Romance in Macross (Take 2)

[Yunbo]

Wao. A lot has happen since I haven't been on. XD

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I agree: Alto was temperamental, Sheryl might be a jerk, and Ranka came off way too young in the series on first impression. It seemed to me like all the characters in the 1st movie had already completed the series and came back to redo the whole story in a different way, already grown. Ranka didn't need much confidence anymore. Sheryl understood the meaning of friendship and her bond with both Alto and Ranka earlier on rather than right before Ep.25. And Alto was less of a brat and more centered around helping people, even Ranka, and he cared less about a true sky but rather surviving. It seemed to follow the series rather than rewrite it.(

I think that the 3 went through their personality change before the movie started because they had to jam 25 episodes into a short limited of time. Cause changes like these need to take time, so for a character's personality to change that fast within a short amount of time is unrealistic and erupt. So I think this change was just for the sake of helping the movie flow and not confusing the people who are new to MF.

Did I make sense? I tend to ramble a lot, so if I didn't I totally understand. >3<

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Yunbo

I think that they went through this personality change before the movie because they had to jam 25 episodes into a short limited of time. Cause changes like these need to take time, so for a character's personality to change that fast within a short amount of time is unrealistic and erupt. So I think this change was just for the sake of helping the movie flow and not confusing the people who are new to MF.

Did I make sense? I tend to ramble a lot, so if I didn't I totally understand. >3<

Yes, I understood it.

But, for someone like me, who has seen the series, realizes this is not how they reacted to each other when they first met. For one thing, even though you say "jam the episodes up," from the very start of the movie with the interaction between just Alto and Sheryl was as if they'd met and bonded for hours or months and were already best friends (like Alto and Ranka). It did not seem realistic considering Sheryl, from the series, was very closed off and distrusting towards others around her until up to Ep.6 or 8. This made you change how you saw her drastically as a character. However, it was a bad change because she seemed more clingly to Alto than in the series, as she relied on him entirely through the battle and especially in the beginning of the movie, which isn't like her character at all who "takes destiny by the hairs."

The first thing I hated about the first movie was Sheryl's earring going missing. It isn't revealed how Sheryl's earring went missing and we are just under the assumption that Alto has it. But when Sheryl approaches both Alto and Ranka in Griffith Park, she acts like they've been friends for years, only showing confusion about to how Ranka knows Aimo. She doesn't acknowledge Alto out of the whole scene, which isn't like her considering how she acted in Ep.3, 8, and 10 when he was a bystander. But also, she inherited Ranka's personality here of being honest and open with those around her very early. This is part of what we AruRan fans mean when we say TV!Ranka becomes Movie!Sheryl. It isn't that her complete personality blends or becomes Sheryl, it's just that certain personality traits that were once only Ranka's become Sheryl's in the movie.

On a certain note, the earring is also not lost in the final battle of the first movie but it apparently is lost in the 2nd movie's first battle (as Alto is thrown from his cockpit in the trailer and film strips, thus reenacting the scene from Ep.7 in a new way).

The next thing I hated about the first movie was how they took away a lot of Ranka's most endearing personality traits or didn't use them anymore. She doesn't explain about being 1/4th Zentradi to the screen (which is something new Macross viewers might be confused about) so her rising hair is left as a questionable trait and appears two or three times out of the whole movie. Her reaction towards Sheryl being with Alto is more like jealousy than just confusion, unlike the TV series. And she fails to become a Songstress of Hope but rather remains a normal idol. Her attachment to Alto and love for him is redefined completely as if they are still complete strangers and Ranka is admiring him from afar, unlike in the series where they actually showed bonding between them, especially when we consider Ep.3, 4, 10, 12, 13, 17, and 21 all had points that showed us they were close, at least as friends. But in the movie, we are left to assume they are just strangers that became friends on a whim with the lack of screen time.

A thing that irritates me about the term "jam 25 episodes into 2 movies" is that they didn't. The first movie covers scenes from Ep.1 through Ep.7 and then the 2nd movie jumps into a new storyline altogether.

When you watch the first movie, and you've seen the series, you realize that they're acting like they finished the series and bonded already and now they're rewriting the story all over again with their new personality changes and growths. As for the second movie, not much knowledge is known, but what you gather from summaries, trailers, and film strips; they take us back to their original aspects from the TV series where they were still growing as friends and comrades.

So, overall, in the triangle goes backwards in the movies from a third person perspective of overall personality changes and bonding in the series and ends up being a con traversal ending to the whole triangle.

(And I'm not saying nothing is canon but I'm regarding my perspective of their personality and relationships in the movies towards the ending.)

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Oh, Yot-chan, you got me wrong on that. I'm not saying it was Sheryl's death wish at all. What I was referring to is when Sheryl didn't know she was dying. Sheryl, especially in Kiss in the Galaxy, expressed she wanted someone to surpass her. And in all fairness, she never stated why, but one can easily tell in the series that the reason she wanted someone to pass her was to give her a reason to feel fulfilled in her dream when she did quit. I'm not saying that she wanted to quit right away but rather have someone who can take over for her. After all, Sheryl already knows she can't sing until she's 100. She'll eventually want other things and so, she helps Ranka accomplish it.

Okay...career death-wish, then. Either way, I think it's nonsense.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

And yes, Megumi's English was better than May'n's on so many levels, but I explained why above, because her voice allows her to sing it better.
(

No, I think she just studied it harder in school.

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Okay...career death-wish, then. Either way, I think it's nonsense.

Oh yes, I can see Sheryl singing till she's died of old age. I doubt that's her wish or dream in life. She makes it very clear that she wants more out of life: marriage, children, and to live life to the fullest. I doubt she'll sing forever.

No, I think she just studied it harder in school.

I agree.

[Yunbo]

Spoiler for Response to LMK:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Yes, I understood it.

But, for someone like me, who has seen the series, realizes this is not how they reacted to each other when they first met. For one thing, even though you say "jam the episodes up," from the very start of the movie with the interaction between just Alto and Sheryl was as if they'd met and bonded for hours or months and were already best friends (like Alto and Ranka).

Oops I should have been more descriptive here. I meant that to say is that since they had to jam 25 episodes worth of character development/personality changes into a movie. So instead of trying to show the development they just skipped that process. XD

And for the whole Alto and Sheryl knowing each other feeling, I think that it only happened cause the staff had already planned for them to have met in the past. So for Sheryl she might have been like this because she had looked up to him (in his kabuki days, or at least thats what it looks like) and wanted to actually get to know him.
As for Alto I don't know . . . maybe she just felt familiar to him and he just went with the flow. . . we will never know how a guys thinks. . .I mean I have 3 brothers and I still can't (unless its really obvious).

Or the staff could have done this just to answer one of the many What if MF questions. . . You know like the "What if Alto shared his feelings/thoughts more with Ranka?" "What if Ranka was less childlike?" "What if Sheryl was more needy?" hmm couldn't really word the last one right. . . >3<

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

The first thing I hated about the first movie was Sheryl's earring going missing. It isn't revealed how Sheryl's earring went missing and we are just under the assumption that Alto has it. But when Sheryl approaches both Alto and Ranka in Griffith Park, she acts like they've been friends for years, only showing confusion about to how Ranka knows Aimo. She doesn't acknowledge Alto out of the whole scene, which isn't like her considering how she acted in Ep.3, 8, and 10 when he was a bystander. But also, she inherited Ranka's personality here of being honest and open with those around her very early. This is part of what we AruRan fans mean when we say TV!Ranka becomes Movie!Sheryl. It isn't that her complete personality blends or becomes Sheryl, it's just that certain personality traits that were once only Ranka's become Sheryl's in the movie.

I just thought that her earring went missing during the Vajera attack at the beginning of the movie, the part where she is falling in the sky. Although I don't get how Alto got the earring unless it somehow flew into his shirt or something. . .but I just assumed it was one of those magical MF moments, like how Ranka and Sheryl are able to sang the Nyan Nyan Service Medley without ever practicing with each other. . . or how Ranka knew the lyrics to Sayonara no Tsubasa. . . MF needs to stop having these moments. . .

For Sheryl's friendliness towards the 2 might be a combination of how she acts around fans, wanting to know how ranka knows aimo, and just how she is like in general.
The ignoring Alto part is probably from the fact that she wants to know how Ranka knows the song Aimo since its her grandmother's song.

And with the 'more honest with her feelings Sheryl' I still think its one of those things that the staff changed to answer the MF 'What ifs' . . .
but now I want a movie that doesn't answer the what ifs. XD

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

The next thing I hated about the first movie was how they took away a lot of Ranka's most endearing personality traits or didn't use them anymore. She doesn't explain about being 1/4th Zentradi to the screen (which is something new Macross viewers might be confused about) so her rising hair is left as a questionable trait and appears two or three times out of the whole movie. Her reaction towards Sheryl being with Alto is more like jealousy than just confusion, unlike the TV series. And she fails to become a Songstress of Hope but rather remains a normal idol. Her attachment to Alto and love for him is redefined completely as if they are still complete strangers and Ranka is admiring him from afar, unlike in the series where they actually showed bonding between them, especially when we consider Ep.3, 4, 10, 12, 13, 17, and 21 all had points that showed us they were close, at least as friends. But in the movie, we are left to assume they are just strangers that became friends on a whim with the lack of screen time.

Yeah . . . I mean I liked how they made her more confidant and mature (errm I cant word it right without typing like a whole paragraph) but I was kinda sad when she seemed to loose her clumsiness. . .I thought it was cute. >3<
As for the not saying that she was 1/4th Zentradi I didn't mind as much, well that could just because I knew already.

I kind of felt that Ranka was jealous too. . .well maybe not jealous but envious. . . I can't really see Ranka disliking Sheryl. XD But she might have felt like this in the movie cause she already knew/realized she likes Alto, whereas in the anime she didn't yet. Unless you are talking about the part after Ranka sang at her concert and Alto made the heart in the sky. Cause then I think Ranka was confused in the anime cause she might have thought that he was saying he liked her when he made the heart and then she saw them hugging. Where as in the movie he didn't do anything like that so she couldn't be confused.
Did I make sense?

A for Ranka not being the songstress of hope yet I was ok with it, only cause the movie took the time to really show her working hard for it. I just only hope that she doesn't get really popular just because she sang with Sheryl at the end of the 1st movie. . . that would have just defeated the purpose of showing her work so hard. My Friends and I are all rooting for a Ranka who gets popular from from all her hardships. XD

This actually confused me a bit. Because I was under the impression that Ranka and Alto already knew each other so therefor they should have a closer relationship than they did in the anime.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

When you watch the first movie, and you've seen the series, you realize that they're acting like they finished the series and bonded already and now they're rewriting the story all over again with their new personality changes and growths. As for the second movie, not much knowledge is known, but what you gather from summaries, trailers, and film strips; they take us back to their original aspects from the TV series where they were still growing as friends and comrades.

So, overall, in the triangle goes backwards in the movies from a third person perspective of overall personality changes and bonding in the series and ends up being a con traversal ending to the whole triangle.

(And I'm not saying nothing is canon but I'm regarding my perspective of their personality and relationships in the movies towards the ending.)

I think thats just how a lot of movies that were shows are. . .unfortunately. . .
I can't really say anything about the 2nd movie yet though, can't tell if thats the growing as friends or fighting for the guy. XD

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Oh yes, I can see Sheryl singing till she's died of old age. I doubt that's her wish or dream in life. She makes it very clear that she wants more out of life: marriage, children, and to live life to the fullest. I doubt she'll sing forever.

Erm...maybe you're mixing up Sheryl with Minmay...? Minmay comes out and says, "I want to be a bride!" I don't remember Sheryl saying any such thing.

What I do remember Sheryl saying is, "I used to sing to live. Now I live to sing." Does that sound like someone who wants to retire...?

[Lancel]

Meeh, while I do agree Sheryl wants a lot out of life, I'm not convinced she'd accept being surpassed and just leaving it that way. She's going to keep singing largely because she can't help herself, and I suspect that largely goes the same for stage shows and song writing. Broad interests maybe, but I feel she's mostly just impulsive, poking at all sorts of things and it depends on what holds her interests long. I mean she jumped at Alto, Ranka, EX-Gears, flying, running around Frontier, and so on. Mostly singing/songwriting/performances seems to be what holds her interests consistently, and of course Alto and Ranka.

Sheryl and Ranka sing in fairly unique ways besides that. I imagine Ranka isn't going to sing Pink Monsoon the same way as Sheryl, just as I imagine Sheryl isn't going to sing that fluffy teddy bear song the same way as Ranka.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Even my mother understood that by "us" I was meaning towards the argument between you and I. There was no one else involved in that argument.

Right, so your mother shares your delusions. Any other critics from your household you want to bring forth?

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

So basically, you contradict your words of love towards May'n by saying she's bad at singing. Actually, May'n's Welcome to My Fan Club's Night had amazing English lyrics that she sang very well, even in Iteza Gogo Kuuji Don't Be Late, she vocalized the lyrics perfectly.

You can be the greatest singer in the world and still not able to speak a particular language correctly, is that too difficult to comprehend?

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

You know what, you've never heard me sing in Japanese, so shit to you too. You have no idea if I'm good at singing Japanese or translating it because you've never seen me do it. So contrary to what you might believe, you are in the wrong for even stating that.

And what I talk about with Japan is what I've either read about or learned from those who lived in Japan or visited. I do not fabricate things.

I neither wish to hear you nor do I care if you sing in Japanese. It is utterly irrelevant. The fact stands: You cannot speak Japanese, you cannot read Japanese let alone write it, and you never lived in Japan. This makes you a terrible conduit of information and a torrent of misinterpretation since you base your knowledge of Japan mostly upon hearsay.

Allow me to remind you that some of us are currently living in Japan. Yot & Karice for example, reside in Japan currently, while I grew up in the damn country! We can do just fine getting first-hand information without your meddling. Even so, we are very well aware that our information may not always be correct. Yet the difference between us and you is simple, we are able to discern for ourselves if the information we receive is considered legitimate or a general fallacy. You on the other hand...

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Honestly, you actually borderline on making me actually curse you out

Considering what I do for a living, I am pretty used to it.

- Tak (Hey Cheesie & Natsu, I demand a return & refund nao!)

[raile]

Originally Posted by Tak

Considering what I do for a living, I am pretty used to it.

- Tak

Cheesie's S&M slave?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by raile

Cheesie's S&M slave?

- Tak

[BetoJR]

You guys are weird.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

/Lurks off

Originally Posted by Tak

Considering what I do for a living, I am pretty used to it.

- Tak (Hey Cheesie & Natsu, I demand a return & refund nao!)

What is this fallacy about return-refund? You love your harem! I owe you nothing since you certainly seems to enjoy every second of those S&--- errr, I mean, those!

(Just to put Takky's flaming heart into ease (?), Takky you will forever be the bottom in my pure heart! That's why I cannot ship thee with LMK, since you obviously will be topping, and I don't want a topping!Takky in my Takky ship list~)

(On another note, shouldn't the Northern Cross Discussion be on Music Thread? )

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

What is this fallacy about return-refund? You love your harem! I owe you nothing since you certainly seems to enjoy every second of it!

Honey, you ought to tell me who you are bringing in. Some aren't very friendly... takes a bit of an effort to erm... pacify, and I am kind of erm, lazy.

I prefer to get straight to business

- Tak (speaking of harems, I have been watching Tenchi Muyo again for some odd reason...)

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Erm...maybe you're mixing up Sheryl with Minmay...? Minmay comes out and says, "I want to be a bride!" I don't remember Sheryl saying any such thing.

What I do remember Sheryl saying is, "I used to sing to live. Now I live to sing." Does that sound like someone who wants to retire...?

People change over time is all I'm saying.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by Tak

Honey, you ought to tell me who you are bringing in. Some aren't very friendly... takes a bit of an effort to erm... pacify, and I am kind of erm, lazy.
- Tak

Tsk, tsk. I certainly see the contrary to all this statement, my dear M!Takky. <3

/Runs to catch a train now. GOOD BYE FREE WIFI /sob

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Sheryl might retire and decide to settle down?

So Ranka & Ai-Kun eventually settled down... and...

... ... oh boy...

- Tak

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

People change over time is all I'm saying.

Oh. I thought that you said that Sheryl DEFINITELY wanted to retire and settle down. I guess I was mistaken...

[Darthtabby]

Wasn't it strongly indicated that Sheryl was lying in an attempt to piss Alto off and drive him away when she said that stuff about having already accomplished everything she wanted in terms of singing?

Originally Posted by Hollowgolem

Sheryl came to the Frontier already a star in her own right from Galaxy. I assume, unless otherwise stated, that the songs she performs in the content of this story's timeline were already written, and just deemed poignant for that moment in the story.

I can see Sheryl writing some new songs after she decided to do those charity concerts for the people of Frontier. Yousei gives the impression of being something new. Granted Northern Cross doesn't really give this impression so much.

Originally Posted by Hollowgolem

I always interpreted the Northern Star bit as a nod to Alto's love of the sky. In a bygone era, someone with a lust for adventure might, rather than flying in the sky, be pulled out into the sea, seeking adventure as a sailor. Polaris would be the guiding star for such sailors, "leading" or even "pulling"/"snatching" them from their beloved. Especially folk songs from the British Isles use this motif, like The Dark-Eyed Lady. But there are plenty of examples all over anime where Space is an Ocean, as well, so the idea of a woman pining for a lost lover seeking his adventure in the stars would be a low-hanging fruit for a woman writing songs in a place like Galaxy, filled with flyboys who presumably left lovers behind when they took to the skies.

I can see where you're coming from. Heck, I didn't really see the references to the Northern Star as referring to Ranka either. But the lines about what the Northern Star is doing seem to fit her so well. Otherwise why was the line about the Northern Star crying included? I can see the burning part, but why crying?

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Oh. I thought that you said that Sheryl DEFINITELY wanted to retire and settle down. I guess I was mistaken...

And I just don't see someone doing one thing their whole life. Otherwise, that would be boring. Plus, eventually, she might want other things. That isn't shocking. Humans always want more out of life, as we know. Sheryl Nome is no exception. I doubt she sings till she actually dies of old age. There are many other things she want that eventually must come first. Just like Alto was born to be an actor who longed for the sky and he left acting to fly, then made amends with it. Their desires change over time.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

And I just don't see someone doing one thing their whole life. Otherwise, that would be boring.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Sheryl Nome is no exception. I doubt she sings till she actually dies of old age.

Elvis, Michael Jackson, Rolling Stones...

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

There are many other things she want that eventually must come first.

She can perfectly handle a singing career as well as commit to other activities, its called multitasking. Most humans are able to do just that.

- Tak