Genshin Impact

[AnimeFangirl]

There's a big gap between "setting expectations too high for anniversaries will cause problems in future" and "ignore everyone until they complain." Requests for a free 5-star in Genshin are quite unrealistic, but a free 4-star is more than reasonable because they've done it before.

If a special anniversary event is too much to ask for, an anniversary skin, anniversary namecards, congratulatory messages and gifts from the characters in the mail, etc. are all things Mihoyo could easily do. This isn't their first game, and even if it is there are many other examples from other games to follow.

Having said all that, I'm not participating in any of this anniversary drama. I just want to play a game in peace. I hope all this blows over ASAP.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

A lot of this (maybe not all) was just normal moderation in line with the rules against spamming, and honestly no different than we mods would probably do here if people started that kind of mob.

That's the very reason why I used quotes there, because the vast majority of the time, it wasn't censorship. However, it is worth noting that there were cases, especially on Hoyolab, were legit concerns were posted and immediately deleted without much explanation.
Needless to say, since people only have the feedback section, which has really unprofessional replies (vague statements littered with emoji), people just use social platforms hoping for an echo chamber effect. And with the few cases of actual unreasonable post suppression, the mob effect naturally concluded that the majority of the posts were removed for bogus reasons as result.
The fact that some mods (particularly the official discord) have a very flippant or passive aggressive attitude just add oil to the fire, if not gasoline considering the context.

Originally Posted by Sheba

I dunno, from a dev pov, it's a matter to not give too much or they'd have to raise the next ones in the next anniversaries. Just a reminder that FGO players in JP didnt get a free SSR until late in the game's life, and it was mostly limited to those who were already in the drawing pool (so no free Jalter). Also they still dont have a pity system, which means those 100ish + 100ish (from livestreams) quartz may not even give you anything for show (I speak from personal experience).

Originally Posted by GDB

However, they have had a guaranteed SSR every anniversary, and every New Years (except the first, I believe, since it was barely half a year old at that point). And those usually contain limited units, though it's hard to zero in on the one you want specifically.

Further, FGO's first anniversary lowered the pull cost by 25%, gave out 20 free pulls, and introduced grailing. Plus the other minor things like materials, half AP for a while, increased level up chances, etc.

And note that was 5 years ago.

The problem is that the context is entirely different. Honestly, the rewards were subpar, but it was, as I stated before, multiple factors that just made the situation explodes. A free 5* from the permanent banner doesn't mean much if the balance and every other issues were fixed to begin with. And even if they aren't, there are much more beneficial rewards than this, such as multiple billet boxes, free solvent or boss materials, free fragile resins etc.
On top of that, people should stop comparing gacha except if they are remotely similar in term of business model. A SSR of a certain game doesn't have the same weight as receiving a 5* in this game, and this is particularly true for the likes of FGO and GBF. Same goes for the total amount of free pulls, because let's face it, some games have their gacha pool so bloated that obtaining so many rolls lose entirely its meaning (and you FGO players absolutely know the terror of F2P wasting their annual SQ stock, yet ultimately missing the RU character they wanted, thanks to the absence of actual pity choice).

But I personally think that this situation wouldn't have happened in the first place if Mihoyo did a proper separation of the Moonphase event, the concert and the Anniversary, especially given their popularity despite all the issues and concerns they got for several patches back to back.

Originally Posted by Sheba

MHY is completely not without blame, I mean giving 100 primos to winners of fanart contest, when those artists could easily commission their time and skill for 4 digits sums? Seriously. And yes, the silence on the developer side also not helped. (also heard that on the China side, there is ongoing holidays. It's like having Blizzard having a riot on the player side on thanksgiving).

1st October is a national holiday, but they definitely could see people already complaining left and right few days before the anniversary. On the day of the anniversary, hell broke loose to the point it would make sense to actually make a statement. Even if Chinese companies are not prone to public apologies, not reassuring the fanbase on that day or the very next day was a fatal mistake, doubly so with the damage control 2 days after where people were quick to realize the following points: 1) no apologies or statement addressing the situation 2) they are refurbishing a paid bundle.

But the collateral damage from the community's anger, review bombing of unrelated games AND harassment of people like voice actors, is a taint that will paint the community as manchildren for the years to come. Well, on the global (Europe and Americas) side. I just dont know about CN and JP.

As far as I can tell, CN were really not impressed by any stretch of imagination. While their role wasn't as active as the western fanbase, they definitely aligned to them.
JP fanbase is probably the only one that was pretty chill about this. Most are playing for fun, are used with gacha in general, but also are enjoying the actual anniversary mood the JP branch is establishing, such as seiyuu interviews and whatnot.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I dunno, from a dev pov, it's a matter to not give too much or they'd have to raise the next ones in the next anniversaries. Just a reminder that FGO players in JP didnt get a free SSR until late in the game's life.

To add about FGO, there's actually communication to why the first director didn't give SSR Ticket.

First director, person who once responsible to Part I and Epic of Remnant, Shiokawa, once interviewed about it.
He explained the reason why he's adamant of not giving SSR Ticket until his last day handling FGO CMIIW is because multiple surveys got 90%+ playerbase will use said ticket to grab Waver/Jeanne/Tamamo (a.k.a meta units of his era). He didn't like it because he wanted people to pick SSR they actually like rather than meta units; he aware people interest for SSRs thus reducing summoning cost and increased level cap introduced earlier than he originally planned as compromise.

This response got no backlash because JP playerbase during said time fully understand that Shiokawa is person who loves low rarity units run as he often talk about it on live gathering, and actually encourages people to not narrow-minded only playing high rarity units.

Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl

Requests for a free 5-star in Genshin are quite unrealistic, but a free 4-star is more than reasonable because they've done it before.

I guess part of SSR ticket demand happened is because they do have SSR Ticket in Honkai aside of looking at other games anniversary ...
Whether they aware of fact said ticket released only after powercreep ensure SSR available to pick won't be optimal pick for future leaderboard contents is unknown;
I remember my friend said that some SR fairly influential in this game, sometimes posting meme about their usefulness; more reason to not risking too much from giving SR ticket if I'm one of Genshin higher-ups.

[Look43]

Originally Posted by Tactics

I guess part of SSR ticket demand happened is because they do have SSR Ticket in Honkai aside of looking at other games anniversary ...
Whether they aware of fact said ticket released only after powercreep ensure SSR available to pick won't be optimal pick for future leaderboard contents is unknown;
I remember my friend said that some SR fairly influential in this game, sometimes posting meme about their usefulness; more reason to not risking too much from giving SR ticket if I'm one of Genshin higher-ups.

Yes and no. In this particular case of "SSR ticket", as Klashikari said, most people are requesting a "ticket" from the initial pool of 5* units, the standard banner. So the idea isn't "let me take any unit I want". Your guessing still applies, cause said units still have their value as 5*, but people are (maybe unconsciously) respecting the concept of limited units. So not necessarily because they want the meta-breaking units.


That being said, most of the requests are just to form something that could make "a meaningful reward", cause at the end of the day, free pulls and free units are the classic rewards.
They could've done different things, but there's hardly anything in-game related to the anniversary.
No Anniversary banner, no bonifications/double drops, etc, only this unheard-of glider that sounded like damage control, and after the anniversary.

Add this to 1 year of complaints about end-game ,resin(stamina) and lack of communication, to easily see this anni fiasco as the last straw.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Tactics

This response got no backlash because JP playerbase during said time fully understand that Shiokawa is person who loves low rarity units run as he often talk about it on live gathering, and actually encourages people to not narrow-minded only playing high rarity units.

His explanation is borderline disingenous because not everyone always play meta. Additionally, they could simply make a ticket with a set of arbitrary selected servants if they were really afraid of that, but it is more likely they didn't want to lose revenues. Honestly, the very fact a member of a gacha staff claims they want "people to enjoy the characters they like" yet don't provide any guarantee to get X or Y character (because god forbids people who like characters who are coincidentally meta too!) is laughable.
In any case, that's the very reason why I believe comparison with other gacha like FGO or even Honkai doesn't make any sense.
Right now, Genshin meta is gravitating around 4* characters and specific limited characters. While I'd rather have resources and 1/2 resin campaign, it would be really easy to quell the outrage with a dumb "pick a character among the launch 4* and/or 5*" ticket and be done with it.

And come to the think of it, lantern rite event was not only more generous in term of resources and primos, but also offered any 4* liyue character which was a huge boon back then. This obviously dwarves the "anniversary" event even more as result. Granted, Moonchase event should be dedicated to the Chinese Autumn Festival, so being less generous than the Chinese New Year event makes sense. However, since there is nothing else for 2.1, players have no choice but naturally consider Moonchase as both the autumn festival event and the anniversary event.

But as I said before, that's not really what the playerbase needs. Instead, Mihoyo should acknowledge the playerbase and addresses their worries and requests. If they keep relying on character hypes and whatnot, the game will degenerate into something closer to Honkai or even worse, which will most likely kill its playerbase in less than a year.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

But as I said before, that's not really what the playerbase needs. Instead, Mihoyo should acknowledge the playerbase and addresses their worries and requests. If they keep relying on character hypes and whatnot, the game will degenerate into something closer to Honkai or even worse, which will most likely kill its playerbase in less than a year.

They may not want to do this for all sorts of marketing reasons, but I really think they just need to slow down the release cycle a little bit more to give themselves a bit of time to spend looking back not just looking forward. I think the 6-week cycle they're trying to stick with is fraying at the seams, and the lack of time to address feedback is a symptom of that. Now that they have a larger pool of events and characters in the back-catalog that they could repeat, I think they should consider moving to an 8-week cycle. To make that work they'd probably also need to add some additional end-game contents that are repeatable and varied (some have suggested procedural dungeons designed for co-op or solo challenges, for instance). If each patch had one major event, one re-run event, and bunch of minor events, in addition to on-going end-game content, I think it would give them a bit more buffer to smooth out their development pipeline. As it stands now, they're just very un-even in their output, not to mention allowing long-standing complaints to fester.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that staying this course will kill the playerbase on the whole, but they'll definitely burn veteran players out of the end-game grind unless there's more to do and some of the long-time complaints are addressed.

[Marcus H.]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that staying this course will kill the playerbase on the whole, but they'll definitely burn veteran players out of the end-game grind unless there's more to do and some of the long-time complaints are addressed.

Any changes they will implement will cause players to leave. Just the change to an 8-week cycle will attract complains of "content drought" and all kinds of exaggerations.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Any changes they will implement will cause players to leave. Just the change to an 8-week cycle will attract complains of "content drought" and all kinds of exaggerations.

In the end, I feel like they have sort of embraced the fact that, for some people, this will just be a "seasonal" game (play when the new region comes out then go on break for a while), which is partly why they loaded these first two patches with new characters (and next patch will have re-runs). No matter what they did or didn't do, I feel like we were approaching a natural "break point" for a lot of people with the main Inazuma content being done. The novelty of the new region has worn off so people were contemplating going back to the normal grind, and that's partly why all these complaints rise back up to the surface. Frankly, for some people in might just be healthier to take a break and just come back later to see if/how things have improved. The sort of fatalistic "kill its playerbase" is an exaggeration -- every game has its ebbs and flows. (And even for some crazy reason their playerbase sees a precipitous drop and they can do nothing to stop it, they've got enough of a warchest that they keep things going for as long as they want with the group that remains.)

In the end, I'd still prefer to see them go that route anyway if it can give a bit of breathing space to their team. It's a marathon not a sprint, so to me more important that they not burn their staff out.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Any changes they will implement will cause players to leave. Just the change to an 8-week cycle will attract complains of "content drought" and all kinds of exaggerations.

At the end every game will have their loyal customers.

Since last year FGO considered by several Japanese discussion board among less friendly games for new players but if you paid and love time sink that not necessarily translate to better power level. But look at it now, its not like its dying. There were people proud of exclusivity of 0.7% SSR rate to the point some of it trashed on pity system and do love 1 Paid SQ 1 Summon per day gacha system.

Honkai is also like that, normally one will be quitting when Mihoyo pull back-to-back Limited banner alongside resource drought for sake of Genshin. Turned out not really, cash flow still running strong to the point disparity between servers caused whale from other servers moved to main server; zero qualm of restarting everything because tackling leaderboard with explosive waifu in action is good.

IMO this event will decide what Genshin real playerbase is, followed by direction.
If resident that willing to pay and live with current game quality prove to be stronger than seasonal or F2P, I kinda expecting some PVP site afterwards.
That's the simplest, surefire method to solve questionable gameplay design, lack of contents while also encouraging people to spend for characters ignoring leak.

[AnimeFangirl]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Any changes they will implement will cause players to leave. Just the change to an 8-week cycle will attract complains of "content drought" and all kinds of exaggerations.

A game that starts to re-run events and stretches out the update cycle after only a year in operation will rightly prompt concerns about its future. "Out of ideas already?"

It would be better for them to stretch releases out instead. For example, one island per Inazuma update = enough fodder for 6 updates. Make the islands a little bigger, add more events and quests, leave the fans wanting more.

[Sheba]

Oh dear god, no pvp please. The present player toxicity is enough.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I wouldn't go so far as to say that staying this course will kill the playerbase on the whole, but they'll definitely burn veteran players out of the end-game grind unless there's more to do and some of the long-time complaints are addressed.

The reason why I believe it is alarming is that the game is already in a state where even the non gacha veteran are starting to get bored because Inazuma arguably didn't bring enough content to sustain several patches. We know there is only 1 island left, and since the Chasm is still in limbo (along with Dendro element as a whole), it is no surprise people are wondering if the game will be enjoyable in the coming weeks or months, especially if we have absolutely no estimation for Sumeru.
The game has flourished exceptionally well over the year, but it is exactly for that reason they need to keep that momentum, since the playerbase will now have a more define "shape" so to speak. If they don't do some major changes, player retention and attracting new players will be drastically affected by that, especially given the pretty bad PR recently.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Any changes they will implement will cause players to leave. Just the change to an 8-week cycle will attract complains of "content drought" and all kinds of exaggerations.

It is the complete opposite. The game has been pretty stale when it comes to its formula which is basically daly commissions, resins, abyss and that's it. There is little to no incentive to explore the open world. There is absolutely nothing encouraging players to use their characters once they managed to clear abyss with 36*. Even the progression curve is extremely flat because you can't really get enough resource to grind your entire roster, let alone gear them with artifacts.

We got events on the way, but aside of Dragonspine and the Archipelago, nothing really stood out and we got filler after fillers (their obsession with half baked festivals is something that cannot be overstated). Honestly, unless you play really casually like less than 1h a day, there is a major content drought so no need for quotations at all. Each medium/small patch content can be cleared within like 2-4h without trying to rush it, and they still force some timegating in ALL of their events to prolong something that could be done within 1-3 days into 2-3 weeks.

If they can address the content drought, then a 8 week cycle is acceptable, moreso if the changes become actually noticeable when it comes to daily activities and gameplay. Right now, the moment you are done with the ongoing events, which are really lightweight compared to other gacha games, you have absolutely nothing to do thanks to the scarce resin.

[Marcus H.]

relentlessflame and Tactics: Good points. Anyway, I'm curious to hear first-hand insights into what they think is "the average Genshin player", but I guess people would be in full denial mode if they did deliver such a look into the community thus far.

AnimeFanGirl: A lot of people have been asking for a rerun of Chalk Prince and Unreconciled Stars, so I don't think people would think too much of reruns as "them running out of ideas". Plus what people want seem to align towards permanent endgame content than events. Personally, six updates taking place in one region is one way to burn out people, and Moonchase taking place in Liyue and Mondstadt was a welcome change of scenery after spending a lot of time in Inazuma.

Klashikari: A content "drought" is no issue to me as long as it allows me to do other things like building my other characters (I already have a roster of at least 60/70 characters), doing other things like decorating my teapot, or doing simple resource gathering in Genshin while playing other gacha games. In fact, I'm glad that there are lulls in content because I can actually take a break compared to other games that won't even give you a chance to do normal farming between major events.

[Klashikari]

In my case, it is exactly because the normal grind is so minimalistic that the game content has been pretty subpar to me outside of major patches with their respective events.
You get only 180 resin per day, meaning that at AR55+ you either get 540k Mora, approximately 1m worth of exp in writs, 10 ascension items from a boss OR approximately 13 artfiacts. Considering how much it is required for one single character, it can takes several weeks to build just 1 character. Because of this, expanding your options is really a long effort that pretty much worsen the monotonous daily routine if you can't even have more variety. Meanwhile, non resin content is absolutely lacking. As I said before, there is nothing much to do aside of the daily commissions and the abyss.

With all of those factors combined together, you just need like 30-60min per day (15 if you spend resin into bosses or condensed resin) and that's about it. Frankly, that's exactly that kind of format that I hate the most, because it feels like a job. Instead of playing the game to have fun or build my characters stronger, I do menial tasks every days for prolonged periods of time. It becomes pretty much identical to your average gacha games which is a shame considering the actual qualities of the game.

Some people like you are fine with this, since you are spreading thin in term of games and whatnot, but I strongly believe that "more stuff to do" can only help the community at large. Any casual gamers can simply pace themselves and do as much as they usually do without burning out (Some people who started day one are still around AR40 so it isn't like they need to rush or grind everything). But for people who are more interested than doing their daily routine, it gradually becomes a chore since they have been doing the same routine over and over again.

It is a matter of balancing things right. Limited events content is not really the issue. It is the resin and non resin content that fail to take advantage of the game strengths and simply alienate it into your common denominator gacha game. As an example of extra activities, if the game had a rogue-like type of dungeon with rewards such as artifact fodder/mora/exp, that would be nice and encourage players to do a bit more with their entire roster. At least -something- that deviates from the dailies nonsense.

[AnimeFangirl]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Some people like you are fine with this, since you are spreading thin in term of games and whatnot, but I strongly believe that "more stuff to do" can only help the community at large. Any casual gamers can simply pace themselves and do as much as they usually do without burning out (Some people who started day one are still around AR40 so it isn't like they need to rush or grind everything). But for people who are more interested than doing their daily routine, it gradually becomes a chore since they have been doing the same routine over and over again.

It's likely that the silent majority is fine with the way things are. No game can ever be all things to all people and whatever that "more stuff to do" turns out to be will get stale eventually. Then the "gimme more" crowd will start crying out again. The "gimme more" crowd needs to migrate towards a "gimme more" game or take a hiatus until several more continents are released.

BTW, I'm in the middle. I don't have much time to play so I don't mind short sessions, but having a few more things to do when I can log in on the weekends would be nice.

[Marina2]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/uw-b54nYqi8

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

I have no idea what is going on since I don't play the game, but someone (like the good old internet always does) went about mentioning the ruckus on the Azur Lane reddit, so I did get to burn some time watching the weird show going on.
They say Japanese players like to complain, so official Youtube videos tend to close comments to the JP videos, but I always felt that the Western audience was worse when they turn into a mob. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not Western lol. Most EN players are SEA I bet. No one complains like an entitled or offended SEA person. Like please.....FGO's first anniversary was the same, does no one remember?


But true facts though, for how horrible the Genshin fanbase is, Mihoyo themselves are pretty crap with their PR also

[Sheba]

Man, someone in MHY staff sure looooove Tartaglia.

[relentlessflame]

The concert was really excellent - about 1 hour 45 minutes long and a nice mix between orchestra style and modern style. Ended with a "to be continued" at the offline concert in Shanghai (date TBD due to the pandemic) which will be rebroadcast worldwide.

I realize for a lot of people they didn't count this as an "anniversary event," but to me anyway (as someone who's partly here for the music to begin with), I expected a lot and still came away satisfied. (Some big tracks to come in Part 2, so should be good.)

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Personally, six updates taking place in one region is one way to burn out people, and Moonchase taking place in Liyue and Mondstadt was a welcome change of scenery after spending a lot of time in Inazuma.

I'd be more inclined to agree if the game hadn't spent 10 months already in Liyue and Mondstadt.

Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl

It's likely that the silent majority is fine with the way things are. No game can ever be all things to all people and whatever that "more stuff to do" turns out to be will get stale eventually. Then the "gimme more" crowd will start crying out again. The "gimme more" crowd needs to migrate towards a "gimme more" game or take a hiatus until several more continents are released.

The only people who would reject "more content" are the kind of people who think the company is being generous by making the game f2p, not realizing that they make more money by being f2p than if they weren't.