[61] Quote:
The fact that the Vagans' are willing to fight to the death means that they'll have to beaten down to the ground till they say uncle or if Kio finds some other way and I'm having a hard time thinking about it. Main reason is because Ezcelant is going to die and the people will simply carry on. In any case, by your account you are saying that lives will be saved if Flit goes ahead and blows the Vagans to kingdom come (which I find unlikely) Quote:
And I don't recall them giving him access to WMD either. He simply suggested them to use it but specified that it's their's and only their own decision of whether or not to use it. And guess what? The Federation officers actually have brains and ethics and Flit trusts them enough to make the right decisions. Quote:
If an old retired veteran tried telling you do something seemingly extreme then it's understandable to baffle at the guy. It happens all the time in shows and movies. And since your referencing episodes. Do you want me to reference the episodes where people stand up to Flit or bring him down a notch or two or where Flit just lets them be? First time he met the Captain he was mean to her but afterwards privately he reassured her that she'll be a great captain. And Asemu for the record has crap to show with his methods. All that pirating and he couldn't help the Federation repel the loss of the Big Ring and such. Quote:
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I wasn't aware that posting actual and correct references was the same thing as worshipping a character. His posts are so full of BS and inaccuracies and as he admitted made up crap that for me to post the actual facts and episodes makes me a worshipper? Anyone who watches the episode can do the same thing. Me? It just baffles me when someone posts crap like that. Quote:
I don't need to make things up about Ezcelant. The guy's insane and needs to be stopped. And guess what? He wasn't in this episode so what's there to talk about him? Nothing new with him at the moment. Even Revolutionist doesn't bring up Flit when he's not present in the episode. Quote:
Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2012-08-06 at 18:27. |
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