2009-08-06, 08:08 | Link #881 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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By Zenkai do you mean the occasions where saiyans are beaten to within an inch of their lives and then when they come back they're much stronger?
If so yeah, they really abused those in Namek. Vegeta especially, he went from being weaker than Zarbon to being somewhat able to fight final form Frieza. |
2009-08-09, 03:13 | Link #884 | |
Shougi Génération
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The only true ass-whooping he got was by SS2 Gohan. And he did come back. With the mother of all zenkai's as well. (He magically reverted to Cell in final form, PLUS Goku's ability, instant transmission, and enough power to be almost on par with SS2 Gohan)
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2009-08-09, 11:34 | Link #886 | |
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As far as Vegeta goes, I wouldn't really call him moronic, I would call him arrogant and underestimating, but that, in my view, wasn't the reason for his choice. Vegeta is a saiyan, saiyans live for the thrill of battle, the desire for the ultimate fight. The reasoning behind this can even be perceived in the current topic of zenkai, where win or lose, a saiyan gains strength through his battles, which could be viewed as an even greater desire. 2nd stage Cell was nothing more than a joke to Vegeta, hardly a fitting battle, and so when Cell tempted Vegeta with the possibility of the ultimate foe, his saiyan nature made the choice an obvious one. It just turned out to be a foe that was too much for Vegeta to handle.
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2009-08-09, 11:49 | Link #887 | |
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2009-08-09, 12:34 | Link #888 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Compared to the Frieza arc, Vegeta is better. He's barely able to keep toe to toe with Frieza's first form, where as against Cell, Vegeta has the upper hand against his 2nd form. Also he contributes nothing to Frieza's defeat, but assists in Cell's defeat. The Buu saga is a little more difficult to gauge. His fight with Goku was good, but was made irrelevant when Goku revealed SS3. He ends up having to blow himself up against Buu's first and by far weakest form, which resulted in nothing, but his own death. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have Vegeto. At the end he's able to hold his own against Buu's final form, making him the second most important contribution to Buu's defeat.
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2009-08-09, 12:40 | Link #889 | |
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And I don't gauge a character's quality by their efficiency in battle. Personality and actions is what matters most for me, and Vegeta's actions in the Cell saga were rather stupid. That's all there is to it. |
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2009-08-09, 13:04 | Link #890 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Obvious only because of deus ex. It was never clear just how much stronger Cell would be, in Vegeta's eyes Cell would be a worthy opponent, as his 2nd stage was severely wanting.
First off you say that as if it applies to action shounen, in action shounen a person's quality is gauged by their efficiency in battle. Second I would rather a character act like himself and make a bad decision, than a character act out of character and make a right decision. You say that personality is what matters most, but it is because of Vegeta's personality, which hadn't changed, that he made that decision. Are you then saying, that he should have suddenly acted differently, that he should have killed Cell then and there because his character wouldn't have been honest with himself if he made that decision. If you like a character, truly like them, you will take the good with the bad. He's not the only character to make a bad decision based on his ideals, Goku has made two bad decisions that I can think of. First, he didn't kill Dr Gero, which would have stopped this whole mess. Second he didn't kill Frieza, which if it wasn't for Trunks would have resulted in dire consequences for his friends and did result in dire consequences because if he did kill Frieza on Namek Gero wouldn't have been able to get his cells.
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2009-08-09, 21:12 | Link #894 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
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I really don't see the problem with letting Cell take his final form because at least it's consistent to the Saiyan heritage. I would find it strange that Vegeta would kill him when he can have the opportunity to fight a powerful foe, just like Goku did with Vegeta. The decision just made things more consistent.
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2009-08-09, 22:01 | Link #895 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Age: 43
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Saiyans seem to have battle lust and the desire to fight stronger opponents. Of course, that also leads to personality problems like Gohan when he went SSJ2 against Perfect Cell and the fusion process of Gotenks and Vegeto. BTW, got to love the Namek saga.
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2009-08-10, 05:59 | Link #896 |
Beautiful fighter.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England, UK
Age: 37
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Oh wow, watching the preview for episode 19 gave me goosebumps. I seriously can't wait for the Namek saga to began next week. It's going to be one hell of an epic ride all the way until the end of March.
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2009-08-10, 19:39 | Link #897 |
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Let the tyranny of the emperor of the universe, Lord Frieza, begin . I can't wait to hear the new pieces of music Kenji Yamamoto has in store for this amazing arc. Though this is only my opinion (others are more than welcome to disagree with me ), I honestly believe that the Frieza arc is one of the greatest story arcs in the history of Shounen comics. It is that legendary, for the battles are shounen quality at its finest.
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2009-08-11, 03:11 | Link #900 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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No new OP/ED so far if they're going to change it you have to wait until episode 26. Although don't expect too much, Dragonball Z only had 2 different openings in its entire run.
I believe this when I hear it, we'll see Dende in episode 20. Interestingly enough she did recently purchased all Dragon ball manga volumes.
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