Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (ver 2 old)

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Well I got to see the episode again I don't know what the stipulations were. Did Lelouch agree? Either way that would have been better IMO. Nunally would have been safe and the UFN could have beaten the Britannians through Europe.

He didn't give any details, but he wouldn't accept Lelouch moving the fight. He wanted Lelouch to end the fighting and do things his way because it would keep Nunnally safe.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Well I got to see the episode again I don't know what the stipulations were. Did Lelouch agree? Either way that would have been better IMO. Nunally would have been safe and the UFN could have beaten the Britannians through Europe.

Uhh, you don't understand, he wanted Lelouch to give up the invasion in general. I doubt Suzaku would have approved of Lelouch just fighting elsewhere. But yes, he did agree BTW >_>

[sLum]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

He didn't give any details, but he wouldn't accept Lelouch moving the fight. He wanted Lelouch to end the fighting and do things his way because it would keep Nunnally safe.

Well he could've told Lelouch his father would've taken his sister hostage. That would've helped.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by sLum

Well he could've told Lelouch his father would've taken his sister hostage. That would've helped.

Lelouch already knows that, which is why he went out of his way to get Suzaku to keep her out of the Emperor's hands.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Uhh, you don't understand, he wanted Lelouch to give up the invasion in general. I doubt Suzaku would have approved of Lelouch just fighting elsewhere. But yes, he did agree BTW >_>

Oh I see. So why did he asked him to continue his lie then if asked him to give up? That's the part I don't get. Or did he mean keep pretending he doesn't have his memories?

[geewhiz]

Suzaku is a bastard whose clumsiness and lack of pride and patriotism have gotten those closest to him killed. The only thing he's ever regretted or blamed himself for is his father's death. Everything else is an opportunity for him to right someone else's wrongs by putting himself in the way. And then when he screws up he does not shoulder the guilt.


1) Euphie. As he gave up being her knight in favor of being her lover, he had less incentive to follow Euphie and Lelouch to their private meeting at the stadium indoors. Had he remained her knight he may have been closer by and been able to save her sooner.

2) Shirley. Instead of following her and guaranteeing her safety, he left her in the care of others to shoulder his KoR responsibilities.

3) Nunnally. He chose to continue fighting, and didn't anticipate Kallen could get out of the line of Freia's fire - the "live" geass is defensive more than offensive.


We can see a pattern here that implicated Lelouch as well: Lelouch geassed Euphie (accidentally) and Suzaku, on account of not being her knight, could not reach her before Zero fatally shot her. Also, Suzaku's KoR responsibilities precluded him from guarding Shirley, who was fatally wounded by a Rolo who adores his "nii-san" without realizing Lelouch intends him as a rag. Finally, Suzaku was brash in choosing to fight Kallen but the geass was Lelouch's doing. In each of these three cases, Lelouch had (mostly unwittingly) set up a scenario whereby Suzaku's [mostly lack of] action wound up being detrimental to key female characters.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Oh I see. So why did he asked him to continue his lie then if asked him to give up? That's the part I don't get. Or did he mean keep pretending he doesn't have his memories?

He wanted him to make his lie true, by doing things Suzaku's way rather than his own.

[sLum]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

Suzaku is a bastard whose clumsiness and lack of pride and patriotism have gotten those closest to him killed. The only thing he's ever regretted or blamed himself for is his father's death. Everything else is an opportunity for him to right someone else's wrongs by putting himself in the way. And then when he screws up he does not shoulder the guilt.


1) Euphie. As he gave up being her knight in favor of being her lover, he had less incentive to follow Euphie and Lelouch to their private meeting at the stadium indoors. Had he remained her knight he may have been closer by and been able to save her sooner.

2) Shirley. Instead of following her and guaranteeing her safety, he left her in the care of others to shoulder his KoR responsibilities.

3) Nunnally. He chose to continue fighting, and didn't anticipate Kallen could get out of the line of Freia's fire - the "live" geass is defensive more than offensive.


We can see a pattern here that implicated Lelouch as well: Lelouch geassed Euphie (accidentally) and Suzaku, on account of not being her knight, could not reach her before Zero fatally shot her. Also, Suzaku's KoR responsibilities precluded him from guarding Shirley, who was fatally wounded by a Rolo who adores his "nii-san" without realizing Lelouch intends him as a rag. Finally, Suzaku was brash in choosing to fight Kallen but the geass was Lelouch's doing. In each of these three cases, Lelouch had (mostly unwittingly) set up a scenario whereby Suzaku's [mostly lack of] action wound up being detrimental to key female characters.

This post isn't biased at all. Fair and Balanced reporting.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

He wanted him to make his lie true, by doing things Suzaku's way rather than his own.

Oh I see. Well it could have been for the best or for the worst. Who knows. Thanks for clarifying though.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by sLum

This post isn't biased at all. Fair and Balanced reporting.

All posts are biased. It's just a matter of degree.

Originally Posted by geewhiz

Suzaku is a bastard whose clumsiness and lack of pride and patriotism have gotten those closest to him killed. The only thing he's ever regretted or blamed himself for is his father's death. Everything else is an opportunity for him to right someone else's wrongs by putting himself in the way. And then when he screws up he does not shoulder the guilt.

1) Euphie. As he gave up being her knight in favor of being her lover, he had less incentive to follow Euphie and Lelouch to their private meeting at the stadium indoors. Had he remained her knight he may have been closer by and been able to save her sooner.

2) Shirley. Instead of following her and guaranteeing her safety, he left her in the care of others to shoulder his KoR responsibilities.

3) Nunnally. He chose to continue fighting, and didn't anticipate Kallen could get out of the line of Freia's fire - the "live" geass is defensive more than offensive.

We can see a pattern here that implicated Lelouch as well: Lelouch geassed Euphie (accidentally) and Suzaku, on account of not being her knight, could not reach her before Zero fatally shot her. Also, Suzaku's KoR responsibilities precluded him from guarding Shirley, who was fatally wounded by a Rolo who adores his "nii-san" without realizing Lelouch intends him as a rag. Finally, Suzaku was brash in choosing to fight Kallen but the geass was Lelouch's doing. In each of these three cases, Lelouch had (mostly unwittingly) set up a scenario whereby Suzaku's [mostly lack of] action wound up being detrimental to key female characters.

I can't bring myself to disagree, but I do have to counter one thing. He was Euphy's knight. He took the position back up after dropping it, hence the badge. He would have stayed behind either way.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

He wanted him to make his lie true, by doing things Suzaku's way rather than his own.

It was quite silly for Lelouch to say things as he believed Suzaku would want to hear them. If he had been honest about his good intentions as opposed to giving cold, heartless reasons that had none of Lelouch's sentimentality and all of Zero's "deceive for results" aura, Schneizel would likely have had far less to work with.

[sLum]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

It was quite silly for Lelouch to say things as he believed Suzaku would want to hear them. If he had been honest about his good intentions as opposed to giving cold, heartless reasons that had none of Lelouch's sentimentality and all of Zero's "deceive for results" aura, Schneizel would likely have had far less to work with.

Your blind hatred is showing like Lelouch's aura.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

All posts are biased. It's just a matter of degree.

I can't bring myself to disagree, but I do have to counter one thing. He was Euphy's knight. He took the position back up after dropping it, hence the badge. He would have stayed behind either way.

Well, thank you for noticing and there's a new point: Suzaku staying behind ensured both Euphie's and Shirley's deaths. Not that he intended it or could do anything about it but there's parallelism in those scenarios in any case.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by sLum

Your blind hatred is showing like Lelouch's aura.

My blind hatred of what? I don't follow...

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by sLum

This post isn't biased at all. Fair and Balanced reporting.

Yeaaahhh, I have to say that was a bit harsh Gee. At this point, I've just about given up trying to come up with perfect answers or solutions to everything, there are none in the end, and I such I will instead simple chronicle the events as they unfold from now on. Cept about C.CXLelouch, never giving that up I tell you!

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

It was quite silly for Lelouch to say things as he believed Suzaku would want to hear them. If he had been honest about his good intentions as opposed to giving cold, heartless reasons that had none of Lelouch's sentimentality and all of Zero's "deceive for results" aura, Schneizel would likely have had far less to work with.

Anything less than his heartless relies would have just pissed Suzaku off. It would look like he was making excuses. lelouch decided to shoulder the blame for his sister's sake.

[sLum]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

My blind hatred of what? I don't follow...

Of Suzaku?

[Narona]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Not like Nunnally isn't actually in danger as he surmised, if anything she is in danger because he let her have her own will. I'm not about to say Suzaku would thank Lelouch, but in his position could you really let your best friend kill himself like that at the time? It wasn't that he was wrong about Suzaku, it was that he was right in the end. As for Shirley, look what investing her life cost him? How can you even want to bring someone you care about like that into your world willingly, its an arena that destroys people, destroys him even. As C.C said, if you really care about someone then you should keep them at arms-length, as it were. Do we blame Lelouch for everything on this matter? Was Nunnally, Suzaku, or Shirley not also responsible for there own actions? Are you saying they were right in the decisions they made, or haven't caused him pain as well, or created their own share of victims because of it? What about circumstances, chance, the increasing variables of life?

This is the thing I think about when watching Code Geass, you can't really take a side and blame one person for any one thing, you can't say there actions are unjustified or unsubstantiated, nor can you say they are without fault or consequence. If that is the case, then what we are witnessing isn't an act of simple instigator and receiver, fault and blame, but a group of victims more then anything else. In this case, I think we are meant to pity rather then hate, to witness rather then judge, as the events unfold before us.

You got it right.

Now think about something as right about our favorite pairing

I'm joking. Great post, Krimzon

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Yeaaahhh, I have to say that was a bit harsh Gee. At this point, I've just about given up trying to come up with perfect answers or solutions to everything, there are none in the end, and I such I will instead simple chronicle the events as they unfold from now on. Cept about C.CXLelouch, never giving that up I tell you!

Yeah I know. There's no such thing as perfectly fair and balanced, but it's not like we can't get close, eh? In news reporting, it sometimes takes longer for all the facts of an event to be released than it does to issue the first few reports.

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Anything less than his heartless relies would have just pissed Suzaku off. It would look like he was making excuses. lelouch decided to shoulder the blame for his sister's sake.

I suppose...

Originally Posted by sLum

Of Suzaku?

I'm convinced the staff writers are setting up Suzaku as a tragic character at the moment. There's a climax I'm sure that hasn't happened yet, but for now they're making him as miserable as possible and as hated as possible. I'm just going with the flow here...

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

I'm convinced the staff writers are setting up Suzaku as a tragic character at the moment. There's a climax I'm sure that hasn't happened yet, but for now they're making him as miserable as possible and as hated as possible. I'm just going with the flow here...

I don't know about that, but I'm hoping that the shit keeps building up until he realizes what an idiot he's been for trying to change a single colony in an Empire built to oppress foreigners.