2010-01-12, 00:10 | Link #1123 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Spoiler for omitted relevant red truths in the novel:
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2010-01-12, 03:43 | Link #1124 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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A possible motive for all of the culprits and accomplices could be that they are just trying to make it seem like magic and witches exist? By making weird murder cases? Also kinda explains why Rudolf said to Battler that he will probably die that night, IF Rudolf were to be one of the people behind the crimes. |
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2010-01-12, 03:53 | Link #1125 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Wait wait I think we are getting confused here. Since you taked about the key in Maria's letter I thought you were talking about the murder in chapel of EP2. I don't remember any other key in any Maria's letter.
the red truths above refer to the chapel murder of EP2, sorry...
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2010-01-12, 04:33 | Link #1126 | |
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lol how about for those red hints though that since it wasn't passed through anyones hands it was passed through legs lmfao. |
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2010-01-12, 07:00 | Link #1127 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Age: 34
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I've been thinking about this for awhile but is it possible that the reason for why Kinzo's death has been kept hidden and the reason for it always being found burnt isn't just because he died but because he was murdered (either accidentally or purposely)? Furthermore, I think that Natsuhi really thought that she saw Kinzo (or his spirit anyways) in game one. I just don't think that she is properly sane which may be the reason behind her headaches (unless they was another stated reason for why she had them). I also think that Eva's note in the door was more of a bluff then a truth. I think that she assumes (like the other adults) that Kinzo is dead to begin with and was trying to use this as a way of confirming it indirectly.
I don't like the wording of the red truth of there being "no more than 17 people" on the island. As when it before when it was "no more than 18" when it was believed that Kinzo was alive, I think that it may also create an illusion of there being that many people actually there. Is it possible that somebody else is either not really there or dead to begin with as well? If this is true than it can be presumed that there are actually either less than 17 people OR that there is a mysterious seventeenth person on the island (well, I guess it could be more than 1 mysterious person but I think that would be a little too much). Also in episode 3 with Nanjo's death, I've been thinking that the person who actually killed him had nothing to do with the actual murders in any of the other episodes (as well as that one). I remember reading somewhere that one of the things that were not included in the anime was that quite a few people were sloppily "killed" and did not die immediately. Taking this into account and other factors that were brought up during the episode: I believe the person who killed him was one of these people and shortly after, died of either blood loss or being killed by Eva who had already turned crazy due to Battler and seeing someone who was supposed to be dead continued to push her over the edge. The person that I think this is Spoiler for person:
Also, in the first episode, was it ever confirmed that everyone who died in the first twilight died at the same time? Also towards the question of the envelope with the key in episode 2, was it ever said in red that it was the ONLY envelope? I'm pretty sure that Maria already knows who is behind the murders on the island and could easily help in this regard. If she opened the envelope . . . used the key for the cuplrit . . . then put the key in a second already prepared envelope . . . there would be no problem. As long as it was only Maria that was using the key. Spoiler for Beatrice:
Last edited by Muyasuki; 2010-01-12 at 08:26. |
2010-01-12, 11:35 | Link #1128 | ||||
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2010-01-12, 12:48 | Link #1129 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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What if Shannon is actually Kanon and it makes up for 17 people with a person X?
That might explain Kanon's girliness and why Jessica fell in love with him? Lol. Also why Kanon doesn't have a name? edit to below: Oh... well I thought if that worked out Shannon's corpse in epi1 could have not even existed, and Kanon's disappearance in ep2 could've been Shannon just being Kanon lol. And Shannon running out to get the spiderweb could've been used for something else? Like moving the corpse around? Last edited by Ferv.; 2010-01-12 at 13:01. |
2010-01-12, 13:08 | Link #1131 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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that's the shkannon theory it has been at the center of several debates since a long time and still running.
Let's say there are strong hints that would point to this possibility, most notable the facts that Battler never sees both of them at the same time and one of the bodies (kanon's) is often missing. However as much as the story progresses the elements that disprove it get harsh and harsher and right now the only way to get around them is postulating some very dirty trick in the red truths.
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2010-01-12, 13:14 | Link #1132 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Oh... I thought i was the only one who thought of that. ._.
But now that I think about it it also might explain how he wants to become human and blah blah because he's actually a figment of Shannon's imagination from some lost brother or something and Shannon is just forcing him to exist but subconsciously realises that he does not exist? Lollll. I read the timeline thing from a few pages ago did Kanon not get employed years after Shannon? |
2010-01-18, 05:44 | Link #1134 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Wiener Neustadt, Austria
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just finished watching the anime. going to read the translation project later today. just wanna say that im pretty damn curious about the cliffhanger ending.
oh and of course umineko seems to be a contradiction in itself. because either: a) there IS magic, some sort of, or all those games, repeated worlds would be impossible. or b) there is no magic. that would just leave one conclusion. battler is the killer himself and has totally gone nuts and by fantasizing about all those things he's spending his time. :O i know it sounds ridiculous, but to me everything else from those two options doesn't make sense at all. |
2010-01-18, 08:50 | Link #1135 |
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maybe is someone else that is fantasizing about all those things, it doesn't necessarily needs to be Battler. Actually the 4th games tells us that there are a lot of people who call themselves "witch hunters" that do exactly that also thanx to the messages in the bottles that were found.
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2010-01-19, 05:11 | Link #1137 |
Magical Gohda Chef
Join Date: Sep 2009
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The stakes = adults theory has been around for some time now. I personally believe in the theory and think we can learn a great deal by comparing the adults to the stakes.
Lambda and Bern, on the other hand, is a bit harder. If Beato would represent the culprit, than perhaps Lambda and Bern represent the reason she kills (money problems etc.), but if the culprit is killing because of Battler's sin this doesn't make any sense. Also, if I hear one more Gaap = Nanjo I'm gonna jump off of something. |
2010-01-19, 09:07 | Link #1138 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Kyrie-Leviathan link is pretty much confirmed, but there's a bit of confusion about the rest.
For example everyone thought Rosa should be paired with Satan since Rosa is definitely the one who is more prone to anger than anyone else, however EP4 seems to rather point that her major sin is "lust". And one would wonder why it isn't Rudolf since it is well known that he is a philandered who got two women pregnant at the same time. And why is he paired to Belphegor even though he's been described as a workaholic by Ange? Eva strikes me as greed especially after EP3, but some says pride. Natsuhi is the one who is more fixated with the family honor so you could say pride, but she's also the one who's more prone to anger after Rosa. Hideyoshi seems the only one who could be paired with Beelzebub, and he's been staked by her before. 'though it's not like we really got many reasons to believe that Hideyoshi is a glutton and we have neither any scene with Hideyoshi interacting with Beelze.
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2010-01-19, 17:40 | Link #1139 | |
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If you think beyond just the sins, Rosa fit Asmodeus very well, as the younger and more childish. Same for Krauss and Lucifer, as the older child, but also the less competent one. He is also very prideful, trying to proove his worth to Kinzo no matter what (what was his biggest sin, as only caused problem to him). Then I gues Natsuhi is Satan, Eva, Mammon, and Hideyoshi is Beelzebub. Natsuhi and Eva fit with their demons' sin, but I don't see any similarity beyound that. And Hideyoshi... he sin is gluttony because... he is fat? I don't know, really. |
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