2008-08-28, 08:45 | Link #641 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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I don't ask it to derail this thread or even to stir up discussion. My personal view is that national pride is detrimental, yet statements like "national pride is important" or "you should be proud of your nation" are incredibly common. I ask why because nobody else does, and I think it's something that is important to consider. We aren't honeybees chained to a hive, here. We're all small parts of something greater, all roughly working together to build, maintain, and advance that something greater. Why is pride in one hive important?
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2008-08-28, 12:38 | Link #642 | |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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National pride, or patriotism, is not important. But it is nice to have.
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Any belief or opinion carried to an extreme is detrimental. But then, the person is to blame, not the idea of nationalism itself. However, it is interesting to wonder what nationalism means today. It's not quite the same animal it was back in the 19th to early 20th centuries. Even then, it meant different things to different people. For European nations, particularly the colonial powers, nationalism is inextricably linked with ethnic identity, which is itself deeply tied to the way you looked, the language you spoke, the way you worshipped and a shared history. For the former colonies of imperial powers, nationalism took on a different meaning, tied usually to each colony's independence movement. The sense of nationhood was literally forged from the struggle for freedom. The struggle itself becomes part of a national mythology that binds otherwise disparate people together. (2) I'm more interested, for obvious reasons, in the latter form nationalism, because of the curious way in which it has created several "artificial" nations such as my country and — you've guessed it — the United States. Such countries do not enjoy the luxury of a common ethnic identity to define its values and sense of place in the world. Instead, these countries are founded on a set of ideas that its citizens believe in, and one would hope, be willing to fight and die for. Seen from this perspective, why should nationalism or patriotism be detrimental? It's the glue that holds people together, even as it acts as a solvent to dissolve petty differences such as race, language or religion. A country that fails to break down these barriers is likely to become a failed state, not unlike the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. That's why I feel that nationalism born from a set of noble ideas is worthy of admiration, if not always emulation. (3) But, if you look closely, you'd notice that even this idea of nationalism is slowly evolving into something else, and has been doing so since the mid-20th century. Technology is increasingly turning the world into a global village. Borders are growing increasingly porous. As the North-South divide grows ever wider, people from poor countries will continue to flock in massive numbers to richer countries, in search for jobs and better living. And, if opportunities allow, they'd want to settle where the grass is greener, and hence become a part of an increasingly multi-coloured nation. What would nationalism mean then, under such circumstances? (4) There is another kink in the equation, the prime agent of economic globalisation: The multinational corporation, faceless entities that are not necessarily bound by the laws of any given country. It is ruled by an unsentimental love for money and efficiency — if it doesn't like how it is being treated in one state, it can easily uproot itself and relocate to places that offer better investment potential. While doing so, the company pulls along employees of all kinds of ethnicities and nationalities. In its quest to sharpen its competitive advantage, the modern corporation poaches talent wherever it can be found. And, depending on the corporate culture, it is not unusual to find employees who believe passionately in their organisation's mission and values, for example, Google's credo: "Don't be evil." It seems to me that a different kind of "nationalism" is being born, one that transcends international borders. Even if you despise the smell of lucre, you can find the same kind of passion in international non-profit corporations like Raleigh International, AIESIC, or the biggest one of them all: The United Nations. Will the day come when we think of ourselves as citizens of the world, when nationalism becomes truly irrelevant? Nah. I don't think it's likely. At least, not until we colonise the planets. Then, perhaps, we'd start thinking in terms of "planetism" instead, say, Earthlings v Martians, for example. Until then, like it or not, we'll still be defined, at least in part, by our nationality. In this sense, nationalism is no more or less detrimental than any other way we choose to define ourselves as individuals. I don't see why it must necessarily be harmful. Why can't we learn to celebrate differences instead? A little bit of variety is infinitely more preferable than an eternity of dreary sameness. Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-08-28 at 12:48. |
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2008-08-28, 12:56 | Link #643 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I suspect we'll see every rightwing looney toon trick ever mustered before November. -- back to the nationalism and pride.... Nationalism (or "loyalty to the city-state") has always seemed to be a manipulative tool of the powerful over the common people, simply a replacement for what some see religion as. I've always understood *cultural* pride or *social pride* because that is something generated by everyone who participates to some degree. I'm more fond of the ideals of the Constitution, the Declaration, and the people who coined them than I am of the artifact called the USA on some given days. I'm fond of my Northern European heritage in terms of the ancient history and mythology than of the antics of the modern entities. My wife is proud of her japanese heritage (though she rolls her eyes at a lot of the social nonsense that goes on in present Japan) and she'd proud of being a 3rd generation Texan (despite having no love for much of what goes on there and comes from there). I suppose one could call excessive nationalism some form of semi-functional insanity
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Last edited by Vexx; 2008-08-28 at 13:06. |
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2008-08-28, 14:10 | Link #644 | |
カカシ
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Well my Montenegrian heritage and culture revolves mostly around eating food. The national pride is to stuff yourself, albeit healthily. As a result we're known for being the laziest nation in the world, as well as a nation that cares about absolutely nothing. Anything that doesn't concern catching a few fish for dinner isn't vital information. But our belief in eating well has accomplished one thing:
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2008-08-28, 15:10 | Link #645 | |
Mr. Awesome
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Underpants Gnome Factory
Age: 36
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26435994/ Quote:
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2008-08-28, 15:13 | Link #646 | |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Continuing the topic of nationalism... on a lighter note
The National Anthems Top 10 Chart Quote:
It's really hard not to break into a smile listening to that tune. My next favourite sounds completely opposite: It sounds so sad, yet so noble. So very Japanese. Closer to home, I've always felt Malaysia's anthem sounds suitably stirring and stately at the same time: It sounds very different when sung. In comparison, Singapore's anthem sounds, hmm, a little bit too whimsical. It won't win any prizes from an objective listener, but what the heck, I'd be bluffing if I say it doesn't stir my pride to hear it play during flag-raising ceremonies. Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-08-28 at 15:38. |
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2008-08-28, 15:32 | Link #647 | |
Honyaku no Hime
Fansubber
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
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For some reason, I'm kinda glad to be sitting on the side line with a bowl of popcorn watching this objectively. You'd almost forget that this is just to choose a leader to benefit the country as much as poss like the rest of the world to in their own countries (if they are under a democratic system) But the drama you guys must have on your TV screens and news atm, almost feels like a serial TV show... *TV Drama male voice* Tune in next week, as we find out the latest shocking secret that could blow Obama's dreams of becoming president sky high! I kinda feel Vexx's annoyence there and I'm not even voting for this thing... PS: I just laughed at that green frog thing xD I do have faith, so i'm wondering why i'm not offended by that, but find it ridiculous? (Think i won't be entering heaven anytime soon) >.>
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2008-08-28, 15:42 | Link #648 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'm having trouble finding this bit of work anything but Monty Python absurdist funny rather than any symbol of personal angst or rating the puffed up self-important blasphemy charges against it. I have really about had it with all the assumption that religion or personal beliefs/nonbeliefs of any kind rate some automatic pass in terms of respect.
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2008-08-28, 16:56 | Link #649 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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I suppose I'm more proud of the ideals of the constitution of the US than an unyielding loyalty to this land or even the people who rule it.
In reference to Obama, you can like him or lump him. But for the sake of all that is good, I hope dearly that nothing REALLY malicious happens to the man. I heard much earlier in the news that someone had some death threat against John McCain. I don;t want anything bad to happen to him either. But all who know american history know whatll happen if Obama if he's killed or denyed citizenship unfairly or whatever, it'll raise holy hell. As for the crucifix of the animal; For me, it's just another wacky piece of modern art If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (which I don't) does it really matter what media in this world says? If the wholle thing is true then the artist is just going to hell anyways. |
2008-08-28, 17:03 | Link #650 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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On National anthems, I've always loved the French one. I like the rythym off it. Fast and peppy. Spain's is too.
Same with russian one, but not if it's played too slowly. Japans is more appealing to me than China's is, it seems more uniquely Asian in style then China's. British's on it's own is a bit too slow moving and heavy sounding to me. Canada's is ok as is ours. |
2008-08-28, 17:04 | Link #651 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Continuing the topic of nationalism... on a lighter note
Nothing beats the Soviet Anthem. Even if you're not Soviet/Russian it does make you feel very nationalistic.
[Red Army choir] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q [1977 version] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVCHskVub3g Today, the tune lives on with different lyrics. |
2008-08-28, 17:33 | Link #652 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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Um, the French anthem doesn't make me feel nationalistic. I just think it's a more entertaining/engaging instrumental piece of music than certain others (US included).
However, when you get into the lyrics, then that's a whole new can of worms. If you read the Japanese national anthem, it harkens back to it's past era of emperor rule. Some people say it's too much in reference to a past which say MASSIVE atrocities against foriegners. I say it doesn't have to. Like the bible or quran or torah, it can mean anything you want it to. |
2008-08-28, 18:06 | Link #653 | |
Honyaku no Hime
Fansubber
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
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The only thing with Christianity, is that it's dumbed down so much and lost the total power it used to have, more and more people take liberties with it (ie, south park) and more and more of us kinda let it slide. Doesn't mean we don't find it offensive as much people took offence with the spain footy team and that pic they took at the olympics. Even if nothing malicious was meant by it, its the 'poking fun' some people don't like on certain aspects of their lives or culture and i guess we all have a right to be sensitive on some things... PS: Edit button is a handy feature to minimise your double (or triple) posts
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2008-08-28, 20:06 | Link #654 |
♪♫ Maya Iincho ♩♬
Artist
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It's official: Comcast starts 250GB bandwidth caps October 1
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...october-1.html
Of course I only say this due to my ISP being Comcast itself. Though I really don't torrent too much to even reach a 250gb limit, the other users in this house will add to that since I know my brother torrents and seed like crazy. What do you guys think of this?
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2008-08-28, 20:18 | Link #655 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'm always suspicious of Comcast because they're used to being content controllers ... if they want to stream into the future will THAT data be counted against the limit?
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2008-08-28, 20:37 | Link #656 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Just to follow up on the completely wacky "Obama not born in US" FUD... here's the reality from FactCheck.org:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html
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2008-08-28, 20:43 | Link #657 | |
9wiki
Scanlator
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I would not doubt, though, that this may be a way to simply defuse such accusations as early as possible to prevent them being used to sway public opinion close to the election. There are a few interesting technicalities that may make this not so cut-and-dry, even with a valid birth certificate. I'm curious to see how it plays out.
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2008-08-28, 22:18 | Link #658 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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That's nothing! Here in Vegas, COX Communications caps my $45 internet 40GB downstream / 10GB upstream. |
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2008-08-29, 03:52 | Link #660 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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http://www.cox.com/lasvegas/highspee...et/pricing.asp I cry foul! But yet I'm glad I don't live in UK and Canada where internet there is much slower and it's under surveillance by Big Brother. I download a lot. I have yet to feel slowdowns or receive a letter telling me that I'm hogging the bandwidth. I've been COX customer since 2003 and I guess data stream limit only applies to customers that signed up on after March 1, 2008. |
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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