2009-01-23, 22:17 | Link #821 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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2009-01-23, 22:23 | Link #822 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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They don't NEED to do that. They already get what they want whenever they want. |
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2009-01-23, 22:27 | Link #823 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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And Palestinians are parasites now eh? would you say that of almost everyone else in the third world then? Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2009-01-23 at 22:40. |
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2009-01-23, 22:59 | Link #824 | |||||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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Oh, and just for as a little note, check Hamas' support levels in the Gaza strip right now - certainly not a majority anymore. Also, 76% of Palestinians supported extending the ceasefire back in December. Quote:
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Sums up why most people don't bother protesting China right there - although protesting for a ban on trade with China could be interesting, since that actually would apply pressure. Second, Israel gets targetted for the same reason people protest US agression abroad: because people think western countries should be against such barbarianism, and believe that western countries will actually respond to such criticism - which is probably a poor assumption. Third, I criticize Israeli aggression because I get annoyed when people try and write it off as acceptable - something I don't see a lot of people doing for China and the like. It's especially annoying when the response I get to criticisms like, say, bombing police because they might fight for Hamas, people just go and start talking about how this is all a defensive action. Yeah, I'm sure the sizeable Arab-Canadian community agrees with your assessment of their efforts to try and do something for their kinsmen. Not the response I wanted to make to this point, but I like not getting banned, so... Quote:
I doubt the level of force applied in this conflict was necessary to get Hamas to agree to another ceasefire. Quote:
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2009-01-23, 23:08 | Link #825 | |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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As for they don't NEED to do that...I'm done with you. Way to miss the historical reference. I'm not getting through to you, that's clear, so I'm done with you. |
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2009-01-23, 23:17 | Link #826 | |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2) Well we can just wait and see what happens to Hamas and if the Palestinians are capable of getting rid of them. 3) Israel has every right to see to its defense. So it has every right to cut off that which will strengthen its enemy. If the Palestinians don't like it, they can try to fight it, but if they do so, should expect to be fought back the way Israel wants. 4) The west not supporting barbarism? Hah! We support what WORKS, not some silly-ass ideal that'll put our people in harm's way . 5) Well it's not so much that Israeli aggression is acceptable so much as it's RELATIVELY acceptable. When Hamas is trying to kill Israeli civilians wholesale, it's definitely acceptable, since at that point, all bets are off. That's like someone going for a low-blow in a fight. I don't care if they're one hundred pounds lighter and half as strong. If they go for a low blow, you have the right to do anything you want to them. 6) Arab-Canadian? ARAB-Canadian. Nuff said? I'm secure in the fact that I'm anti-Arab and have preconceptions that get proven wrong on a case by case basis. I wonder if you're secure in the fact that there may be thousands to millions among that community that are of the same mindset the other way. 7) Don't want to get banned? You and me both. 8) A stranger's life is worth nothing. Tell me, if you had to pay a penny a day for every impoverished soul on the planet, would you do so? Of course not. And I wouldn't blame you, either. 9) Hamas never maintains a cease-fire for long. So this attack was meant to make them go back and lick their wounds rather than attacking again. It's not only militaristic, but psychological. As to who asked me if I think every third world country is a parasite: If it gets more foreign aid than it adds value to the world, then... Completely and absolutely are they parasites. By the very definition of the word. |
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2009-01-23, 23:21 | Link #827 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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It's not even about that. The general problem with his line of argument, with regards to this, is that plenty of people protested China. Have we already forgotten the Olympic torch run disruptions? The people who flew to China just to unfurl a "Free Tibet" banner in Tiananmen Square? The boycott campaigns and the "Genocide Olympics" banners? It was a big deal.
And now that the spotlight is on Israel, it's "just anti-Semitism?" Seriously, what do you expect when you carry out a military campaign in 2008/2009 that kills 1,200+ people, a large chunk of them women and children? That the world would simply turn a blind eye and chant, "go Israel?" The liberal left would not be the liberal left if it did that. The reaction (protests) is consistent with what I expected from a major offensive in the highly visible Gaza area. Equally consistent is how ineffective the protests generally were. It's possible that the age of liberal protest movements is ending. |
2009-01-23, 23:57 | Link #829 | |||||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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Second, I'm still skeptical that this conflict actually puts us any closer to peace in region. The moral course of action is the one that brings this conflict to a close fastest with the least bloodshed. Quote:
As for Arabs... I don't like a lot of attitudes held in Arab countries, but most Arab-Canadians have a pretty westernized mindset, so I don't care much. Quote:
Personally, I'd be careful of assuming that regular psychology applies to extremists. For them, the fight is more important than winning, so I suspect their downtime will be more related to when they feel the need to prove their "manhood" again rather than rational calculations. |
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2009-01-24, 00:51 | Link #830 | ||||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Urban warfare is an infantryman's worst nightmare. There are far too many rooftops, balconies, stairwells and street corners to monitor, hence the need for as many pairs of eyes on the ground as possible. Even then, casualties are usually expected to be very high — which is part of what makes the Israelis' tactics remarkable in this case, because their reported casualties are so low. That's probably partly because the Hamas weren't that strong in the first place, but also very probably because the IDF has implemented more effective combat tactics since Lebanon. From the political point of view, the IDF proved that it has very large balls, and that it isn't afraid to swing them. Mission accomplished on that front. Quote:
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But that's all moot now. The deed has already been done, so now we have consequences to deal with. We reap what we sow. Quote:
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2009-01-24, 01:45 | Link #832 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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1) I criticize Israel because I expect first world governments to actually listen to criticism, whereas Hamas is a bunch of monsters and a lost cause. I put the onus on Israel to do what I think is right because I honestly think Hamas will never do so. 2) I also keep posting criticisms because people keep saying the IDF's level of force and selection of targets was appropriate, and that this conflict will produce desirable outcomes. I disagree on these points. Has anyone disagreed with the consensus that Hamas is bad? Hard to debate with only one side unless you're very good at playing devil's advocate. Oh, and I never defend Hamas attacks on civilians. I do, however, explain the driving mindset behind the such attacks and extrapolate likely results. |
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2009-01-24, 01:53 | Link #833 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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See this is the thing...nobody ever gives Israel a reason to listen to any criticism, ever.
America will never change its rabid pro-Israel policy stance, which is a good thing, and the rest of the world doesn't give a damn about the Jewish people. The end. If people want Israel to listen, they should provide it with incentives to do so. |
2009-01-24, 02:07 | Link #835 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Okay... I think it's definitely time for a 2.8 here, at least for a little while.
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Conversation over. |
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