Little Busters ~Refrain~ - Episode 1 Discussion / Poll

[ChampDream]

this was really goodd.
Yukio is pure win

[Deathscyther]

I'm glad that the Little Busters are back and the first episode of Refrain didn't disappoint!

As I expected, the second season starts with the pancake party. It was handled very well in my opinion. Everyone got their time to shine during the party. I thought it was really cute how Rin came to ask Riki about her pancake. You could see that she was quite tense and was hoping for a good reply. Maybe she believes the saying that you win a man's heart through his stomach. In the end Kyousuke replied as well, which activated her brocon mode.

I actually didn't expect them to jump into Anego's route right away. While I do find the way they're handling her route interesting, I have to say that the part with the bullies could have been handled a little bit better. It was a bit too short in my opinion. Because Kud and Komari were the victims instead of Riki, a lot of 'drama' was lost as well. The way that Anego took care of those bullies was great though. Don't mess with Anego or she'll really kill you.

The OP is really good. The song really fits the theme of Refrain and the scenes were really interesting as well. It's like they're trying to show us that Refrain will be darker than the first season.
I'm not really sure about the ED yet. I like the song and the characters look really good in the ED, but I'm not sure if this is the right song for some of the episodes that are coming. At least the start of the song is not as 'merry' as the start of Torch...

[Triple_R]

As an anime-only viewer, I honestly kind of liked the idea of Komari and Kud being the target of the bullying. In some ways, I think that works better than Riki being the target.

This is because...

1) It gets the full cast involved more.

2) Girls bullying girls and trying to keep guys out of it seems more natural to me.

3) It makes the antagonistic girls seem even more villainous. I mean, Komari and Kud are both innocent, sweet, little angels who are consistently kind to others. And they're not as emotionally tough as Riki (who is a nice guy himself, to be fair).

4) It makes Riki look a bit more heroic in that here he's trying to stop the bullies for the sake of his friends rather than being the bully victim himself.

5) Komari and Kud were the ones to actually cook the pancakes. They prepared the feast for Kurugaya, so now they get targeted. It arguably makes more sense than just picking a LB! member at random.


All of that being said, if they make this route explicitly romantic, then yeah, going with Komari/Kud as bully victims instead of Riki was the wrong call. But given how all the LB! anime routes to date had the romance sapped from them...


I have to say that these bullying girls are crazy. Putting aside how good/strong a fighter Kuruguya is, one of her friends is Haruka, who's sister is rather powerful and popular in this school. If I was Kuruguya, I'd be tempted to just threaten to pass that tape on to Kanata, and see if those bullying girls want to deal with her.

Having a door-destroying kick was more impressive to watch, though, certainly.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

As an anime-only viewer, I honestly kind of liked the idea of Komari and Kud being the target of the bullying. In some ways, I think that works better than Riki being the target.

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

Trust me, you only say that because you haven't seen how the VN handled the bullying. Most of the points you made can still be applied to Riki being the bullied one:
1) The VN didn't involve the whole cast for a good reason, only the guys knew and Riki kept it from everyone else to keep Kurugaya from feeling guilty and start moving away from the group;

2) Bullies target the weak, be it guy or girl;

3) OH they still look pretty damn villainous in the VN because the VN expanded on the bullying. In the anime we only really saw a very small thing and it only happened once...the VN's bullying went on for days, escalating from one to another;

4) Riki still looks pretty "heroic" in the VN, in a different way. The guys seeing Riki being bullied start to get more and more pissed off, threatening to take care of the problem themselves or tell Kurugaya but Riki knew that not only did they have no proof of the girls being responsible, if the guys handled it themselves then they risked the target shifting to Kud or Komari (like in the anime) who Riki feared would be far more hurt than he was. He "sacrificed" himself, enduring the bullying to protect his friends while trying to find evidence to use.

5) Riki wasn't pick at random in the VN, it was due to him being the closest to Kurugaya. This...we don't see as much in the anime, sadly. Riki would often skip some classes to go have tea with Kurugaya, he was often the target of her pranking but it was always playful fun. Honestly, while Kurugaya was in the LB group, Riki was basically the only one intereacting with her on a more regular basis aside from random group antics.

[erneiz_hyde]

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

Let me put a disclaimer first that I played the VN

Originally Posted by Randrak42

5) Riki wasn't pick at random in the VN, it was due to him being the closest to Kurugaya. This...we don't see as much in the anime, sadly. Riki would often skip some classes to go have tea with Kurugaya, he was often the target of her pranking but it was always playful fun. Honestly, while Kurugaya was in the LB group, Riki was basically the only one intereacting with her on a more regular basis aside from random group antics.

And this is exactly the reason why it wouldn't really makes sense if they target Riki in the anime. The anime makes it damn clear already that it's less about romance and more about friendship of the whole instead. I get that the VN is awesome and all, but we had a whole season of this already and I find it weird you still can't get over it and take off the goggles

[MCAL]

I think the point that matters in the end is "Does it make sense from anime only eyes?" Not "It isn't like the VN therefore it doesn't make sense?" An adaption adapts to certain conditions like length. That's why the Air movie (for example) works really well. And I think the bullying incident is fine anime wise. And this is from someone who has played the VN and Kurugaya's route is one of my favorites.

[Dark Faith]

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

I also found the whole bullying incident to be much better in the VN, but I think changing the focus from Riki to Kud and Komari worked better for the anime because, as erneiz_hyde puts it...

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

The anime makes it damn clear already that it's less about romance and more about friendship of the whole instead.

in the VN Riki and Yui-chan ( ) were a lot closer than they are in the anime, so Riki being the target makes sense.
A (welcome, in my opinion) side effect of this change in the anime is that the cast as a whole gets to participate in this event, even if ultimately I feel that it was handled far too quickly.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

5) Riki wasn't pick at random in the VN, it was due to him being the closest to Kurugaya. This...we don't see as much in the anime, sadly. Riki would often skip some classes to go have tea with Kurugaya, he was often the target of her pranking but it was always playful fun. Honestly, while Kurugaya was in the LB group, Riki was basically the only one intereacting with her on a more regular basis aside from random group antics.

Spoiler for Reply to comparison:

Well, like I wrote before, if they make Kuruguya's arc explicitly romantic, then yeah, they made the wrong call here with the bully victim change. Kuruguya saving her boyfriend from two old rivals that are bullying him a lot (after he tries to soldier through it in stoic silence) does indeed sound like a very compelling story to me.

I agree with you on your Points 3 and 4, but people keep saying that this arc is only 3 episodes (I'd honestly like to know where people are getting that info from, but whatever). So I guess they just don't have the time to stretch out the bullying to make it as effective as it was in the VN.

So overall, I don't doubt that you're right, that the bullying narrative was stronger in the VN. But given the lack of time, and the (presumptive) lack of clear romance, I think switching to Komari/Kud makes sense.

Thanks for the VN info, though. At least I see where VN players are coming from now.

[Randrak42]

I can't take off my goggles since it's Anego's route...nobody messes with my Anego Route!!!!

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

No but seriously, I get that changes have to be made since the anime has taken a different direction when it comes to the romance and I assure you that were I not a VN player I would have nothing but good things to say about the anime as is. I'm just not one of those people that can see an adaptation of something and not help but feel that it needs to be as faithful as possible to the original source. I stopped watching LB anime after the Komari route and the only reason I'm back watching it is simple, Anego's route (Anego and her route were for me the two best parts of the VN) . In a way it's weird since I knew they would change it but I just had to watch it.

Anyway, considering the time constraints and the direction of the anime (no romance) it makes sense that they would change some things...but I still only see one reason for not making Riki the bullying target and that's because on the short run and looking for a quick effect on the viewer, having innocent little Kud and Komari as targets is the best choice. It enrages the viewer more with just a single scene, which was needed in order to fit it all into a single episode. Still...I can't help but feel that this move underplays Riki achievements when compared to the VN (there are many other moments like this in the previous season). I'm not going to start another argument about the lack of romance since I've talked about it to death........but taking away the romance and the relationship with the girls has really just made Riki 80% less awesome compared to the anime simply due to the things he doesn't get to do or say.

That said...I'll keep watching because it's Anego's route and for better or worse..........it's fucking Anego's route.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

I'm not going to start another argument about the lack of romance since I've talked about it to death........but taking away the romance and the relationship with the girls has really just made Riki 80% less awesome compared to the anime simply due to the things he doesn't get to do or say.

Spoiler for Reply to comparison:

Oh, I'm totally with you there. Little Busters! (including first season) has really made me rethink my previous preference for unified over omnibus when it comes to VN adaptations. I think most, if not all, of the LB! anime routes would have been better with clear-cut romance in them. And yeah, I'm already getting the vibe that Anego's route would similarly be better with romance.

But oh well, the route is off to a pretty kickass start anyway.

I do see why LB! is so popular as a VN - Key really went a bit extra hardcore with this VN, given the brutal conflicts in most of them.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Spoiler for Reply to comparison:

Oh, I'm totally with you there. Little Busters! (including first season) has really made me rethink my previous preference for unified over omnibus when it comes to VN adaptations. I think most, if not all, of the LB! anime routes would have been better with clear-cut romance in them.

Spoiler for Reply to comparison:

The best compromise then would be to write the romance from the Visual Novel into the anime, and just have Riki date everyone from the Little Busters team. No drama here, Riki's harem is a very understanding bunch of girls and are okay with everyone on the baseball team being his girlfriend. Either that or Riki just leads each individual girl on for a while by going through the same romantic motions he did in the VN, before ultimately telling them "Nah, it was nice playing House for a while but I'm not ready to settle down." That way the romance could be preserved while still having a unified story. I should be an anime writer. I'm just kidding

Good start to Refrain. The original was classic in its own way, but the sequel should prove to have a much more substantial and emotional story. The opening and ending songs are good; slightly disappointed that there won't be a new one come Winter 2014 since JC Staff didn't roll that way with the original, but oh well. I loved Kyosuke jamming on his guitar about how the Little Busters 'rule.' It will also be nice to have the sillier version of Kengo around the whole season, since he underwent the change late into the first.

[ThereminVox]

As obnoxious as the narcolepsy speech still is, at least the implications of him forgetting a previous relationship with Kuruguya potentially takes it into meaningful-echo territory.

"It's called a change-over: The movie goes on, and no one in the audience has any idea."

Also, seven languages? My, what a talented tongue she has.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Spoiler for Reply to comparison:

The best compromise then would be to write the romance from the Visual Novel into the anime, and just have Riki date everyone from the Little Busters team. No drama here, Riki's harem is a very understanding bunch of girls and are okay with everyone on the baseball team being his girlfriend. Either that or Riki just leads each individual girl on for a while by going through the same romantic motions he did in the VN, before ultimately telling them "Nah, it was nice playing House for a while but I'm not ready to settle down." That way the romance could be preserved while still having a unified story. I should be an anime writer. I'm just kidding

Spoiler for Reply to comparison:

lol Maybe "Little Busters!" could have become a front name for an actual harem.

But in all seriousness, I get why the romance had to go for these routes, it's just a bit unfortunate.

[Team Rocket Elite]

Episode 1 started on May 13th. After a while, they start covering the date on the clock with a convenient shadow. However, the clock in this episode shows June 20th. So the entire series so far has taken place over 39 days. I'm tempted to check if they've explicitly shown more than 38 day to night transitions. Considering this is based off a visual novel, there's nothing they can really do about this but I just found this funny.

[ReinhartX]

the op is very good! total opposite from the happy one from S1.....
didnt play the VN but the first episode is definitely a good start

however im just bothered they use the same old piano soundtracks in the episode again =/

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by Team Rocket Elite

Episode 1 started on May 13th. After a while, they start covering the date on the clock with a convenient shadow. However, the clock in this episode shows June 20th. So the entire series so far has taken place over 39 days. I'm tempted to check if they've explicitly shown more than 38 day to night transitions. Considering this is based off a visual novel, there's nothing they can really do about this but I just found this funny.

Do it. I dare you.

Anyway... speaking of Kurugaya, I sort of understand what changed to make it fit the anime. Kurugaya, unlike in the VN, speaks to ALL the LB! gang constantly, so it makes sense... however, backing up Riki kinda works too, you know?

[Zankoku12]

The problem I have about the bullying part is how conveniently everything is.
Suginami just happened to "conveniently" stand there for Riki to "conveniently" sees her and he also "conveniently" the only one to chase after her(Riki stormed out of the room and no one bothered,really ? LOL) then after 2 or 3 lines or so he just "conveniently" stand in the corner and looking blankly when Kurugaya taking care of the bullies.After that,they "conveniently" off running together like "yeah,it totally me and Riki problem now" which defeating the whole "let's bullying the girls to show how deep their friendships are !" earlier.

Spoiler for Reference to scene from the game:

...Or maybe I'm just pissed that I didn't get to see Masato being framed for he door....

[Natsurin]

Originally Posted by Zankoku12

Spoiler for Reference to scene from the game:

...Or maybe I'm just pissed that I didn't get to see Masato being framed for the door....

Spoiler for Reference to scene from the game:

I liked the Masato getting framed scene, but does liking the Kyousuke hurrying Riki and Kurugaya scene makes me a bad person?

I would do anything for more Kyousuke screenshots.

[Leo_Otaku]

Loved that opening!!! Was really awesome. I also really loved how they opened up the episode with all the good stuff! Some of the stuff Clannad severely lacked in the anime. I really wonder how they will handle Angeo's route. I could also tell production levels were up too. I hope we get kick the can later!

[Ceral]

Must agree the openers a winner, got a little bit of wonder and mysteriousness in it, lots of beautiful contrasting images. I wish it lasted longer.

First impression of the ED wasn't too bad, definitely didn't think it was fail like Torch. Just a very innocuous theme that doesn't bring too much attention to itself.