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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 22 [END] Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 29 | 26.36% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 31 | 28.18% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 24 | 21.82% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 12 | 10.91% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 7 | 6.36% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 3 | 2.73% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 2 | 1.82% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 0.91% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 0.91% | |
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-03-23, 18:50 | Link #181 |
Psycho Falling Deep
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: The Anime World
Age: 29
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Man, i'm so glad they allowed Kogami to personally kill Makishima in the end. I was half expecting the usual to happen where the villain is spared, the charges against Kogami is dropped and everyone lives happily ever after. Instead the exact opposite happened which was like a breath of fresh air
The one thing I was surprised about is that Ginoza wasn't added to the whole Kagami vs Makishima vs Akane interactions. I was honestly expecting what I said in the paragraph above, and that it involved Ginoza somehow since he just lost his father before his eyes. Obviously his Psycho-Pass went way up after that, especially since it was on the verge of going over the edge. I thought he would sacrifice himself to distract Makishima, allowing Akane to arrest him, or he could have killed Makishima himself since it was too late for him. Ah well, I was actually glad Ginoza lived, and in that last scene where he was being introduced as an enforcer to the new recruit, he looked epic as well as the entire scene and dialogue Hoping for a season 2.
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2013-03-23, 18:57 | Link #182 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
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The comparisons with 1984 are getting tiring. Gen chose to make this ending more ambiguous leaving the viewer with their own answer unless they make a second season. Because the Sybil ended laughing does it mean they won? Akane never started a fight against the system and starting one would be meaningless since she could easily be killed. The only way she could destroy Sybil is by becoming the second Makishima but that's a path that Kogami is close to take.
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2013-03-23, 19:06 | Link #184 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Marathoned the series and i really loved it from beginning to end. Probably my favorite part about the show was how elegantly they handled all the opposing philosophies revolving around things like justice, security vs. free will, etc. I really appreciated the fact that the writer didn't hamfist one ideology down the viewers' throats as the "right" way of doing things. Instead, it felt like the various characters were free to present their beliefs without overt bias coming from the author. This resulted in some really interesting and deep villains that you could sympathize with. In the end, i got the impression from the show that conflicts of this nature are never black and white. It's just about different people fighting for what they truly believe in and that's all there really is to it; it's completely up to us as individuals to judge them.
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2013-03-23, 19:34 | Link #185 | |||||
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Here's the thing - Either Sybil is acceptable, or it isn't. It's one or the other. Now, if you determine that Sybil is unacceptable, then you also have to determine when's the best time to attempt to bring it down. A few people here have essentially stated "Akane made the right decision at this time". With the specification "at this time", I think it's fairly implicit that people here aren't comfortable with the idea of Sibyl ruling Japan permanently. If so, then when's the right time to bring down Sybil? 2 years in the future? 5? 10? 20? What makes 5 years in the future better than now? Or what makes 10 years better? Or 20 years? I'm not seeing a concrete argument for favoring putting this off far into the future. In fact, I see many good reasons for toppling Sibyl as soon as possible. I laid some of them out here: Key Excerpt: 1. An entire generation of Japanese people that remember what life was like before Sybil. This generation could help younger generations adapt to a Sybil-less Japan as from their own personal memories they know of such a Japan and how it managed to function. 2. Former Lawyers, Judges, etc... that could be put back into their old roles and/or used to help train younger Lawyers, Judges. If Sybil continues for another twenty years or more, you lose these two considerable aids in transitioning to a Sybil-less Japan. Now, let me add a third practical reason for attempting to topple Sibyl as soon as possible: 3. You just had major riots that were centered around helmeted people overcoming the Sybil system, and basically going on a crime spree. People's confidence in Sibyl is probably now at the lowest point it's been at in several years, if not decades. To use a commonly cited analogy, the iron is hot now. So why not strike? People are no doubt still thinking critically about Sibyl, really questioning the effectiveness of it and the Psycho-Pass system. Yes, they're definitely very relieved that these riots are over and that stability has been restored, but they'd probably love to see "the government" take actions to assure that these sorts of riots won't happen again. There's a hunger for reassuring change right now that Akane could utilize if she decided to go for it now. But that hunger will die down as the months and years roll by without similar riots. Keeping my third point in mind, here's a revolution idea that I came up with. Quote:
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And it couldn't have been that bad, or guys like Tomomi and Kougami's old Professor wouldn't come off as critical of Sybil and longing for the past as they do. Quote:
Maybe Akane shouldn't just "turn off the power" in her final meeting with Sybil in this episode. But she definitely should be starting to sow the seeds of change right now, imo. I really think toppling Sybil is only going to get increasingly hard the longer Sybil remains in power.
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2013-03-23, 19:51 | Link #186 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
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Actually an ambiguous ending is really common just like in Inception where you have no idea what is the truth or Metal Gear Solid 2 where the player ended with lots of questions. The main conflict of Psycho-Pass' second half was Makishima's war on terror not the Sybil System. If society will improve or not depends on a next season or what the viewer thinks.
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2013-03-23, 20:16 | Link #187 |
Rock on ^^
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UAE
Age: 38
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What a shoddy ending!
I expected Makishima and Kogami to pair up and take down the Sibyl system. But, the Sibyl system still stands and has not been taken down. I expected Akane to tell everyone in MWSPB what the Sibyl system really is and take it down with Kogami. That didn't happen either. Absolutely shoddy ending. Better have a 2nd season to mop things up!
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2013-03-23, 20:28 | Link #188 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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And the series should stand on its own regardless of whether there might be a 2nd season or not.
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2013-03-24, 03:33 | Link #190 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Perhaps, as you observed, the older people who know what it is like to live under an older system would be able to rewrite laws and judicial procedures and have them implemented once again. But that's just talking about law enforcement here - it's implied that Sibyl manages not just law enforcement, but the entire society. i.e. food production, manufacturing, education etc etc. Are there enough people to keep all of that running? Given the extent to which Sibyl is integrated in society then, and the extreme reliance that most people have on it, try thinking it through: what actions can Akane take to bring down the system? As others have already said, if she tried to destroy the system, she'd be killed before she got very far. The same would probably happen if she tried to reveal its existence to the public: first, who would believe her? And once it was leaked, the system would know, and would probably arrange to have her disposed of. i.e. the so-called revolution you suggested would probably fail, and society would be much worse off. Hence, Akane has chosen to try to change things within the system rather than dying without actually being able to do anything. And whilst it is slow, the show demonstrates that change is indeed happening (Saiga talking with Kasei - and we don't know whether Akane had a hand in this; what Akane says to Mika). Furthermore, there's the fact that Sibyl wants to reveal itself to the public, and wants to prepare them to knowingly subject themselves to its judgement. But Akane doesn't believe that people will chose to remain subjected to that system once it is revealed. That's the option that she's betting on.
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Last edited by karice67; 2013-03-24 at 05:35. |
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2013-03-24, 05:33 | Link #192 | ||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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^ I had a suspicion when I finished the episode the first time, but by then, a couple of people had already pointed it out:
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2013-03-24, 08:20 | Link #193 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Telling everyone in MWSPB is a bad idea because it would create a chaos which then would spread outside and create a bigger riot/panic than helmets incident did. You can't just destroy Sibyl System without a plan. If system goes down now, who is to protect the citizens and keep the law? Dominators would be useless and there is not enough man power to stop everyone. You can't just destroy system without something to replace it. What Akane did was a right choice at this stage of time.
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2013-03-24, 08:24 | Link #194 | ||||||||||
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Realistically speaking, this is indeed inevitable. Which actually is part of the reason why I really question the value of putting this off for some unknown, future date. Changing a nation's form of government is always going to be messy. I don't see any good reason to think it's going to be any less messy 10 or 20 years from now than it would be if its implemented as soon as possible. In fact, I see many reasons to think it'll be harder and messier the longer you put it off. You either decide that Sybil is unacceptable and hence this messy transition period is worth it, or you don't decide that. Personally, I lean heavily towards the former. Quote:
But if you look at various scenes later on during the riots, I honestly felt that people adapted very quickly to the idea that they had to take matters into their own hands in order to deal with these helmeted criminals. People surprisingly went too far in meting out vigilante justice, but it shows that they still have some sense of personal agency and ability to adapt left in them. As ugly as those scenes were, it showed me that these people could live in a society without Sybil. They just need the right leadership to get them there. Quote:
If anything, this is a mark against Sybil. In any event, I don't see much indication that Sybil is particularly needed any more to handle hyper-oats production. The system seems entirely self-sustaining and self-perpetuating to me. There wasn't even a lone person needed at that entire massive food production factory, for crying out loud. Quote:
And if this is simply about ensuring that everything gets built on time, then honestly, that's just very basic bureaucrat work. Quote:
While I respect that you're a very good debater who often raises good points, I nonetheless can't help but find it amusing that you raise food production, manufacturing, and education, when honestly, these are all areas where Sybil has serious marks against it. I would argue that these three areas are three where Sibyl's flaws have been clearly displayed in the anime itself. Quote:
And I wonder how many people are like Kougami's old Professor, and would love to have a crack at shaping some young minds when they no longer have to worry so much about managing their students' potentially fragile psychological health. Quote:
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A Korean hacker and a team armed with some pipe bombs would likely be enough to do it. Quote:
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I want to be clear - I think this was a pretty good ending overall. But I really would have liked to have seen more from Akane. More signs that she's taking practical steps to truly combat Sybil.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2013-03-24 at 08:35. |
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2013-03-24, 09:15 | Link #195 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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To be honest, I don't think that this last scene was a very good idea.
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2013-03-24, 09:28 | Link #196 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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It doesn't explain how to wrest control away from the brains, and do so without fracturing society in the process. |
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2013-03-24, 09:38 | Link #197 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Akane never thought of the enforcers like dogs. That is just a difference between her and Gino. Heck I don't think Kougami thought of the enforcers as dogs when he was an inspector. It's of course good that Akane is teaching the new inspector to look at the enforcers as humans but it doesn't really change their position in the long run. Gino might be happier that he is an enforcer but again that is not a change of the system. Gino is happier because he no longer has to worry about his psychopass going down. This was a blessing to him because well the inevitable finally happened. The worrying was worse than the event for him. However Gino being an enforcer doesn't change his actual position for the better. I can argue that the other enforcers were not really stressed either. But still their choice stays the same go in a correction facility or become an enforcer. In the end Gino just has to accept this position in life.
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2013-03-24, 09:51 | Link #198 | |
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Here's my main issue with the last scene, and where I think it might be coming off as overly ambiguous to some viewers (such as Kirarakim and myself). I don't know if this scene is supposed to make me feel disturbed at how so little has changed from the very first episode (since this logically means Sybil is as in control as ever), or if it's supposed to give me the warm fuzzies given all of the sentimentality surrounding it. And before anybody says "It's supposed to do both!", that's quite the internal contradiction, imo.
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2013-03-24, 09:52 | Link #199 | |||||||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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I just don't understand what's so wrong with letting Akane and characters of similar stature to work their magic and give time for things to change gradually. I guess what I really admire about characters like Akane is that they see and believe in change that doesn't involve a bloody conflict, whereas you don't seem to believe that's possible at all. The only question is whether Akane can come up with a method for producing a better society that Sibyl can reason with or rather one that bypasses Sibyl's ambitions completely. Quote:
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My solution was quite simpler, actually: replace the current brains with less psychopathic ones. Saiga and Akane were perhaps perfect candidates for the job. Here I should mention that Akane's character greatly reminds me of the local Information Commissioner. She's done a marvelous job at protecting and raising questions regarding data and privacy protection rights in public. She's even barred access to Google Maps from surveying our streets because they weren't willing to employ basic privacy protection principles before entering the country. Truly, a marvelous bureaucrat. Quote:
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2013-03-24, 10:44 | Link #200 | ||||||||||
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We're not talking about corrupt politicians that you can simply vote out of power and replace with better and/or more forward-thinking leadership. Or specific bad policies that you can argue against, and win support for changing. We're talking about a ruling council of 250 disembodied brains. You either remove them from power, or you don't. Honestly, to me, it's like you and Kacrice67 are talking about a bad government with bad policies in a democratic country. Of course the slow game is best then. That's one of the most wonderful things about a democracies. At regular 4 or 5 year intervals, you can "throw the bums out" without needing to do anything particularly chaotic or violent to achieve it. Quote:
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I don't like saying it, but there really are some societal situations where it's either coup d'état or bust. The ruling regime gives you no other option. And frankly, that's the impression I get with Sibyl. Quote:
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Many think of Sibyl has a nice AI that makes their lives easier. That's it. Some others think of Sibyl in a decidedly negative way. This show has had plenty of Sibyl critics in its full character cast. Quote:
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The hyper-oats factory is working fine without any man power at all. Taking down Sybil isn't going to put the teachers of Japan all out of jobs. If you take down Sybil, it's not like all those teachers at, say, Oryo's all-girls school are just going to up and quit. You act like Sybil themselves are the teachers, the engineers, the building constructors, and the factory workers of Sibyl Japan. No, they're not. Sibyl just screens them and has Japan in its totalitarian grip. Quote:
Not to mention that plan is very risky even if Sybil says "yes". What if Akane and Saiga's brains get overwhelmed by the 250 brains that are already there? And you know, most people are pretty attached to their bodies. I honestly think very, very few people would voluntarily sign up to be part of the Sibyl Collective. I know I wouldn't.
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