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Old 2008-01-26, 00:44   Link #21
4Tran
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My favorite trend is probably the rise of the Noitamina timeslot:

Honey and Clover
Paradise Kiss
Ayakashi
Jyuohsei
Honey and Clover II
Hataraki Man
Nodame Cantabile
Mononoke
Moyashimon
Hakaba Kitarō

This is just about as good a collection of shows as there were in the last few years. Moreover, the popularity of these shows (they usually garner the best ratings of any shows airing latenight) means there is an increased chance of seeing more high quality (and perhaps a little quirky) shows in the future.

As for the increased number of male characters, I don't think that the number or proportion is all that important. What is important is how well their characters are written and presented. In that regard, male characters are probably better off now than they have been in a long time (depending on genre), but it'll be a while yet before we progress beyond the milquetoast, sullen loner or brash youngster archetypes.
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Old 2008-01-26, 07:56   Link #22
Blaat
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Originally Posted by Amex_Yohko View Post
In fact the 1970's is the golden age for Japanese animation industries much like what 1940's did to Hollywood.
I'm pretty sure the 80s is considered the golden age of anime (well late 70s, entire 80s) all the way up the bubble economy collapse in 1990.
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Old 2008-01-26, 08:21   Link #23
Supah Em
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great musical scores

ef ~ a tale of memories ~ would pose as the best example for making a common plot into a more interesting story by inserting great musical cues and great timing for other musical scores.



oh and also, mediocre animation but fitted with an interesting story

GTO, anyone?
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Old 2008-01-26, 08:50   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
I'm pretty sure the 80s is considered the golden age of anime (well late 70s, entire 80s) all the way up the bubble economy collapse in 1990.
Depends who you ask. Some say 70s, some say 80s. I personally think anyone who thought there ever was a golden age is looking at the past with rose tinted glasses. All periods have gold and crap, and the ratio generally fluctuates around an approximate constant.

What 4Tran said. Noitamina is one of the great initiatives in modern anime. We're also seeing the rise of a lot of great directors, IMO, like Kasai, Shinbo, Shinkai and Kon, etc, etc, who are willing to really challenge convention and push boundaries and/or invest incredible thought and care into their works.

We've also seen something in the last six months that just over a year ago I was starting to think wasn't going to happen for a long time: genuinely good visual novel conversions happening on a regular basis. It's still too early to call it a trend, but there was a time where I was getting worried that anime like Air and Higurashi were a fluke, since almost every other visual novel conversion I'd seen up to that stage were mediocre at best. But, in the last few seasons alone we've seen ef, Kimikiss, Clannad, Higurashi Kai and True Tears, all of which stand strong among the better titles in their respective genres.

As far as the gender argument is concerned, I think anime like Red Garden pretty much show that it's moot. There's nothing that says you can't have a gritty action series with an almost all female cast.
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Old 2008-01-26, 09:56   Link #25
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Do you think that the success of Noitamina has helped make it possible for other quirky shows like Oh! Edo Rocket, Dennou Coil, and Bartender to be produced recently as well? I don't have anywhere near the personal viewing history of many of you in this thread, so I can't really speak about trends that extend back much before 2000 or so.

Noitamina seems premised on the belief that anime made for a larger, and more mature, audience can still be successful. This strategy always made sense to me since the mature audience is much larger, and wealthier, than the otaku audience. (Let's not rehash in this context the "why the Japanese hate otaku" discussion that appears elsewhere in this forum.) Falling Japanese birth rates will make the strategy of appealing to older viewers more important as the otaku market shrinks numerically.

Not only do the Noitamina shows draw relatively large audiences despite their time slot and subject matter, they've also done well in the DVD marketplace. Mononoke averaged about 12,000 units per disc; Nodame and Moyashimon averaged 8-9,000. The initial disc sales for Nodame and Mononoke were over 15,000 units each. Those aren't CLANNAD numbers, but they're highly competitive with shows like Claymore or Darker than Black that have a lot more fans on AS than even Nodame.

(Dennou Coil has, sadly, done much worse than these series, averaging just about 3,000 copies per release. There are no figures available for Bartender or Rocket in eggplant's data.)

Also, like KholdStare and supahem mentioned, I began to notice the background scores for series more this year than in the past. That's what led me to hold a "Best Scores" competition this winter. I suspect that's a trend that will continue. Good music probably costs less than good animation, so it makes sense to hire an excellent composer to enhance a show.
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Old 2008-01-26, 10:35   Link #26
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I am not sure if the good background music is a very recent trend, considering there are series like Cowboy Bebop and Turn A Gundam which are almost ten years old now and have better soundtrack than 99% of today's series. People like Yoko Kanno, Yuki Kajiura and Toshihiko Sahashi have been making anime scores for quite a while. Recent or not, trend or not, I hope the quality of anime OSTs remains good for a long time.
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Old 2008-01-26, 10:44   Link #27
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no one said that good background music is a very recent trend, its just that most of the recent animes have neglected the musical parts and instead focused more on the storyline, animation, and *cough* SERVICE *cough*


cowboy bebop had a great musical ensemble, i liked the jazzy aspect of it, especially the first OP
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Old 2008-01-26, 16:01   Link #28
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I second the noitamina and autership suggestions. I also think it's nice to see more and more shows put more emphasis on interesting animation. Admittedly there are still in the minority as many anime is made for tv and there are precious few good animators in Japan but it's a great thing to see.
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Old 2008-01-26, 16:32   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
I second the noitamina and autership suggestions. I also think it's nice to see more and more shows put more emphasis on interesting animation. Admittedly there are still in the minority as many anime is made for tv and there are precious few good animators in Japan but it's a great thing to see.
Some TV Series these days are looking like OVA's in quality, that's a trend I think is good. One that stands out and I actually thought was an OVA at first just because of what they did with the animation was Macross Frontier. I still am having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that it's going to be a full TV series.

Lately a lot more studios have been stepping up the bar on the animation front. Among the top for me are Sunrise, Kyoani, Gainax and Studio Nue. Not just them though, other studios are stepping up to where they used to be, and may even reach their plateau soon enough. I'm starting to wonder if it's that the drawing software is getting better or if there are just more talents getting signed up.
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Old 2008-01-26, 18:30   Link #30
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Seeing all the talk about the so-called Golden Age ...

I'm must admit, I'm feeling a bit competent anime-wise only back to about 1990 maybe. One thing for sure, I don't want to go back to those times. I don't know much about the 70s and 80s (apart from children shows) but if there was a Golden Age back then, I'm failing to see it.

Maybe I'm biased, but anidb has the facts. Certainly, we have more quantity nowadays. According to my quick count, anidb lists 31 anime for 1977, 91 for 1987, 106 for 1997, and 221 anime for 2007. OK, nobody would deny that the number of anime has increased. So what about quality? Has the crap simply multiplied?

This is of course a more subjective question. Among the 40 anime of 10/2007, we have IMHO great stuff like Ghost Hound, Kaiji, Moyashimon, Minami-ke, or Genshiken 2. Sketchbook, Bamboo Blade, YUA 3, KimiKiss aren't bad either. Even Mokke, Ninomiya-kun, Shugo Chara are acceptable. And I don't expect Nasu and Appleseed to outright suck either. YMMV, and probably does, but I think that list is at least a diverse one, so you can't blame me to simply have jumped on the xyz genre train, dismissing all the other stuff, present or past.

Ten years back, and we have 17 October shows. Among them a classic like Berserk. Miyu wasn't bad, and Virus was ... bearable. And that's it.

October 1987? 11 shows, and not a single one that would interest me. Expanding the search to November and December, there is a least X Train, and a Hi no Tori. Maybe Dirty Pair, if I'm desperate.

October 1977? Don't ask

So bottom line, the Golden Age of anime is right now. All in all, anime has become more, better, and more diverse. That is the most positive trend in anime. When you're whining, you're whining from a comfortable position. If you see a golden age somewhere in the past this is most likely the outcome of mentally condensing a whole decade and comparing it to one single recent month, plus adding a lot of nostalgia.
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Old 2008-01-26, 19:36   Link #31
Sorrow-K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Do you think that the success of Noitamina has helped make it possible for other quirky shows like Oh! Edo Rocket, Dennou Coil, and Bartender to be produced recently as well? I don't have anywhere near the personal viewing history of many of you in this thread, so I can't really speak about trends that extend back much before 2000 or so.
I like this idea. It's tough to know if it's right, ie, if shows like Bartender and Dennou Coil were spawned out of an attempt to compete with Noitamina, or if the creators of all such shows simultaneously recognized a hole in the market for more mature and less otaku-targeting shows, but the result is a good one either way, and it's good to know such titles are achieving mild success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
Lately a lot more studios have been stepping up the bar on the animation front. Among the top for me are Sunrise, Kyoani, Gainax and Studio Nue. Not just them though, other studios are stepping up to where they used to be, and may even reach their plateau soon enough. I'm starting to wonder if it's that the drawing software is getting better or if there are just more talents getting signed up.
You forgot Madhouse. Madhouse are right up there with the best, IMO.
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Old 2008-01-26, 20:12   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Seeing all the talk about the so-called Golden Age ...

I'm must admit, I'm feeling a bit competent anime-wise only back to about 1990 maybe. One thing for sure, I don't want to go back to those times. I don't know much about the 70s and 80s (apart from children shows) but if there was a Golden Age back then, I'm failing to see it.

Maybe I'm biased, but anidb has the facts. Certainly, we have more quantity nowadays. According to my quick count, anidb lists 31 anime for 1977, 91 for 1987, 106 for 1997, and 221 anime for 2007. OK, nobody would deny that the number of anime has increased. So what about quality? Has the crap simply multiplied?

This is of course a more subjective question. Among the 40 anime of 10/2007, we have IMHO great stuff like Ghost Hound, Kaiji, Moyashimon, Minami-ke, or Genshiken 2. Sketchbook, Bamboo Blade, YUA 3, KimiKiss aren't bad either. Even Mokke, Ninomiya-kun, Shugo Chara are acceptable. And I don't expect Nasu and Appleseed to outright suck either. YMMV, and probably does, but I think that list is at least a diverse one, so you can't blame me to simply have jumped on the xyz genre train, dismissing all the other stuff, present or past.

Ten years back, and we have 17 October shows. Among them a classic like Berserk. Miyu wasn't bad, and Virus was ... bearable. And that's it.

October 1987? 11 shows, and not a single one that would interest me. Expanding the search to November and December, there is a least X Train, and a Hi no Tori. Maybe Dirty Pair, if I'm desperate.

October 1977? Don't ask

So bottom line, the Golden Age of anime is right now. All in all, anime has become more, better, and more diverse. That is the most positive trend in anime. When you're whining, you're whining from a comfortable position. If you see a golden age somewhere in the past this is most likely the outcome of mentally condensing a whole decade and comparing it to one single recent month, plus adding a lot of nostalgia.
My thoughts about this are a little bit different. I agree that the golden age of anime isn't way in the past, but I think that it is from 1999-2006. You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think that anime these days can compare to the ones in that time.
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Old 2008-01-26, 21:11   Link #33
Slice of Life
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
My thoughts about this are a little bit different. I agree that the golden age of anime isn't way in the past, but I think that it is from 1999-2006. You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think that anime these days can compare to the ones in that time.
When you say "from 1999-2006" I assume you see the peak somewhere around 02-04. At least I can't see a significant and sudden drop in quality from 2006 to 2007 (and even if there was, one could dismiss it as fluctuation). I wouldn't say that 2007 was definitely better than 2003. On such a short timespan (which is all "now" in my book compared to the 70s-80s) things become fuzzy and I would have to go back to anidb again and actually rate a significant sample of anime instead of just glancing over them. And even then, I wouldn't claim my findings to mean anything for anybody except myself. At the very least, I don't see a negative trend over the last few years. So yes, I think I disagree with you but that's more gut feeling than hard data. Ask me again in 2017.
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Old 2008-01-26, 21:32   Link #34
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87 had Kimagure Orange Road, Metal Armor Dragonar, Hokuto No Ken 2 and Wings of Wings of Honneamise. The era had it's standout series just like this one.

77 had the Uchuu Senkan Yamato Movie.

97 had Gundam Wing Endless Waltz, Yuusha Oh Gaogaigar, Pocket Monsters (Soon to be a monster franchise), Slayers Try, Mononoke Hime, Flame of Recca, End Of Evangelion, Jungle Taitei (New Movie), More Slayers, that Yamato parody....

Basically yeah, as he years go on the number of titles increased and with that the likelyhood of more that would catch peoples eyes. I think I've said before though that each age couldn't have existed as it did without the previous one.
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Old 2008-01-26, 21:38   Link #35
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Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
When you say "from 1999-2006" I assume you see the peak somewhere around 02-04. At least I can't see a significant and sudden drop in quality from 2006 to 2007 (and even if there was, one could dismiss it as fluctuation). I wouldn't say that 2007 was definitely better than 2003. On such a short timespan (which is all "now" in my book compared to the 70s-80s) things become fuzzy and I would have to go back to anidb again and actually rate a significant sample of anime instead of just glancing over them. And even then, I wouldn't claim my findings to mean anything for anybody except myself. At the very least, I don't see a negative trend over the last few years. So yes, I think I disagree with you but that's more gut feeling than hard data. Ask me again in 2017.
I had to include 2006 to include what I really call a masterpiece out of all those years, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu. And of course, I started 1999 to include the last half of Cowboy Bebop.
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Old 2008-01-26, 21:42   Link #36
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I had to include 2006 to include what I really call a masterpiece out of all those years, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu. And of course, I started 1999 to include the last half of Cowboy Bebop.
Those are the sole masterpieces you saw in all those years. Really?
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Old 2008-01-26, 21:56   Link #37
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Well I am not saying that 70's and 80's were the golden age (I still say it's the 90's for personal reasons), but I think the reason why it is consider the golden age, because there were lot of anime that were consider a masterpiece, and many revolutionary animes (though I suppose this statement is unfair to use for the current animes). Right now though there are lot of many animes that are good, but I really didn't see that anime that game me the wow factor of Gundam, Char's Counter Attack, Gunbuster, and Macross DYRL. Only anime that gave the wow factor recently was Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Though I understand your point and I like how anime has become diversed.

My personal favorite anime trend would be, Gattai! I just like it because I just love those combination sequence in anime .
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Old 2008-01-26, 22:04   Link #38
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My thoughts about this are a little bit different. I agree that the golden age of anime isn't way in the past, but I think that it is from 1999-2006. You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think that anime these days can compare to the ones in that time.

If there is a golden age of anime it would have to include 1998. The top 5 alone (that started in 1998):

1. Cowboy Bebop
2. Serial Experiments Lain
3. Trigun
4. His and Her Circumstances
5. Outlaw Star

Then you have continuing shows like Berserk.


As for whether the golden age is still going, it is too early to tell. That kind of thing takes years afterwards to become clear.


A trend I see is a lot of anime becoming more self referential. Referencing other anime, referencing anime cliches, referencing and using fanservice cliches, etc. This trend isn't always a bad thing, for example it can make for a great comedy, but hopefully it doesn't become too overdone.
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Old 2008-01-27, 00:08   Link #39
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Those are the sole masterpieces you saw in all those years. Really?
Yup. I rarely call anything a "masterpiece" unless I really think that they're masterpieces. By levels of enjoyment, they're not top on my lists, and the ones that are top on my lists I wouldn't call them masterpieces either. Those two anime are the ones that pop up in my mind immediately along with the word "masterpiece," so they are the most memorable I might say.

And I agree that it should include 1998 as well, since Cowboy Bebop did start in 1998. I think that 1999 had major changes in animation and art styles though.

EDIT: No no, I've seen more masterpieces between 1998-2006, but I just put down Cowboy Bebop and Suzumiya for 1998-1999 and 2006, respectively. There are more in-between.

Quote:
As for whether the golden age is still going, it is too early to tell. That kind of thing takes years afterwards to become clear.
It might be early to tell, but I've seen nothing in 2007 that I would consider on the same level as Cowboy Bebop and Suzumiya. Good candidates include Claymore, Nodame Cantabile, and Byousoku 5 Centimeter (of course, these are just my opinions, especially the last one), but they're not in the same league as the first two I mentioned. No I'm not a hardcore Haruhi fan or anything, but I do appreciate the series very much.
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Old 2008-01-27, 01:32   Link #40
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Some one had said that Noitamina has prompted the creation of shows somewhat outside the normal otaku realm of consumption. It's not impossible but I doubt theres any real correlation. After all, I think the big rise in shows made primarily for an otaku audience started in the 80s (particularly with niche OVAs) and really hit paydirt in the mid 90s on (OVA production went down, late night tv became otaku time).

I remember reading an article with Kazuhiro Furuhashi and Tow Ubukata (director and writer of Le Chevalier D'Eon) about the anime they set out to create. Furuhashi said that back when he was growing up, there was more "general" anime, citing World Masterpiece Theatre for example. "General" here means productions aimed at a wider less niche hardcore audience. NHK (station who did Denno Coil) seemed to be doing that with Twelve Kingdoms, Coil and Planetes. NTV has aired various late night anime that were popular with general viewers as well (Hajime no Ippo, Monster). I think that some creators notice the sheer rise in popularity of more "otaku" shows and want to make works to try and diverge from that.

Aside from my own tastes, I am interested more what creators and audiences would see as much more general, (but not the childish stuff like one piece, etc.) such is why I enjoy the Noitamina initiative by Fuji TV.

As for animation, well digital techniques and CGI work have come a long way, making many shows look worlds away then they did 15 years ago in terms of luster. Animation wise, well it's still scatter shot but a rise in concentrated proffesional animators means more work to look forward too, even outside of Ghibli. I.G. is a consistent pleaser. Gainax can has some good staff too, Gurren Laggan like or not has the best animation produced for a TV show, ive seen probably from any country in many years, (cant believe the wasted talent on Mahoromatic though, blech). Bones does some good stuff for tv, although I thought some of their later stuff was kinda meh animation wise compared to their ealier work. Madhouse can and will make awesome looking stuff (Kemonozume, Coil, Kon movies) as well. However, I find that outside of Ghibl, IG and kinda Bones/Gainax, great animation is facilitated by the individual and less the studio. Which is why although the vast majority of shows may have good rendering finish and maybe smooth frame rate, the movement/acting/drawing probably won't be anything to scream about.

I also agree that based off what i've seen and read in the history books, that the golden age of anime is probably NOW as opposed to the 80s. There just so much more inventiveness and diverse genres in both general and otaku anime circles. That's one thing that Japan has over us, even though it's really due to their manga culture.
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