Claymore Chapter 120

[Teresa4ever]

Originally Posted by Nixl

I was pleasantly surprised when Teresa died and that is when I truly picked the story up.

You shouldn't have been pleasantly surprised by Teresa's death. The correct reaction should have been something like being Horrified, shocked, depressed, distressed, or tramatized because that was probably the saddest part of the entire Manga. That hit me harder than anything else in the story.

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by Teresa4ever

You shouldn't have been pleasantly surprised by Teresa's death. The correct reaction should have been something like being Horrified, shocked, depressed, distressed, or tramatized because that was probably the saddest part of the entire Manga. That hit me harder than anything else in the story.

Simple really,

This is what Teresa fans saw.

Spoiler for BA ZAT:

This is what I saw,

Spoiler for the Professional:

Every time I thought about Teresa I think of Leon. After the special chapter where Yagi decided for a fight instead of Teresa/Irene backstory I see her as,

Spoiler for powerlevels:

Jokes aside, I can see why people love Teresa, but I've seen the cold protagonist who finds warmth through the innocence of a child many man times before. Hey, could be worse, I could have put Stephen Nathan's face over Teresa....what a good idea.

[rafael1932]

Funny because it is clare that reminds me dragon ball z, not Teresa( not saying that people may be right after thinking twice on this subject). Everyone forgets that Teresa could be a cold bitch too. Only in the very end she becomes butter. Still I do like how she looks down on others in the end of her battles. Maybe it is because of this that I don’t see her as a dragon ball z character

About chapters I do like every single one from the beginning. Ok there is something here and there but it is rare and almost pointless to rant because the story is so good. Only after miria started to attack the org is that the story starts to suck hard. It is not only miria but everything. I can find issues here and there. The best thing is to say that the only good part is when the claymores rebelled against the org and roxane / cassandra past. The rest is painful. Is like yagi is trying to break the story itself. For example thabita. She cries for miria, she punches deneve because of miria, she almost got killed because she was thinking about miria and then what she does ? she goes to the yoma factory. Sorry but this does not make any sense.

[Claymore!]

@Nixl

By that logic then

Spoiler for Power levels:

You are saying that you didn't like Teresa because you thought that she was to strong. So, that must mean you feel the same way about Priscilla right?


But it is hard to compare DBZ characters and Claymore characters because they are so different.

Funny because it is clare that reminds me dragon ball z, not Teresa( not saying that people may be right after thinking twice on this subject). Everyone forgets that Teresa could be a cold bitch too. Only in the very end she becomes butter. Still I do like how she looks down on others in the end of her battles. Maybe it is because of this that I don’t see her as a dragon ball z character

Yeah, especially when Clare gets all those power-ups. She can only keep getting stronger and stronger.

[Nixl]

Actually, I was not as serious with the last one. However, that is a good comparison Claymore! Although, I would probably have made Priscilla Freeza and maybe Roxanne will be Boo (Bu?).

Furthermore, it is not so much she was powerful, but rather the archetype of a cold badass who finds a heart when he meets innocence personified. It is just that I have seen it so many times in movies, stories, and manga that I am somewhat sick of it. That is not to say it makes a bad character, but I was more interested in Priscilla, who seemed like a shounen protagonist (for justice, etc) gone wrong, very wrong. I do admit I am biased more towards Priscilla due to the fact that she has become fun to analyze through the story.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Furthermore, it is not so much she was powerful, but rather the archetype of a cold badass who finds a heart when he meets innocence personified.

I guess you think that is a bad thing?

I don't see what was bad about Teresa becoming a good person who learned to love again. That is a great thing. She was happy and Clare was happy.

It is just that I have seen it so many times in movies, stories, and manga that I am somewhat sick of it. That is not to say it makes a bad character, but I was more interested in Priscilla, who seemed like a shounen protagonist (for justice, etc) gone wrong, very wrong. I do admit I am biased more towards Priscilla due to the fact that she has become fun to analyze through the story.

Well i have not seen that exact circumstance very often. so i don't think it is overused. That is like saying that the "good guy wins, bad guy loses" theme is overused. I mean who really wants a story where all the good guys die? Think of every movie and story you have ever seen/read, now imagine if all the good guys died and the bad guys privaled. would that not make the story pointless? So something being overused, as you say it, is not always a bad thing.

As for priscilla, she is the antagonist of the story now.

[Nixl]

Sorry, I should not have hit submit before I edited in that one sentence. I do not think it makes a bad character, but personally I have just seen it so many times that I was not so emotionally caught up with the character.

If I had never seen the Professional and numerous other stories that have the same archetype then I probably would have though Teresa was hot shit and awesome.

Ninja reply

Originally Posted by Claymore!

Well i have not seen that exact circumstance very often. so i don't think it is overused. That is like saying that the "good guy wins, bad guy loses" theme is overused. I mean who really wants a story where all the good guys die?

As for priscilla, she is the antagonist of the story now.

Perhaps, but there are ways to use old themes and archetypes win new ways or at least twist them. For Claymore, I feel like Teresa dying at the last second for not paying attention even though she won was a good twist. She did not win nor did she die in a blaze of glory in order to save a bus full of kittens. She died due to a dirty trick. It threw my expectations out the window and I enjoyed it.

Also, I realize that Priscilla is the antagonist, but what I mean to say is that she appeared similar to young idealistic justice driven protagonists in other manga/shows, etc yet she becomes the villain. Furthermore, Priscilla pulls out random hidden power that is suppressed within her to win. It sounds like a protagonist from another manga with the twist that she is the villain. Claire on the other-hand is not so much concerned with justice as her priority, but rather revenge. In addition, she has suffered for every bit of power and for the moment she is not pulling out hidden powers (yet...).

There are ways to redefine old archetypes. I did not feel as though Teresa really set herself apart from other counter-parts in the archetype. What made the difference is not only that she died, but how she died. It was not a happy ending and it most certainly was not a blaze of glory.

[Teresa4ever]

Originally Posted by Nixl

She died due to a dirty trick.

You got that right. It was a Dirt Ass trick, by priscilla, who is an evil monster.

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by Teresa4ever

You got that right. It was a Dirt Ass trick, by priscilla, who is an evil monster.

Exactly, it was a defining moment in the manga. I believe Teresa's death is the moment that story begins or at least when the plot begins to shift into a journey of revenge.

To clarify, just because I disliked Teresa characterization or that I felt the Witch's Maw arc fell flat does not mean that I dislike the story or do not feel that it is worth reading. I am definitely not saying that.

[Teresa4ever]

To clarify, just because I disliked Teresa characterization or that I felt the Witch's Maw arc fell flat does not mean that I dislike the story or do not feel that it is worth reading. I am definitely not saying that.

yeah i understand. I can just get a little bitchy at times.

And someone repped me saying "It's not for you to decide how others should "correctly" see things. Pos repping this only to prevent whining, I definitely don't approve of such comments."
I would have prefered neg rep compared to that, If it was neg rep i wouldn't have started whining, I'm not a little girl who can't handle a little insult. If i offended someone, its just because im like Helen, im Abrasive.

[Nixl]

Pardon, it was not directed to you, but I believe some people may feel that I am sniping at the whole manga when I am not trying to do that. I am not a troll...yet.

[ATM]

Originally Posted by Etheral

I speculated that Raki would use the synchronization youki (I think he's a male Claymore or some variant at this point.) to revive Claire but there is another possibility. The chapter specifically mentions the intentions of the evil doctor (forgot name), he wants the hand to return to its master implying some kind of link or ability. So there is the possibility of any one of the #1 AB's to go and revive Claire/Priscilla by the end of the chapter if the author so wishes. It may be improbable but not out of the realm of possibility.

The name of the evil doctor you mention is Daae.

I don’t think that Raki is something other than 100% human (at least I hope that he is still 100% human). The thing I like the most about him is that he is merely a human.

I like your theory about the revival of Claire/Priscilla. I was thinking that Priscilla, and later on Clare (since she can’t fly) might show up at staff, after breaking loose from the cocoon. Priscilla will sense the release of so much yoki by the new born AO’s, along with her essence within them, that she will be lured as Daae implies. So she will struggle and might break free because Clare cannot hold her anymore or because she decides to release her for some reason that’s important to her. Didn’t occur to me that one of the new AO’s could go to them. I will go for either scenario as long as it happens soon.

I agree with some of the things you say about how hard it was to convince Claymores to flee the north in order to stay alive. I will add that claymores are very stubborn and rather die than face dishonor and that Miria was afraid to share the information she knew because it was too controversial; she didn’t even mention all that she knew about the organization to her closest allies (Deneve, Clair and Helen). I think Miria, at that point, was not very loyal to the organization, but she remained loyal to the other claymores and to her beliefs.

I’m glad they held their ground and fought bravely at pieta because it’s a memorable scene, and in time, for that, they became legends. But if they had the chance to run away from Pieta like BlackMagister observes, I think that the best chance would have been after they defeated the first 3 AB’s. All the people where already evacuated from the town, they won a fight, and they now somewhat trusted each other more.

[ATM]

Originally Posted by ReverseReasoning

Being a bit biased, I really liked the Witch's Maw for a few particular things:

1) Riful was introduced. In my opinion, she is one of the best characters created by Yagi for a few reasons. First, she enjoys torturing and is the only character I know who would let Galatea, Clare and Jean go. She loves playing games and is true to her words unlike Isley and Luciella (both are two-faced Abyssals). She is also very powerful and I really love her awakened form. She can even fight without limbs using her magical hair, something Isley can't do. Lastly, she loves Dauf and vice-versa. They never left each other and you can really see that she was more than just the monster most people like her for.

2) Clare finally managed to control her quick sword. She also met and pulled Jean back from awakening. We also got to see Clare's improvement after Ophelia's slaughter.

3) Galatea was introduced. Nuff said.

4) Awesome fight Scenes with Dauf was awesome. One of the finest teamworks I've seen in Claymore. No Miria needed.

Hello and welcome.

My favorite Riful moment is when she trashed Audrey’s group. I liked the way she got their hopes all high, make them feel like they locked up a win against her and then, a few moments later, she snatched those feelings of triumph and replaced them with sheer terror. I loved Riful for that, but then she had to let them get away without even killing the low digit claymores, so it was love that lasted only a few pages.

I think she is a great villain and a complex character; she is a young child that has lived for quite a while and behaves more like a kid than a grown up (much like Eli in the movie ‘let the right one in’). And when it comes to bringing terror I think she is on par with the other Ao’s.

But my favorite Abyssal is Luciela. She might be a two-faced, two-tailed bitch who only made it to two chapters but it was love at first sight. She’s got the looks, charisma and malice to make her my favorite Ao. I like isley second, Riful third and Cassandra Last.

[ATM]

Hey what happened to everyones banners? I don't see any and I remember that Claymore! had Ophelia, Rafael had lelouch lamperouge and teresa4ever had the "apples girl". Did they banned banners?

Nixl, Priscilla is more like Dracula or Arthas from frozen throne.

Teresa4ever!, If you are like Helen then you are my kind of person! Hehehe.

Sorry for not posting in a single message what I wanted to say. Hard to keep track of all I wanted to say.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by ATM

Hey what happened to everyones banners? I don't see any and I remember that Claymore! had Ophelia, Rafael had lelouch lamperouge and teresa4ever had the "apples girl". Did they banned banners?

The signature pictures? They should still be there. Maybe your computer didn't load the page properly.

and "apples girl" is Helen. And I love her too, one of my favorite characters

[Etheral]

ATM

I say he is a variant or something like it because I just don't think you can have priscilla's hand inside you and not have something happen. She said something about a gift, and I think it was more than just stopping him from death, she could have simply pulled them out if she wanted, but left a whole hand in there. It is possible he is still human, but it will explain better what we all know will soon be ridiculous moves in upcoming chapters that no amount of mastery of the sword can ever provide (although i won't really care too much ).


And that was my favorite Riful moment too. For a second I actually thought the Clamores avg. abilities might have become some higher level or something, made me smile when I was so wrong.

[ATM]

Originally Posted by Etheral

ATM

I say he is a variant or something like it because I just don't think you can have priscilla's hand inside you and not have something happen. She said something about a gift, and I think it was more than just stopping him from death, she could have simply pulled them out if she wanted, but left a whole hand in there. It is possible he is still human, but it will explain better what we all know will soon be ridiculous moves in upcoming chapters that no amount of mastery of the sword can ever provide (although i won't really care too much ).


And that was my favorite Riful moment too. For a second I actually thought the Clamores avg. abilities might have become some higher level or something, made me smile when I was so wrong.

It was really weird that Priscilla left her arm instead of just pulling those things, yeah that could mean something extra, we will see if it increased his strength and/or gave him some abilities like regeneration. I hope not. I just think, Maybe the rods from the destroyer eat you after pulling them out, as they infect you with something. I remember Deneve chopping her own arm in order to get rid of one rod. She could have overreacted or maybe she just knew that the infection was gonna eat ya once the rod pierced you. And maybe that can explain as to why Priscilla left her arm on Raki’s back, she was maybe in a hurry too. But then again if that is true, when Dae removed the arm from raki, the infection would have killed him. But then again the infection might only live for a short period of time.

Yeah there is a lot that is not certain, I only hope that raki remains human and when he beaten up those mibs, he just let out the Chuck Norris in him.

I never seen a Claymore paralyzed by hopelessness, trembling with fear and sobbing like a 4 year old all in one before I saw Audrey as she was being wrapped by Rifuls ribbons. If was funny for me too. Not even Clarice has been so lame, she had her rooky moments, but she has made up for them.

[Claymore!]

I do not want Raki to become something other than human. It would ruin his character.

As for priscilla's hand, i dont think it did anything for him except neutralize the destroyer rods. if he was a hybrid now, he would be doing even more fantastic things than he did before. Besides i don't think that it is that easy for someone to become a hybrid (just by being pierced by yoma/AB flesh) or else there would be just random hybrids all around the island who have been attacked by ABs or yoma and survived.

[ATM]

I agree with you Claymore! He is just a cook that happens to be a martial arts expert. hey that sounds like an Steven Segal cheesie movie, hehehe.

He went along with Clare, not only because he thought she was hot or that he had no place to go. He also went along with her because he wanted to become a hero someday. He waned to lear how to fight because he likes it, and he was lucky to become, at some point Isley's pupil, which yielded great results.

[ReverseReasoning]

Well, Riful has lots of good fight scenes. Alicia vs Riful was one. Respect for Alicia went soaring when she was able to compete with her. Then again, Riful was already tired managing herself and Dauf at the same time.

Luciella's AO form was also amazing. I just hate the fact that she had very little character development. She fought Isley, found her sister, and died. She should've been with Rafaela in the battle against Clare. Yay for her.