Lucky Star - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Couldn't have put it any better, Vexx. Whether you like them or not, these inside jokes are here to stay. Your best bet? Either stop watching or stop complaining (no disrespect intended) and accept that they're part of the show, since it's unlikely Kyo-Ani would ever "learn" and make them go away.

And Kyo-Ani isn't the only studio guilty of putting self-referential humour, just look at Ouran Host Club and Hayate no Gotoku. The list goes on. Of course compared to Lucky Star, their self-reference pales in comparison.

Before Lucky Star, Kyo-Ani has rather showed some restraint in self-referential humour in their previous works, it's just that the premise for Lucky Star, basically a koma strip about an otaku girl and her friends - without the burden of a heavy plot. This of course makes it ideal for the insertion of self-referential jokes anywhere, hence the "orgy" of otaku-related jokes and inside-jokes.

It does leave space open for self-referential jokes, but it's not necessarily the ideal or only option. They could also fill part of the time with some of those Kagami Vs Konata moments or write some of their own 4-Koma style jokes. Basically it doesn't have to be an orgy, it could be a mix of Otaku pleasing and Everyday life stuff when there are gaps in the manga, and it doesn't necessarily need to be an inside joke, it can be anything. For example, they need to fill time, rather than send Konata to the store again and feature the same old products, why not feature her doing something on the computer and actually show a view of the game and her character tearing up the MMO scene. There are lots of options to be explored.

Oh and for point of reference Ouran High School Host Club<Hayate No Gotoku<Lucky Star<Family Guy<Pani Poni Dash, when it comes to self-reference and injokes. At least in my view as most of HnG's references come from other very obvious sources, but I get less of Family Guy's references without help then I do with Lucky Star and that's my own culture, and Pani Poni Dash I all but needed the PDF Files that contained all the information on the refs.

On the prospect of the episode itself, has anybody noticed that Miyuki has barely been used at all in the show lately. Despite being all prim and proper and an unpopular character for the most part (though she'd still sell more related merchandise than a male main character like Sousuke ), she isn't all that boring. I haven't seen this episode, but I hope they do something with her again soon. I never thought I'd feel this way, but I kind of miss the finger pointed up in the air followed by a motherly lecture bit.

I also saw the ending and on one hand it is quite bizarre, which I like, but on the other hand, the history behind it's existance irks me a little. I'm 50/50 for and against it (more like 60/40 actually).

[dodgethis_sg]

Echo
Papa
India
Charlie

times many many, as they say in the SAF.

[Julius Firefocht]

This episode requires, nay, demands more than 10. The voting scale here does not begin to describe its awesomeness.

Sunrise seems to be especially generous with their stuff lately. XD

[GoldAlchemist]

KyoAni is trying to appeal to its hardcore fan base who would appreciate these jokes. Why? Your typical anime fans, even if they reside in Japan, would probably watch the anime on TV or internet, but you won't cough up the dough for the super expensive DVD and stuff, which afterall is where KyoAni makes its money.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Couldn't have put it any better, Vexx. Whether you like them or not, these inside jokes are here to stay. Your best bet? Either stop watching or stop complaining (no disrespect intended) and accept that they're part of the show, since it's unlikely Kyo-Ani would ever "learn" and make them go away.

Tsundere Kagami-sama!

PS I personally find Shiraishi's Live-Action ED funny.

Welllllllll, that's not *exactly* what I meant. Self-referential jokes can be funny but if they intrude over the central action, to me it becomes a lose. For example, despite some of the audience loving the scene between the two voice actors in the convention --- I find that sort of thing a derail. It went on way too long and basically that isn't part of Lucky*Star's world. Instead of being integrated, it was almost like a separate commercial moment.
Now, I enjoyed the anime-only moments of how the girls reacted to the convention... but I found the vendor cameo-reference battle poorly integrated and pretty much irrelevant to the core of Lucky*Star.
At least in the Initial D reference in an earlier episode, a character was directly involved and participating in the parody.

Ten years from now when everyone's forgotten who 'Sugita" and those characters are... people watching Lucky*Star ep 12 will probably go ... okay what the hell was that bit about and why was it animated so differently?
And what did it have to do with Lucky*Star? Whereas with the Initial D sequence they might at least think "that was so funny watching her act like she was in some video game".

If the ED is "live-action Shiriashi" that's almost what I was wishing for the L*C segment.... thumbs up.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Welllllllll, that's not *exactly* what I meant. Self-referential jokes can be funny but if they intrude over the central action, to me it becomes a lose. For example, despite some of the audience loving the scene between the two voice actors in the convention --- I find that sort of thing a derail. It went on way too long and basically that isn't part of Lucky*Star's world. Instead of being integrated, it was almost like a separate commercial moment.
Now, I enjoyed the anime-only moments of how the girls reacted to the convention... but I found the vendor cameo-reference battle poorly integrated and pretty much irrelevant to the core of Lucky*Star.
At least in the Initial D reference in an earlier episode, a character was directly involved and participating in the parody.

Ten years from now when everyone's forgotten who 'Sugita" and those characters are... people watching Lucky*Star ep 12 will probably go ... okay what the hell was that bit about and why was it animated so differently?
And what did it have to do with Lucky*Star? Whereas with the Initial D sequence they might at least think "that was so funny watching her act like she was in some video game".

If the ED is "live-action Shiriashi" that's almost what I was wishing for the L*C segment.... thumbs up.

What was it that professor said to me once, it was like there is period based comedy such as jokes being levelled against politicians and then their is timeless comedy like football in the groin and while period based comedy may be all the rage in that era, it will only lead to confused looks later down the road. For example, Gerald Ford's habit for stumbling and losing his footing at awkard times resulted in much lampooning and everybody knew about it and laughed, even Mr. Ford himself, but how many people remember or even laugh at that anymore now that he's no longer president and has since passed away. Yet things such as Charlie Chaplin's impersonations of Adolf Hitler will probably always draw laughs as there is historical value in that and people will get the reference. Thus, I think Lucky Star is primarily a period comedy, but could have jokes that become timeless if it wanted.

@Julius Firefocht: That's something I don't see or hear everyday. Did you mean to post that in the Code Geass forum and make a mistake? I think you have the wrong series.

[kenjiharima]

ACK!!! I WANNA DOWNLOAD THE RAWS NOW...

I think Minoru Shiraishi must have...gone to the other side...damn sun flowers XD

But as for the spoilers looks like Lucky Star is getting better every new episode!

oppps no time for this and work...*downloads RAWS*

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

I'll wait till I've seen the episode to make my grading. But this got my heart stopped for a moment.

I never get tired of seeing this posted (since coming to SoCal, I've gotten so behind on anime... leaving for home tomolo though). I loved seeing it in the image thread, loved seeing screencaps of it, and I loove seeing it actually animated. Now if Kagami would *really* do that instead of it being Kona's imagination.

Will wait to comment on self-referential jokes until I've seen the more recent episodes... it seems it's a topic that never fully goes away and likes to reappear every so often ne. Lost count how many times "Animaniacs" has been mentioned in this sub-forum... keep this up and I'm ordering the DVD sets (though admittedly, I plan to order them eventually anyways).

[Kaoru Chujo]

1. Like almost every anime -- and like Dickens, Shakespeare, etc. -- this show is being made for profits over the next few years, not for posterity. So the period-based comedy is okay by me. Better than a football in the groin, even when I don't get the references. But I am still not laughing out loud very often, I admit.

2. I am the furthest thing from a purist, so I just don't see any problem with the inserted humor like the Animate store manager, etc. I don't even think it violates the unity of the piece, since it refers so directly to Konata's obsessions. I can even imagine all that stuff taking place in Kona-chan's imagination. The differing visual style and pacing is like a punctuation of the rest of the piece for me, not an interruption.

3. 2channel is beginning to roar with approval. There are still a few naysayers, but the bulk of the posts sees this show as almost all win, now. It's not going to catch up to StrikerS in number of posts, but it is closing the gap, proportionally. It's up to over 167,000 posts, with StrikerS at over 210,000. LS has climbed from 2/3 of StrikerS to over 3/4.

4. The idea that this is being made for the public that is so obsessed it will actually buy the DVDs makes sense to me. But I do think others can enjoy it, too.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Risaa

I never get tired of seeing this posted (since coming to SoCal, I've gotten so behind on anime... leaving for home tomolo though). I loved seeing it in the image thread, loved seeing screencaps of it, and I loove seeing it actually animated. Now if Kagami would *really* do that instead of it being Kona's imagination.

Will wait to comment on self-referential jokes until I've seen the more recent episodes... it seems it's a topic that never fully goes away and likes to reappear every so often ne. Lost count how many times "Animaniacs" has been mentioned in this sub-forum... keep this up and I'm ordering the DVD sets (though admittedly, I plan to order them eventually anyways).

Animaniacs, animaniacs, animaniacs, ani.... what? I just like saying it.

@Kaoru: Oh, I whine about the inserts because I just don't think the original material needs it. Kind of like the same way I thought Peter Jackson's LOTR futzing with the Army of the Dead sequences was colorful but mostly unnecessary PJ overampage. The card vendor scene.... just wasn't even funny or seemed like part of the show (to me). Most of the other inserts have fit right in with Kona's activities or were well integrated (like the driving scene).
Fortunately, the rest of the convention sequence and all of the shinto/newyear's sequence made up for it. Quite a fair amount of ep 12 was anime-only but fit right in with the spirit of the source material. Very anxious to see ep 13 now after seeing some of the clips.

[Anh_Minh]

I don't know. I rather liked the vendor fight. Even though I don't pay attention to VA names and didn't get that it was Sousuke and Kyon's VA until after the fact.

I mean, yeesh, I don't care who voices them, hotblood(tm) clerks are fun.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I mean, yeesh, I don't care who voices them, hotblood(tm) clerks are fun.

To bad in real life your more likely to get the Konata: "I'm busy go ask someone else" thing from her imagined part time job, only without the Loli at the cash register and instead a rough 300 lb personality named Rick. If only most retailers could be as passionate as the Anime Tenchou and less like Sugita's "Oh gee we're really sorry but we've gotta follow bureaucratic store policy and you the customer are to blame, have a nice day", the world would be a more interesting place. That's why I order everything I can online.

[Anh_Minh]

I actually wouldn't like loud, aggressive clerks IRL. A cute loli, OTOH, would be a lot more forgivable even if she mumbles and isn't terribly helpful.

[Kouvley]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

@Julius Firefocht: That's something I don't see or hear everyday. Did you mean to post that in the Code Geass forum and make a mistake? I think you have the wrong series.

I think Julius was refering to the Sunrise parodies in this episode.

Spoiler for Parodies:

There was a Code Geass one and a Keroro Gunso one where the cast voiced some characters and done the next ep preview.

The ending caught me off guard completely.
Pretty funny as a one off joke - if you get the reference of course.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Kouvley

I think Julius was refering to the Sunrise parodies in this episode.

Spoiler for Parodies:

There was a Code Geass one and a Keroro Gunso one where the cast voiced some characters and done the next ep preview.

The ending caught me off guard completely.
Pretty funny as a one off joke - if you get the reference of course.

Hmmm, then the reason they are so generous is because Bandai, Kadokawa and Toei are extremely close knit, own stock in each other and they all might as well be the same company. Kadokawa has the magazines, Bandai the electronic media and Toei pretty much owns the 5-12 demographic. Although, Bandai still seems to be very strict when it comes to Gundam.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Ten years from now when everyone's forgotten who 'Sugita" and those characters are... people watching Lucky*Star ep 12 will probably go ... okay what the hell was that bit about and why was it animated so differently?
And what did it have to do with Lucky*Star? Whereas with the Initial D sequence they might at least think "that was so funny watching her act like she was in some video game".

No chance of people forgetting about Animate Tencho in 10 years. He IS the mascot of the Animate store after-all, and I think the store is going strong...

I got myself a part-time job at my local anime shop recently, and have asked Boss to try get me an Animate Tencho cap. It will give me "hot blood and guts!" while I run the place on Sundays.

[Vexx]

If you can generate the surrounding effects when you externalize your gar-ness ... it'll probably be a huge hit. But I've learned not to underestimate what can be forgotten by the crowd be it literature, politics, pop-icons, or whatever.

[archanfels]

Kool ep., some good stuff, but IMO the Animate Dencho gang's gotta stop appearing.

If you think about it (which, I guess should be prohibited in the first place while watching LS), the latest 2 ep. felt like a big playground/commercial-fest for KyoAni and you the audience are somewhat toyed by them. Take the "Epic" ED everyone's talking bout, it's funny if you get the reference but just wth does it have to do w/ LS? The previous songs are from elsewhere too but at least they were integrated into the show as karaokes.

While I overall enjoyed them, I can see Ep. 12/13 being annoying to some, especially those fans of the original manga. Afterall, LS has an original manga version and is not some otaku/self-referencefest created by KyoAni.

The lastest 2 Ep. strongly supported the opinion that LS are solely for Otaku enjoyment, which I disagreed before (I mean, really, for a not-so-otaku like myself I enjoyed LS most times but had to google/wiki lots of the stuff in these recent 2 ep.), hopefully next one w/ the introduction of new characters, KyoAni will restrain themselves and get back to focus on the show itself.

[Vexx]

Its probably a matter of *which* otaku..... as a fan of the original manga, I'd rather not see the heart of Lucky*Star buried under duct-taped on stuff, whereas people who haven't read the manga are enjoying such things more. Kyo-ani has done a relatively decent job but aye, I'm hoping they got it out of their system a bit as there's much more story to tell from the manga.

[krln99]

Originally Posted by archanfels

Kool ep., some good stuff, but IMO the Animate Dencho gang's gotta stop appearing.

If you think about it (which, I guess should be prohibited in the first place while watching LS), the latest 2 ep. felt like a big playground/commercial-fest for KyoAni and you the audience are somewhat toyed by them. Take the "Epic" ED everyone's talking bout, it's funny if you get the reference but just wth does it have to do w/ LS? The previous songs are from elsewhere too but at least they were integrated into the show as karaokes.

While I overall enjoyed them, I can see Ep. 12/13 being annoying to some, especially those fans of the original manga. Afterall, LS has an original manga version and is not some otaku/self-referencefest created by KyoAni.

The lastest 2 Ep. strongly supported the opinion that LS are solely for Otaku enjoyment, which I disagreed before (I mean, really, for a not-so-otaku like myself I enjoyed LS most times but had to google/wiki lots of the stuff in these recent 2 ep.), hopefully next one w/ the introduction of new characters, KyoAni will restrain themselves and get back to focus on the show itself.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Less KyoAni and otaku in-jokes and more L*S. Hopefully the next episode we get to see the rest of the "freshman class" in addition to Yutaka - Minami, Hyori, and Patty.